New Sewing Machine GA441 Sewing Machine

[Tim Schroeder]

Just got this machine set up and ready to sew. I bought this one new from my sewing machine guy, but we just took it out of the box set it on a table, threaded it and hand wheeled a few stitches, and he said I was good to go. Thanks to UWE's YouTube video and a couple of others I was able to make a few adjustments and it sews great. I had a Cobra 4 until about 3 months before all the narrow needle plates started coming out. These narrow needle plates totally change what you can do with this machine. I bought #25 flat and round plates from Hennigan and a lifter handle extension. I plan on buying the #20 but not sure if it is necessary since the #25 fixed the original problem. 

 I had to cut the table down so I could get the sewing height at 29". I have a cabinet on wheels with a cut out for the machine to sit down in even with top of the table designed but will be a while before I get to build it. I have a Corion countertop for the top and extension that I've had for 10 yrs.  The extension table will make the table with extension the size of a normal flatbed table. 

 I have had issues with the little outside presser feet leaving marks, so I made a bigger one out of the blanket foot that came with this machine and bought a small center foot which I cut down and made an open toe to be able to see the needle. I had to have the slot in the outside presser foot milled out so it would push it over next to the center foot. 

 The table is from the Class 4 Premium Package I had that I filled the middle and covered with the Formica scraps left from building the cabinet originally. It was all scraps from a job. There's a seam in the middle but it should last a while until I can build the new table. I ordered some star handle bolts that will screw into the bottom of the mounting blocks from underneath and with just two in it is really solid. It doesn't have it yet, but I will put a metal bracket under the bottom that will sit on a bolt in the last bolt whole in the arm for support. 

 I put a service light under neath so you can see to change the bobbin or make tension adjustments. 

It has a 12" pulley to a 2" pulley speed reducer for a 6:1speed reduction., so it has plenty of torque at super slow speed. 

[Deryk]

Interesting... https://www.facebook.com/100077929567114/videos/1547627728995782/  Can I ask what weight leather/needle size/thread size do you work with?  I have been watching video's of the ls 1341 clones being able to clear a half an inch of leather strapping and back to purse weigh leather.  My "current" machine is a tippman Boss, but the one thing I like is you can fit almost an inch of leather under it which for my thoughts on heavy duty leather backpacks or large duffle bags I will occasionally be over a half an inch of thickness in places before it drops down to 2 layers of a 5 to 6 ounce weight chrome tan.  Everyone says you can't own one machine to do it all but the narrow feed plate and the willingness to swap it out as needed change to a thicker needle and thread for "heavy weight projects" might give you the option of a machine that can do light weight to heavy weight projects.

[TomE]

That's a handsome setup, @Tim Schroeder.  I agree that the narrow plates and dogs are game changers for the 441 clones.  I am learning to machine sew projects that I did by hand sewing previously.  Still on my learners permit for sewing lightweight goods.

[Tim Schroeder]

 I use mostly 138 and 207. Some wallets I am only sewing thru 3/4 oz. plus the lining with 138. I use some 92 on the inside of wallets. Then want to be able to sew 277 in a holster if I want to. I have a Cobra Class 26 in Brand New condition boxed up and ready to ship sitting right here. The narrow needle plates and feed dogs are the game changer.  The real reasons for the 441 is the 16" cylinder arm, the high presser foot lift and the ability to sew with the biggest thread made if you need/want to. Boy it looks cool sitting in my wife's formal dining room.  It comes in handy on boots and some other stuff. I found a 16" cylinder arm the same size as the class 26 with the adjustable walking foot knob on top, but it was $3300 for just the head. 

As for one machine to do it all this machine can be made to sew #92 thread up to #456 as advertised by everyone. The only adjustment for needle to hook spacing is the inner race. You are not gonna sew with a #25 needle and then change to a #21 or #20 needle without changing the inner race or at least shimming it. I don't think you are gonna sew 346 thru thick nylon webbing with a Hennigan #23 needle plate and feed dog.   Looks like the perfect solution is a different inner race for every other size needle. Then you just pick the correct inner race without having to mess with a bunch of shims.  Not sure why they don't come with at least two different size races and/or a bunch of shims. Then the people who buy these 441 clones to actually use these machines for every size thread would be able to make it sew on their own without tracking down another race and/or a bunch of shims. 

[dikman]

That's one helluva speed reducer you built!

[TomE]

1 hour ago, Tim Schroeder said:

You are not gonna sew with a #25 needle and then change to a #21 or #20 needle without changing the inner race or at least shimming it. I don't think you are gonna sew 346 thru thick nylon webbing with a Hennigan #23 needle plate and feed dog.   Looks like the perfect solution is a different inner race for every other size needle. 

Hmmm, well I guess I didn't know any better.  I do switch between #25 needle (277/207 thread) and #21 needle (138 thread) without changing the inner race.  I adjust the top and bottom tension and my Class 4 sews fine.  I am sewing 20-30 oz of leather with the #25 needle, and 6-10 oz with the #21 mainly on narrow straps and raised leather features.

[kgg]

A very nice setup.

1 hour ago, Tim Schroeder said:

The only adjustment for needle to hook spacing is the inner race. You are not gonna sew with a #25 needle and then change to a #21 or #20 needle without changing the inner race or at least shimming it. I don't think you are gonna sew 346 thru thick nylon webbing with a Hennigan #23 needle plate and feed dog.   Looks like the perfect solution is a different inner race for every other size needle. Then you just pick the correct inner race without having to mess with a bunch of shims.  Not sure why they don't come with at least two different size races and/or a bunch of shims. Then the people who buy these 441 clones to actually use these machines for every size thread would be able to make it sew on their own without tracking down another race and/or a bunch of shims. 

I found this to be interesting. I'm wondering if your machine is based on an Alder rather then a Juki TSC-441. The reason this caught my attention was according to the Juki TSC-441 manual to get correct clearance between the needle and the shuttle which you probably need to do when going from the smallest needle to the largest or vise versa you move the shuttle drive shaft front bushing. Section 18 ( ADJUSTING THE NEEDLE-TO-SHUTTLE RELATIONSHIP ) of the manual.

kgg

 

 

[Tim Schroeder]

Sorry I was repeating something I have read in here. I read somewhere in here you could sew 3 numbers down in needle sizes. Once you had it set for a #25 you could down to a #22 before having to shim the inner race.  I'm still working on mine. Maybe I need to just work on mine. The hook is/was hitting a #21 needle. I will have to get a thinner inner race to be able to sew anything over a #21. 

[Tim Schroeder]

I read that too but if the inner race is tight against the housing and the hook is tight against the race how could it move without the thinner inner race? 

[Tim Schroeder]

Better picture

[Tim Schroeder]

To adjust the shuttle to needle clearance you do have to replace the shuttle race back. I was calling it the inner race.  Manual says they come in 6 different sizes. Makes sense if you want proper needle to shuttle clearance on a machine that will sew from 92 to 456. 

[kgg]

14 minutes ago, Tim Schroeder said:

To adjust the shuttle to needle clearance you do have to replace the shuttle race back. I was calling it the inner race. 

I didn't read that far down in the manual. Which brings up another question. How do the Cowboy and Cobra machines accommodate this without shuttle race backings???

kgg

[Tim Schroeder]

Bob also sent me this.

[Burkhardt]

From the one picture to me it looks like the timing is off. When I got mine before I ever sewed with it the timing looked similar to the picture and it was late. If your needle is hitting where you show in the picture then it's off. The hook should be in the eye of the needle but it's hard to tell from the picture.

[Tim Schroeder]

I don't think the shuttle was pushed all the way as far back as it will go. I was trying to show the hook was up against the shuttle race back plate and the only way to move the hook to the right to clear a bigger needle would be to change the back plate as the instructions say. I don't believe you can buy them anywhere. The manual also had a way to move the needle to left buy an adjustment in the needle bar guide. But wouldn't that move the needle out of the center of the needle plate and feed dog. Adjusting it for what I need probably wouldn't matter but trying to make a #28 needle clear might be a different story. 

Another question, there is an adjustment for needle bar travel, but I don't understand it. I don't know how to tell if it's too far or not far enough. My machine is pulling the knots to the top but then they go back down where you can't see them.

[Tim Schroeder]

No edit button

[kgg]

12 minutes ago, Tim Schroeder said:

Another question, there is an adjustment for needle bar travel, but I don't understand it. I don't know how to tell if it's too far or not far enough. My machine is pulling the knots to the top but then they go back down where you can't see them.

"To adjust the height of the needle bar" page 10, Section 18 of the manual " Adusting the needle -to-shuttle relationship"

kgg

[Tim Schroeder]

This section talks about the travel of the needle bar.

[CowboyBob]

@TomSchroeder

1 minute ago, Tim Schroeder said:

This section talks about the travel of the needle bar.

DO NOT TOUCH THIS!!!

Look at the gap you have in this pic! You might need to scrape off some of the paint on the inside to make it seat all the way back.

Edited February 2, 2023 by CowboyBob

[Tim Schroeder]

Yes sir

[CowboyBob]

34 minutes ago, Tim Schroeder said:

I don't think the shuttle was pushed all the way as far back as it will go. I was trying to show the hook was up against the shuttle race back plate and the only way to move the hook to the right to clear a bigger needle would be to change the back plate as the instructions say. I don't believe you can buy them anywhere. The manual also had a way to move the needle to left buy an adjustment in the needle bar guide. But wouldn't that move the needle out of the center of the needle plate and feed dog. Adjusting it for what I need probably wouldn't matter but trying to make a #28 needle clear might be a different story. 

Another question, there is an adjustment for needle bar travel, but I don't understand it. I don't know how to tell if it's too far or not far enough. My machine is pulling the knots to the top but then they go back down where you can't see them.

There is no needlebar travel adjustment only height adjustmentfor the hook to catch the loop of thread off of the needle..This is controlled by the thread tension adjustment & as long as your knots are hidden in the leather so you can't see them then the tension is correct.

[Tim Schroeder]

Ok Thanks Bob. I have that back plate seated properly now. 

[TomE]

@CowboyBob have you found it necessary to change the shuttle race on a 441 type machine to accommodate different sized needles?  I don't have a means of measuring but the position of the needle scarf for #21 and #25 needles appears to be less than 1 millimeter different.  My machine sews fine with both needles and appropriate thread, after adjusting the top and bottom tension.  I am assuming that if the shuttle is positioned correctly it can accommodate a range of needles.

 

[CowboyBob]

25 minutes ago, TomE said:

@CowboyBob have you found it necessary to change the shuttle race on a 441 type machine to accommodate different sized needles?  I don't have a means of measuring but the position of the needle scarf for #21 and #25 needles appears to be less than 1 millimeter different.  My machine sews fine with both needles and appropriate thread, after adjusting the top and bottom tension.  I am assuming that if the shuttle is positioned correctly it can accommodate a range of needles.

 

No, what "might" need to be changed would be the shim behind the race.BUT I've never have seen it needed to be done.We can only get these shims from Juki @ at $350.00 ea so doubt if you want to go that route since there's is an adjustment where you can move your whole needlebar rockframe to adjust the needlebar left or right(see about 11 posts up on this thread).I would test it first & THEN only if your having a problem adjust it.

[Tim Schroeder]

There no shim behind the back plate. Shims would move the hook closer to the needle. 
If I move the needle over will the needle specific plates and feed dogs still work. Right now the needle is middle of the feed dog. I was trying to find the diameter of needles.  I understand it will sew 3 or 4 needle numbers down. If the hook is 0 on a #28 needle is it still gonna sew with a #20 needle without any adjustment. Machine can use #19 up to at least #28