Long Hand-stitched runs - Thread Management?

[chuck123wapati]

2 hours ago, Matt S said:

As others have said, having more than a fathom of thread "in hand" at any one time leads to increased issues with tangling, unravelling, having to rewax the thread periodically, fraying and discolouration. I've done it, it's doable, but not my preferred way of working. Doubled-up stitches at changeover isn't hugely noticeable IMHO, are "honest" artefacts of how the item was manufactured, and it's often possible to hide them. On shorter belts it's also possible to start at the point of the belt with /two/ fathoms of thread. Pierce the centre hole and pull both threads through so they're crossing over equally, then start sewing down one side of the belt with the ends of opposite threads. Once you've reached the end start again at the point with the second pair of ends and sew towards the buckle. Of course this requires being able to sew equally neatly both towards and away from you.
 

I've been hearing this a long time. Ron Edwards touches on how the idea probably became common, with saddlers directly comparing seams machined with skinny, slippery, stretchy synthetic thread (for light articles, rugs etc.) against chunky linen saddle- or back-stitched seams (for heavy and working articles) in the second half of the 20th century. I suspect also there's some mixup between lock-stitched seams and chain-stitched (which definitely do just "zip up" when you pull the right thread).

Without meaning to sound rude or confrontational, how much experience do you have with threads broken on stitched leather articles? I ask as I used to believe the same thing. Now, with the experience of examining hundreds of such broken threads (through accident, wear or deliberate cutting) I can tell you it doesn't work like that.

It is my experience (through direct study and asking the experience of professional leather tradespeople) that a "correctly" saddle stitched seam sewn in a decent thread with a grabby/hardening coad (not bloody beeswax or candle wax) /might/ be stronger than a lock-stitched seam... but I see precious little of that being done these days! For almost all practical purposes, when compared apples-for-apples, lock-stitch machine sewing is at least just as strong and durable as imperfectly sewn saddle stitching. I've handled plenty of items where one or more threads has been cut by wear or accident. Some (like the shaft tugs which hang above my desk) have the surface portions of both threads entirely worn away, yet are still solid. Similarly I've had to pick out plenty of machine-sewn work, that simply had to be cut and pulled out one or two stitches at a time -- same as saddle stitched. Others, saddle stitched even 100+years ago in linen thread, will disappear as soon as one of the stitches parts ways. The real difference in "staying power" in these cases is from tight holes (just big enough to admit the threads before they close back up, which is best achieved with a sharp awl immediately before each stitch, or failing that the smallest leather-point machine needle that will work), tight stitches, thread (preferably linen) saturated with proper drying stickywax (hardball or polymerising liquid), and a design that minimises reliance just on the thread to hold the thing together.

Very interesting I have to agree  and add a lot of the damaged stitching i have repaired  has been mainly due to rot or fatigue from stretching bending etc. Neither stitch method  would matter those cases either. i have never seen a test but I'm sure some have been done on the actual strength of the stitch method itself. Safety companies here have tested stitching on load bearing equipment but i don't know what kind of stitch was ever tested.

[Handstitched]

On 6/5/2022 at 3:39 AM, tsunkasapa said:

I pull off what I can span with my arms spread wide.

Thats what I do on long runs,  and go back a few stitches with the new thread, simple     Once finished, I gently burn the ends of the thread, go over the stitches with a spacing/ stitching wheel.  You can barely see where the join is.

HS

[johnnydb]

16 hours ago, Matt S said:

As others have said, having more than a fathom of thread "in hand" at any one time leads to increased issues with tangling, unravelling, having to rewax the thread periodically, fraying and discolouration. I've done it, it's doable, but not my preferred way of working. Doubled-up stitches at changeover isn't hugely noticeable IMHO, are "honest" artefacts of how the item was manufactured, and it's often possible to hide them. On shorter belts it's also possible to start at the point of the belt with /two/ fathoms of thread. Pierce the centre hole and pull both threads through so they're crossing over equally, then start sewing down one side of the belt with the ends of opposite threads. Once you've reached the end start again at the point with the second pair of ends and sew towards the buckle. Of course this requires being able to sew equally neatly both towards and away from you.
 

I've been hearing this a long time. Ron Edwards touches on how the idea probably became common, with saddlers directly comparing seams machined with skinny, slippery, stretchy synthetic thread (for light articles, rugs etc.) against chunky linen saddle- or back-stitched seams (for heavy and working articles) in the second half of the 20th century. I suspect also there's some mixup between lock-stitched seams and chain-stitched (which definitely do just "zip up" when you pull the right thread).

Without meaning to sound rude or confrontational, how much experience do you have with threads broken on stitched leather articles? I ask as I used to believe the same thing. Now, with the experience of examining hundreds of such broken threads (through accident, wear or deliberate cutting) I can tell you it doesn't work like that.

It is my experience (through direct study and asking the experience of professional leather tradespeople) that a "correctly" saddle stitched seam sewn in a decent thread with a grabby/hardening coad (not bloody beeswax or candle wax) /might/ be stronger than a lock-stitched seam... but I see precious little of that being done these days! For almost all practical purposes, when compared apples-for-apples, lock-stitch machine sewing is at least just as strong and durable as imperfectly sewn saddle stitching. I've handled plenty of items where one or more threads has been cut by wear or accident. Some (like the shaft tugs which hang above my desk) have the surface portions of both threads entirely worn away, yet are still solid. Similarly I've had to pick out plenty of machine-sewn work, that simply had to be cut and pulled out one or two stitches at a time -- same as saddle stitched. Others, saddle stitched even 100+years ago in linen thread, will disappear as soon as one of the stitches parts ways. The real difference in "staying power" in these cases is from tight holes (just big enough to admit the threads before they close back up, which is best achieved with a sharp awl immediately before each stitch, or failing that the smallest leather-point machine needle that will work), tight stitches, thread (preferably linen) saturated with proper drying stickywax (hardball or polymerising liquid), and a design that minimises reliance just on the thread to hold the thing together.

On my tool bag I have some broken stitches right in the middle of a seam.  (Too many construction sites where my bag takes abuse) 

And unless you look...you can't find them.  But as you say it's just heavy wear and abuse that caused the stitches to break.  But the bag is holding up great. 

I've seen plenty of leather tool pouches not hold up so well when the stitching begins to fail.