Awl size?

[hickok55]

For sewing my chaps I'm using Saddlers Harness Needles size 17(2/0), which size awl would go the best with that size needle?

These are my options

[Gezzer]

I use a 2" for everything , I didn't realize that there might be different sizes as far  as cut width . Learn something new everyday if I pay attention !

[Tugadude]

Length only matters if you are going through very thick leather.  You'll find that for most use the shorter ones are better because the shorter the blade, the easier to keep straight, perpendicular to the leather.  My favorite awl only has about 3/4" projecting from the haft and that's fine with me.

The more important measurement in my opinion is the width.  And on top of that, the concept of what the awl is supposed to accomplish.

In general terms, you want the smallest possible hole that allows you to get the item sewn without too much difficulty.  

Huge holes do you no good, making the article weaker as a result.  Remove too much leather in making the hole and you diminish the strength of the leather, potentially compromising long term performance.  Added to that is the potential for the threads to "ride up" in the hole, actually moving around when under stress.  This could potentially cause premature failure of the thread, and failure of the article as a result.

Another aspect of this is the sharpening of the awl blade.  You want the point to be sharp, but it quickly transitions to a dull edge, which should be polished, not sharp.

The idea is the awl should easily pierce the leather, but then simply expand the leather to create a space in which to perform the stitch.  You don't want the awl sharpened the length of the blade because then it will slice a hole as wide as the blade.  Not good!

You want the hole to close up around the thread after it is stitched.  This will happen to some degree by itself, but you can encourage it along by tapping the stitch line with a smooth hammer with a polished face.

Hope all of that makes sense.  Nigel Armitage has written extensively on the process of hand stitching using an awl and has also created a video on how to properly prepare awl blades for use.

 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Tugadude

[Tugadude]

This is an excerpt from an article Nigel wrote for Leather Crafter's Forums...Nigel calls out saddlers, bridle and harness makers, but the lesson applies to most all leatherwork I think.

"In contrast, a saddler, bridle or harness maker looked to make a hole barely big enough to get one needle through at a time. The idea was to ensure that the thread did not ‘ride or slip’ in the hole.

If the hole was too big, the thread would ‘ride’ when the item was in use and if it did, one of two things would happen, the thread, if linen, could fur and snap causing the seam to fail. If the thread was polyester, it would saw at the leather cutting it and the seam would fail. It was, therefore, important to lock each stitch into place to try and prevent this riding and slipping from occurring.

I am sure you can appreciate the dangers of a seam failing on a saddle or bridle when a horse is at full gallop and every seam is being stressed to the max.

So, the secret in this technique was not the iron, it was the awl. The awl blade had a broad body and was tapered to a point, the point was sharp but the body was not. This ensured that the area of leather actually being cut could be kept to a minimum. The awl was then pushed into the hole only as far as it needed to be to get the correct size hole. Just the tip and you have a pinpoint hole, all the way to the haft and you had a much larger hole.

Because the body of the awl blade was blunt, or ‘soft’ the hole was stretched by the awl body, not cut, allowing the stitch to be placed, whereupon, almost immediately, the hole began to close up. This is why only one hole at a time is made and the awl is employed on every stitch as you go."

[tsunkasapa]

11 hours ago, Tugadude said:

This is an excerpt from an article Nigel wrote for Leather Crafter's Forums...Nigel calls out saddlers, bridle and harness makers, but the lesson applies to most all leatherwork I think.

"In contrast, a saddler, bridle or harness maker looked to make a hole barely big enough to get one needle through at a time. The idea was to ensure that the thread did not ‘ride or slip’ in the hole.

If the hole was too big, the thread would ‘ride’ when the item was in use and if it did, one of two things would happen, the thread, if linen, could fur and snap causing the seam to fail. If the thread was polyester, it would saw at the leather cutting it and the seam would fail. It was, therefore, important to lock each stitch into place to try and prevent this riding and slipping from occurring.

I am sure you can appreciate the dangers of a seam failing on a saddle or bridle when a horse is at full gallop and every seam is being stressed to the max.

So, the secret in this technique was not the iron, it was the awl. The awl blade had a broad body and was tapered to a point, the point was sharp but the body was not. This ensured that the area of leather actually being cut could be kept to a minimum. The awl was then pushed into the hole only as far as it needed to be to get the correct size hole. Just the tip and you have a pinpoint hole, all the way to the haft and you had a much larger hole.

Because the body of the awl blade was blunt, or ‘soft’ the hole was stretched by the awl body, not cut, allowing the stitch to be placed, whereupon, almost immediately, the hole began to close up. This is why only one hole at a time is made and the awl is employed on every stitch as you go."

That is the total opposite of what Al Stohlman and the old guys that taught me in the saddle shop. BOTH needles go through at the same time, eliminating the possibility of piercing the threads.

Just now, tsunkasapa said:

That is the total opposite of what Al Stohlman and the old guys that taught me in the saddle shop said. BOTH needles go through at the same time, eliminating the possibility of piercing the threads.

 

[TomE]

On 9/6/2022 at 7:35 AM, hickok55 said:

For sewing my chaps I'm using Saddlers Harness Needles size 17(2/0), which size awl would go the best with that size needle?

Lots of good advice in the comments.  I'll add that as you use and sharpen your awls they will become narrower and suitable for fine work.  I start using an awl for heavier projects and as it wears down with sharpening I put it on a smaller haft for the lighter projects with 9-10 stitches per inch.  In addition to only sharpening the point, I like to shape the point of Osborne awls to a longer/more gradual taper.  They are stubby when new.  Your #17 harness needles are hefty.  I am typically using #18-19 for sewing with #277 bonded nylon, and #19-20 needles for #207 thread.  The Osborne harness needles have a smaller eye than the John James needles which suits me.  I aim for the smallest needle that I can thread.  If you wax the thread with beeswax and smooth it between your fingers before sewing then your grip on the needles will improve.     

On 9/6/2022 at 9:17 PM, tsunkasapa said:

That is the total opposite of what Al Stohlman and the old guys that taught me in the saddle shop. BOTH needles go through at the same time, eliminating the possibility of piercing the threads.

 

I guess another way to avoid piercing the thread is to withdraw the thread from the backside as the needle is pushed through from the front.