Common Leather Myths?

[nstarleather]

Hi folks, posted this over one Reddit and it was fun to hear what people have heard over the years from customers or even other leatherworkers...let's talk misconceptions and myths common to our craft!

 

I'm sure over the years a lot of us have gotten customers who will insist on something they've heard on the internet about a particular type of leather is true, insisting that I do or don't use a specific type of leather because of something they've read.

Here are a few that I hear frequently some are very egregious, others just assumptions that are more or less harmless:

• Full grain leather is the full thickness of the original hide. (probably the most demonstrably false of the bunch).

• Genuine is a specific kind of (low quality) leather

• Leather that has a light edge isn't fully tanned

• "x" type of leather is the best (veg-tan, full grain, bridle, CXL, etc...we all know there are a lot of good leathers)

• All veg tan is natural veg (not that people say it but they get confused if I show them a "normal" leather like Essex or Dublin that happens to be veg).

Anyway those are a few I've heard...one bonus one I heard just this week: "You wouldn't want to use veg-tan for a backpack because it will bleed color"...

Obviously some of these have a grain of truth that got exaggerated.

Which ones have you heard that bother you?

[Tugadude]

2 hours ago, nstarleather said:

grain of truth

I see what you did there!

[nstarleather]

56 minutes ago, Tugadude said:

I see what you did there!

What's your fav?  Some of the ones mentioned on Reddit besides these was the idea the leather goods last 50 or 100 years...things wear out. 15-20 is about as good as you'll get for most items that see everyday use. 

[Tugadude]

Don't really have any favorites, but I guess the one I see abused the most is when something is advertised as genuine leather.  Of course it may be, they aren't lying, but they are taking advantage (to a degree) of the public's lack of knowledge.  At least it seems that way to me.

 

This is a pretty good description from businessinsider.com...

Genuine leather

Genuine leather doesn't just mean that the product is made of real leather (which it is), but it also means it is the lowest quality of all products made out of real leather. Basically, you should read it as: "At least it's genuine leather."

Genuine leather generally doesn't last as long or look as nice as higher-quality leather. You'll typically find it in belts from mall stores, shoes from lower-priced department stores, and bags or other goods in the lower price range.

Goods marked as genuine leather will be several layers of low-quality leather bonded together with glue and then painted to look uniform. It's made from what is left over when the other, higher grades are stripped away for pricier projects.

[nstarleather]

1 hour ago, Tugadude said:

Don't really have any favorites, but I guess the one I see abused the most is when something is advertised as genuine leather.  Of course it may be, they aren't lying, but they are taking advantage (to a degree) of the public's lack of knowledge.  At least it seems that way to me.

 

This is a pretty good description from businessinsider.com...

Genuine leather

Genuine leather doesn't just mean that the product is made of real leather (which it is), but it also means it is the lowest quality of all products made out of real leather. Basically, you should read it as: "At least it's genuine leather."

Genuine leather generally doesn't last as long or look as nice as higher-quality leather. You'll typically find it in belts from mall stores, shoes from lower-priced department stores, and bags or other goods in the lower price range.

Goods marked as genuine leather will be several layers of low-quality leather bonded together with glue and then painted to look uniform. It's made from what is left over when the other, higher grades are stripped away for pricier projects.

While I agree that companies will trick people, they can do it with "full grain" as well...full grain just means it's not been sanded...were you to toss out all other "quality factors" you can make full grain pretty cheaply, which is why you'll see it more an more in mass produced goods. 

Genuine as a low quality leather is actually a myth too...or at least a huge over simplification. 

 

 The idea that "genuine" is some specific low grade/quality/tier is actually my least favorite myth because it's so common and even people who should know get tricked because it's repeated so much. 

 

So NO, not everything marked Genuine will be layers of low quality leather...yes sometimes that's the case but it's not specifically what "genuine" means.  The "leather" they describe in that article is actually called a "finished split".

 

  Both Horween and SB Foot say it just means "real" :

https://www.thetanneryrow.com/leather101/2016/9/8/moksha-sample-blog-post-01

https://imgur.com/a/Tdtbjge

Call up a tannery, you can't buy anything just called "genuine leather"...they'll give you a blank confused stare. 

[Tugadude]

But, and there's always a but.  I found the following article which distinguishes between how the term "genuine leather" is viewed in the U.K.

GENUINE vs. FULL GRAIN?

As a British company, we find ‘genuine leather’ often gets lost in translation between the UK and the USA. In the States, ‘genuine’ refers to leather that undergoes some or several layers of extra treatment. Found beneath the surface of the top, full-grain outer hide, this layer is typically split apart and bound together to mimic the properties of high quality leather. However, this layer has less memory and doesn’t hold its shape so well. So, although ‘genuine leather’ derives from the same cow hide as full-grain and is still technically real leather, it’s known to be cheaper quality.

However, in the UK, the terms ‘genuine’ and ‘full-grain’ are interchangeable. They both refer to the same top quality level of leather, so whilst ‘genuine leather’ has become common code for ‘cheap’ across the pond, it means the total opposite here in Britain.

For us, full-grain and genuine leather both represent the entire top grain layer. Known to be the strongest part of the animal’s hide, this leather is durable and holds its shape. Full-grain leather is also typically left in a natural state – which means branding, scars and any imperfections from the animal’s hide often show up. These blemishes affect the final appearance and even the desirability of the product, so companies will often reject sub-quality hide in favour of blemish-free stock. This factors into the final cost of the product, which explains why a smooth, flawless, full-grain leather item is generally the most expensive to invest in.

 

Edit: The quote above is from The British Belt Company

Edited September 1, 2022 by Tugadude

[nstarleather]

25 minutes ago, Tugadude said:

But, and there's always a but.  I found the following article which distinguishes between how the term "genuine leather" is viewed in the U.K.

GENUINE vs. FULL GRAIN?

As a British company, we find ‘genuine leather’ often gets lost in translation between the UK and the USA. In the States, ‘genuine’ refers to leather that undergoes some or several layers of extra treatment. Found beneath the surface of the top, full-grain outer hide, this layer is typically split apart and bound together to mimic the properties of high quality leather. However, this layer has less memory and doesn’t hold its shape so well. So, although ‘genuine leather’ derives from the same cow hide as full-grain and is still technically real leather, it’s known to be cheaper quality.

However, in the UK, the terms ‘genuine’ and ‘full-grain’ are interchangeable. They both refer to the same top quality level of leather, so whilst ‘genuine leather’ has become common code for ‘cheap’ across the pond, it means the total opposite here in Britain.

For us, full-grain and genuine leather both represent the entire top grain layer. Known to be the strongest part of the animal’s hide, this leather is durable and holds its shape. Full-grain leather is also typically left in a natural state – which means branding, scars and any imperfections from the animal’s hide often show up. These blemishes affect the final appearance and even the desirability of the product, so companies will often reject sub-quality hide in favour of blemish-free stock. This factors into the final cost of the product, which explains why a smooth, flawless, full-grain leather item is generally the most expensive to invest in.

 

Edit: The quote above is from The British Belt Company

So once again the Brits got it right… 

In the USA the negative connotation has a lot to do with a viral video that said as much and a corresponding “Leather 101” that was posted on the video author’s site.  That 101 got copy/pasted into tons of other fashion blogs and here we are today.

Back in the day genuine was a positive.  Here’s a blog post I did some years back:

https://nstarleather.wordpress.com/2017/05/16/genuine-leather-has-become-a-4-letter-word/

[fredk]

My main hate is the myth that 'ready rivets' are not strong and will pull apart easily. Not so in my 22 years of experience

Sewing with a sewing machine is not proper leather working/crafting & sewing machine sewing is not as good as hand sewing. Proper hand sewing can only be done using a hog's bristle

Brass buckles (or other brass hardware) will make the leather rot

If I/you/we make a historical replica very neat and tidy, with good sewing, neat edges, good carving or stamping, its not 'real' - the ancients, the Greeks, Romans, Corinthians, Chinese, Mongolians, Vikings, Persians, Medieval Europeans, Victorian age Europeans & Americans . . . . . .  never made things as good as that, they didn't know how to

Chrome tanned leather will cause cancer to anyone who uses a lot of it, either as a leather crafter or a wearer

Chrome tanned leather takes hundreds of years to decompose and it pollutes the environment with heavy metals (chromium)

[nstarleather]

2 hours ago, fredk said:

My main hate is the myth that 'ready rivets' are not strong and will pull apart easily. Not so in my 22 years of experience

Sewing with a sewing machine is not proper leather working/crafting & sewing machine sewing is not as good as hand sewing. Proper hand sewing can only be done using a hog's bristle

Brass buckles (or other brass hardware) will make the leather rot

If I/you/we make a historical replica very neat and tidy, with good sewing, neat edges, good carving or stamping, its not 'real' - the ancients, the Greeks, Romans, Corinthians, Chinese, Mongolians, Vikings, Persians, Medieval Europeans, Victorian age Europeans & Americans . . . . . .  never made things as good as that, they didn't know how to

Chrome tanned leather will cause cancer to anyone who uses a lot of it, either as a leather crafter or a wearer

Chrome tanned leather takes hundreds of years to decompose and it pollutes the environment with heavy metals (chromium)

Those all great and I’ve heard versions of them all.  I especially think that one about historical stuff is a good one…anyone who have been to a museum know how many things form days long past were made with a real artistry and attention to detail…just because leather doesn’t age as well as metal and jewels doesn’t mean the work wasn’t done with great care.

[Ed in Tx]

How about automakers that say their vehicles have "leather seats" when in actuality the seats are really bonded leather. one of those technicality things I guess.

[nstarleather]

Just now, Ed in Tx said:

How about automakers that say their vehicles have "leather seats" when in actuality the seats are really bonded leather. one of those technicality things I guess.

Supposed disclose "bonded" with most products but I'm sure they figure ways around it.  Lots of car makers also do real leather on the "seat part" but all the sides and back are synthetic, which is not good long term. 

[billybopp]

13 hours ago, nstarleather said:

Supposed disclose "bonded" with most products but I'm sure they figure ways around it.  Lots of car makers also do real leather on the "seat part" but all the sides and back are synthetic, which is not good long term. 

Who can ever forget "Rich Corinthian Leather" ... 

 

 

[nstarleather]

6 minutes ago, billybopp said:

Who can ever forget "Rich Corinthian Leather" ... 

 

 

That voice is unforgettable 

[Handstitched]

19 hours ago, Tugadude said:

Don't really have any favorites, but I guess the one I see abused the most is when something is advertised as genuine leather.  Of course it may be, they aren't lying, but they are taking advantage (to a degree) of the public's lack of knowledge.  At least it seems that way to me.

Ditto. 

25 minutes ago, nstarleather said:

That voice is unforgettable 

' The Wrath Of Khan' springs to mind  . Perhaps Captain Kirk can launch an attack on the leather  industry ?  Launch a torpedo at the shonks  ??? 

HS

[fredk]

Here's 3 minutes 33 seconds you'll never get back

 

[Tugadude]

I wasted more time on more trivial pursuits than that.  Videos such as that take an incredible amount of time and effort to create.  I remember observing a friend in high school create a short animation video with clay figures and it was like watching paint dry.  The end result was pretty cool though!

[Sheilajeanne]

7 hours ago, nstarleather said:

That voice is unforgettable 

He is sorely missed!   Wonderful actor - that first scene he did in Wrath of Khan was nearly 10 minutes long, and he did the whole thing in just one take! He kept fit by working out throughout most of his life, which led many people to wonder if the impressive muscles he showed on his bare chest in Khan were real (they were). He was 61 years old at the time, but in very good shape physically. Unfortunately, a horseback riding accident he suffered in a much earlier movie permanently injured his back, and he was confined to a wheelchair for a number of years before his death in 2009.

He never got the credit he deserved, due to being a Latino. 

 

Edited September 2, 2022 by Sheilajeanne

[nstarleather]

4 hours ago, Sheilajeanne said:

He never got the credit he deserved, due to being a Latino. 

 

It’s crazy how syndicated television came from a Latino, I’m amazed how much Spanish there was in I Love Lucy, but by the time I was a kid, there was a lot less and like no Cubans on TV.   
Now you see Spanish more but it’s a recent thing.

I’m not Latino but my wife is Colombian and I’ve learned the language.

[Sheilajeanne]

Yeah, Jay Hernandez is one of the first Latinos to get a starring role in a series (the new Magnum, P.I.) since Ricky Ricardo.  He even joked about it during the first season, when he tells Rick to stay on the boat, because "Sharks prefer white meat." 

 

If you want to see Montalban's acting chops, here he is as Khan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7bExIrjxRc&t=7s&ab_channel=RussellB. This is only a small part of that opening scene, which concludes with Khan inserting the Ceti eel babies into Chekov and the other man's ears.

 

[tsunkasapa]

"He vexes me!"

[Handstitched]

18 hours ago, fredk said:

Here's 3 minutes 33 seconds you'll never get back

I seemed to have started something here...OOPS!! sorry 'bout that . 

Yep, watched that a few times over the years , it  sticks in your mind.  Ironically , I'm watching the OS all over again. I have a TV and a DVD player in my workshop . 

Aaaaaanyway.....

Back on topic.

Leather myths??  Not so much a myth, but more of  a 'beef' that p*sses  me off...."Genuine Leather" labels on belts that often  have cardboard as a filler in between , and they're sold  for $10 ???? get real !!!!!! 

 

[fredk]

$10 ? that's cheap. I've seen them in men's fashion shops for as much as £50. Not only card filler but also that plasticky smooth finish. No.1 son was going to buy one at £35 but asked me first about them. I made him a decent belt

[nstarleather]

4 hours ago, fredk said:

$10 ? that's cheap. I've seen them in men's fashion shops for as much as £50. Not only card filler but also that plasticky smooth finish. No.1 son was going to buy one at £35 but asked me first about them. I made him a decent belt

I don't normally make belts but because we're a leather shop in a small town we keep a bunch of Weaver blanks to make belts for locals...I see an Amazing amount of Walmart belts that have failed after barely any use. 

5 hours ago, Handstitched said:

 

Leather myths??  Not so much a myth, but more of  a 'beef' that p*sses  me off...."Genuine Leather" labels on belts that often  have cardboard as a filler in between , and they're sold  for $10 ???? get real !!!!!! 

 

The "genuine leather" one gets me on both sides of the myth...both the idea that the public at large don't understand that "genuine" doesn't actually mean anything in terms of quality and the other side of the coin that "genuine" means a specific low quality leather.  

There are plenty of companies and crafters who use the word "genuinely" just to mean real...I see it all the time on Reddit:  Some person usually from Eastern Europe or another non-english area posts something they've made that's obviously a very nice hight quality leather and says "I made a genuine leather 'x'" and a bunch of people who don't know better say "but "genuine" is the second worst grade of leather."     You also have Red Wing Heritage using it on nice full grain boots and Alden stamping it on their insoles...

We also got to get away with the idea the full grain is always good as well...there is a such thing as cheap full grain.  One company that people have commented to me about since I started trying to debunk both genuine and full grain is this one: https://slidebelts.com/collections/belts

You can see they offer belts in genuine, top grain and full grain leather...do you think someone doing mass production is sourcing from different tanneries and that the full grain is actually the good stuff?  I've read experiences that support that the "full grain" they use doesn't hold up.   If it's super-thin or heavily painted it doesn't matter all that much that it's full grain. 

[Tugadude]

Seems there's room for the leather industry to get together and clean up the description of grades in order to help eliminate confusion.  Adopting a global system of standards would go a long way towards helping people understand what they are buying.

But, people who want to will always be able to find ways to deceive consumers.  That part will never be fixed.

[nstarleather]

39 minutes ago, Tugadude said:

Seems there's room for the leather industry to get together and clean up the description of grades in order to help eliminate confusion.  Adopting a global system of standards would go a long way towards helping people understand what they are buying.

But, people who want to will always be able to find ways to deceive consumers.  That part will never be fixed.

I agree that getting basic definitions established legally would be great.  Full grain means "x".  Genuine means "y."  One that I go back and forth on is whether leather that's just been embossed with a pattern is full grain (if it hasn't been sanded)...SB Foot considers their embossed leather to be full grain. 

 

Unfortunately a true grading scale of quality is simply impossible because there are tons of different factors...this isn't something that will have 4 different characteristics that you can pick out to judge quality.  There are dozens of things done at the tannery that will make a leather good or not....then you have you intended use:  I love W & C Bridle leather but I challenge anyone on this site to make me a pair of gloves from it.    Horween's Chromexcel or SB Foots Copper Rough and Tough are great, but a couch made from them would leave your close waxy and stained.  I soft deer skin but it's not going into my heavy work belt...

There's also the fact that you could have lots of different leathers that are the "same" when it comes to all the descriptive words but that are better or worse depending on the tannery.  Lots of places sell leather that is meant to imitate Horween's Chromexcel and from a descriptive point of view they might be waxy pull up leathers that are combination tanned but they aren't the same  as actual CXL.   A tannery could make a firm tempered veg-tan treated "the same" as W&C Bridle but it wouldn't be...

It's like how you can "grade" beef, but you can't really grade an entire meal at a restaurant because some many things happen after the beef gets graded that the original grade plays a part but it's not really the most important.  Is it seasoned properly?  Cooked properly?  What's the preferred cooking style, could that change depending on the chef or the customer's mood?  How about  presentation?   There's also what you feel like at a given moment:  I love a fancy meal at a premium place but if I've got to pick it up on my lunch break, I'll have to make another choice.  

So there are tons of different ways to make a leather great or terrible and full grain or not is just one of those ways.