Upgrade my Adler 69

[toxo]

When I bought my 69 I wasn't aware that they were designed primarily for binding and so have a forward and back feed dog instead of the oscillating feed dogs on most walking foot machines. This isn't usually a problem but occasionally the stitch length varies when riding over different thicknesses.

I'm completely lost on what is a clone of what and all you hear on here is Cowboy and Cobra but I'm in the UK so I'm asking the hive for European recommends. Preferably with presser feet that don't cost an arm and a leg. I don't do heavyweight leather, maybe 1/2inch at most but I'd also like it to be comfortable with V69. Maybe Brian@RockyAussies new needle plate is the answer here. TIA

[Constabulary]

Don´t know but maybe your feet are not lifting high enough but that can be adjusted on the rear side on the curve / cam.

If the major problem is the shorter stitch length when sewing over thicknesses (don´t know what sicknesses you sew over and how significant this is on your projects) I would say you will have that with any other triple feed / needle feed machine as well cause the needle bar rock frame has a high pivoting point and therefore you have a pendulum effect and the needle is entering an leaving the material always in a certain angle but never in 90°. The thicker the material the smaller the stitch length.

The only needle feed machine with a constant stitch length in all material thicknesses that I know of is the BUSMC #6HM (and similar machines) cause the needle enters the material always in a 90° angle. But that machine is probably an overkill for you - for me it was so I (sadly) sold it. Another option may be older drop feed + jump foot machines like Adler 5 / Singer 45K / 132K / 133K. But they have aggressive feed dogs and may mark the leather and many do not have reverse.

EDIT:

BTW - the Singer 108w is a triple feed too but with a different rock frame (little bit like the BUSMC #6) and the needle is entering and leaving the material in a 90° angle but it cannot sew 1/2" and has no reverse. If I was a sewing machine engineer I would scale up this thingy and add reverse

EDIT II:

if you want to upgrade from a class 69  I´d say an "affordable" machine could be a 341 Juki clone. You may look for "341 cylinder arm" machines in the UK. But I´m not sure if it would solve the "sewing over thicknesses / stitch length issue" - most likely not. But they use the standard Singer 111 type feet.

Interestingly I just figured they seem to sell (sold atm) for approx 1/2 price of the "known" clones on my side of the pond.

https://www.sewtex.de/SIRUBA-Naehtechnik-243/FREIARM-STEPPSTICHMASCHINEN--CYLINDER-BED-LOCKSTITCH-MACHINES-246/Cowboy-CB341--Cylinder-Bed-341-Sewing-Machine-1853.html

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Constabulary

[toxo]

13 hours ago, Constabulary said:

Don´t know but maybe your feet are not lifting high enough but that can be adjusted on the rear side on the curve / cam.

I'll look into that. I've been doing it by tightening the inner foot lower down the shaft. Can you show me the cam that wants adjusting?

If the major problem is the shorter stitch length when sewing over thicknesses (don´t know what sicknesses you sew over and how significant this is on your projects) I would say you will have that with any other triple feed / needle feed machine as well cause the needle bar rock frame has a high pivoting point and therefore you have a pendulum effect and the needle is entering an leaving the material always in a certain angle but never in 90°. The thicker the material the smaller the stitch length.

So can I compensate by changing the stitch length just before I get to the thicker layer?

The only needle feed machine with a constant stitch length in all material thicknesses that I know of is the BUSMC #6HM (and similar machines) cause the needle enters the material always in a 90° angle. But that machine is probably an overkill for you - for me it was so I (sadly) sold it. Another option may be older drop feed + jump foot machines like Adler 5 / Singer 45K / 132K / 133K. But they have aggressive feed dogs and may mark the leather and many do not have reverse.

EDIT:

BTW - the Singer 108w is a triple feed too but with a different rock frame (little bit like the BUSMC #6) and the needle is entering and leaving the material in a 90° angle but it cannot sew 1/2" and has no reverse. If I was a sewing machine engineer I would scale up this thingy and add reverse

EDIT II:

if you want to upgrade from a class 69  I´d say an "affordable" machine could be a 341 Juki clone. You may look for "341 cylinder arm" machines in the UK. But I´m not sure if it would solve the "sewing over thicknesses / stitch length issue" - most likely not. But they use the standard Singer 111 type feet.

I guess paying £100 for presser feet for the 69 Is cheaper than starting again for the same thing.

Interestingly I just figured they seem to sell (sold atm) for approx 1/2 price of the "known" clones on my side of the pond.

https://www.sewtex.de/SIRUBA-Naehtechnik-243/FREIARM-STEPPSTICHMASCHINEN--CYLINDER-BED-LOCKSTITCH-MACHINES-246/Cowboy-CB341--Cylinder-Bed-341-Sewing-Machine-1853.html

Thanks Folker.

 

 

[RockyAussie]

23 hours ago, toxo said:

When I bought my 69 I wasn't aware that they were designed primarily for binding and so have a forward and back feed dog instead of the oscillating feed dogs on most walking foot machines. This isn't usually a problem but occasionally the stitch length varies when riding over different thicknesses.

I'm completely lost on what is a clone of what and all you hear on here is Cowboy and Cobra but I'm in the UK so I'm asking the hive for European recommends. Preferably with presser feet that don't cost an arm and a leg. I don't do heavyweight leather, maybe 1/2inch at most but I'd also like it to be comfortable with V69. Maybe Brian@RockyAussies new needle plate is the answer here. TIA

Hey @toxo I am in the process of editing up a video that shows a little where I am using the Adler 69 to sew some handles and my new Cowboy 246 which came in just after I finished stitching the handles. The 246 is a copy of the Juki 246 and has the advantage of the large M bobbin as well as a reciprocating dog foot feed. The end cover for the bobbin shuttle area is a coupe of mm wider than the Adler 69 but with a little grinding and polishing I have them pretty close in usefulness. The big machines that I designed the narrow needle plate set for have a far larger diameter at the bobbin end and I doubt they would suit your purpose for several reasons, one being that the smallest leather point needle for them is a 23 (160) and any threads under the 138 (20m) will not work so well. Following the link to the site that Constabulary put above you can see a version of the 246 on this other page of that supplier if it helps -  https://www.sewtex.de/SIRUBA-Naehtechnik-243/FREIARM-STEPPSTICHMASCHINEN--CYLINDER-BED-LOCKSTITCH-MACHINES-246/Cylinder-Bed-246--Pfaff-335--1-needle-Cylinder-Lockstitch-Machine-with-Unison-Feed.html?XTCsid=933fc58973a36148c018499a1fd2fd50

Note that lower down on that page they show a DCS Juki in action.

in the next few days I hope to have a video showing one of the bags shown below being stitched  and showing why having a small cylinder is handy for stitching around the tight gusset sections.

246 bobbin on left 69 bobbin on right

[RockyAussie]

I forgot to mention that this machine takes the very common Singer 111 feet that are VERY affordable and come in more variations than you could imagine. Other than the standard feet here are a few of the other feet versions I decided to get with this machine when I bought it.

Edited April 3, 2022 by RockyAussie
picture of feet

[toxo]

17 minutes ago, RockyAussie said:

I forgot to mention that this machine takes the very common Singer 111 feet that are VERY affordable and come in more variations than you could imagine.

Thanks Brian. I think Folker has convinced me that I'd be no better off. The small bobbin hasn't bothered me thus far, I guess the biggest problem is one I'll have with any machine in that I can't set it up for one purpose and leave it. I'm always trying different things and changing thread/needles.

Strangely enough the last thing that pissed me off was trying to do a strap/handle just like yours in that pic. Two layers of turned leather with foam in between but I hadn't made them as wide as yours and the damned presser foot was riding on the edge of the foam and it didn't like it. We live and learn, I just wish I'd lived and learned on a handle instead of a crossbody strap

[RockyAussie]

5 hours ago, toxo said:

Thanks Brian. I think Folker has convinced me that I'd be no better off. The small bobbin hasn't bothered me thus far, I guess the biggest problem is one I'll have with any machine in that I can't set it up for one purpose and leave it. I'm always trying different things and changing thread/needles.

Strangely enough the last thing that pissed me off was trying to do a strap/handle just like yours in that pic. Two layers of turned leather with foam in between but I hadn't made them as wide as yours and the damned presser foot was riding on the edge of the foam and it didn't like it. We live and learn, I just wish I'd lived and learned on a handle instead of a crossbody strap

Here is the video where you can see me doing my best to stay on the edge of the handle with the Adler. I think it will be easier with a zipper foot set perhaps ground back a little instead of the back foot I made myself from scratch. In there you can also see some of me stitching one of the gussets in place.

 

[Constabulary]

7 hours ago, toxo said:

I'll look into that. I've been doing it by tightening the inner foot lower down the shaft. Can you show me the cam that wants adjusting?

should be mentioned in the manual - (see picture) loosen the thumb screw and repositioning. This will alter the foot lift - highest foot lift in upper position lowest foot lift in lower position.

7 hours ago, toxo said:

So can I compensate by changing the stitch length just before I get to the thicker layer?

I don´t know how significant the difference in the stitch length is but to be honest I don´t think this is practical.

[Wizcrafts]

10 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

Here is the video where you can see me doing my best to stay on the edge of the handle with the Adler. I think it will be easier with a zipper foot set perhaps ground back a little instead of the back foot I made myself from scratch.

I use a 1/2 inch piping foot for the edges of welted straps. If your machine lifts high enough you could even use a 5/8 inch piping set. It sure beats fighting with a right toe foot. 

[toxo]

2 minutes ago, Wizcrafts said:

I use a 1/2 inch piping foot for the edges of welted straps. If your machine lifts high enough you could even use a 5/8 inch piping set. It sure beats fighting with a right toe foot. 

Yes Wiz, I've learned my lesson. I have all those feet that @RockyAussie mentions for my flatbed D/Adler 239 inc all the piping and welting feet but buying the same set for the 69 would require a mortgage.

[shoepatcher]

Check Kwok Hing on line.  They are in Singapore and make feet for Adler 69 and lots of other things  Good quality and you can order direct from them.

glenn

[toxo]

10 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

Here is the video where you can see me doing my best to stay on the edge of the handle with the Adler. I think it will be easier with a zipper foot set perhaps ground back a little instead of the back foot I made myself from scratch. In there you can also see some of me stitching one of the gussets in place.

Bear with me Brian, I'm still learning a lot of this. I tried to be smart and when designing a handle and a strap for this huge beach bag/tote I had the idea that it would be more comfortable if it wasn't flat underneath so I tried to sandwich two layers of 6mm foam between two layers of turned and stitched leather.

Front

Back

As you can see I was having trouble from the get go (A lot of it down to thread) but a big part of the trouble was because I didn't make it wide enough so the first run of stitches pushed the foam (Or rather the out foot did) slightly over to the other side and so the second run had even less room. Maybe I'll try something on the flatbed next time.

[toxo]

11 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

Here is the video where you can see me doing my best to stay on the edge of the handle with the Adler. I think it will be easier with a zipper foot set perhaps ground back a little instead of the back foot I made myself from scratch. In there you can also see some of me stitching one of the gussets in place.

 

What is that blue stiffener you're using? Do you always cover it with the snake/croc etc?

And I do believe my eyes are deceiving me . Surely Wild Harry would've made a double ring to avoid the two straps chafing?

[RockyAussie]

6 hours ago, toxo said:

Bear with me Brian, I'm still learning a lot of this. I tried to be smart and when designing a handle and a strap for this huge beach bag/tote I had the idea that it would be more comfortable if it wasn't flat underneath so I tried to sandwich two layers of 6mm foam between two layers of turned and stitched leather.

Front

Back

As you can see I was having trouble from the get go (A lot of it down to thread) but a big part of the trouble was because I didn't make it wide enough so the first run of stitches pushed the foam (Or rather the out foot did) slightly over to the other side and so the second run had even less room. Maybe I'll try something on the flatbed next time.

Looks to me that your presser feet are not ideally shaped for the foam edge to needle distance. I don't think it will work well on a flatbed as the foam on the bottom side will be pushing up and stopping the strap from laying flat enough to give reliable stitching. The stitches would be likely to miss more as well. If you could load a picture of the strap sitting in place on the machine might help to give a better idea on getting some suggestions. The good thing about using the cylinder is that the swell of the foam can be off the edge of the needle plate and allow the needle to come down squarely.

 

[RockyAussie]

6 hours ago, toxo said:

What is that blue stiffener you're using? Do you always cover it with the snake/croc etc?

There is no blue stiffener used only blue lining leather and the blue leather trim on the gusset. On the gusset edge there is a stiffener inside which has the outside leather folded over it. In the past I have used a flexible cardboard there but these days have gone to using a shoe heel grip material (Aquiline) http://www.texon.com/consumer-applications/texon-aquiline/

which has better flex and strength as well.

6 hours ago, toxo said:

And I do believe my eyes are deceiving me . Surely Wild Harry would've made a double ring to avoid the two straps chafing?

All of the fittings used have a double ring for separate attachment of the shoulder strap. I have never had or heard of any issue with regards to any chafing and I have been making this model for over 25 years now.

[RockyAussie]

7 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

I use a 1/2 inch piping foot for the edges of welted straps. If your machine lifts high enough you could even use a 5/8 inch piping set. It sure beats fighting with a right toe foot. 

Thanks @Wizcrafts Now that I have the Cowboy 246 which uses the Singer feet I can afford to give that a try. If not the CB 6900 lifts a little higher (1/2" as against 3/8") and has that beautiful square drive AND uses the Singer feet as well. I do like the smaller cylinder diameter of the CB 246 when it comes to doing the gussets though. I will let you know how it goes on the next batch.

[toxo]

40 minutes ago, RockyAussie said:

Looks to me that your presser feet are not ideally shaped for the foam edge to needle distance. I don't think it will work well on a flatbed as the foam on the bottom side will be pushing up and stopping the strap from laying flat enough to give reliable stitching. The stitches would be likely to miss more as well. If you could load a picture of the strap sitting in place on the machine might help to give a better idea on getting some suggestions. The good thing about using the cylinder is that the swell of the foam can be off the edge of the needle plate and allow the needle to come down squarely.

 

First of all I'll make the strap wider, if that doesn't work then I'll take out one layer of foam and try to get a good backstitch so I can turn it over so the foam is across the fingers.

[RockyAussie]

2 minutes ago, toxo said:

so the foam is across the fingers

Huh????

[toxo]

1 minute ago, RockyAussie said:

Huh????

With just one layer of foam I should be able to do it on the flatbed and if there's a pronounced bump Just make the bump to be the underside so softer on the fingers. The two sides are identical apart from any bump. And it is just a tote and I'm still working things out.