Cobra Class 4 - Which Presser Foot / Needle Plate?

[PastorBob]

Good morning fellow leatherworkers, 

I want to ask a few questions regarding setting up the Class 4 for sewing different projects.  The machine is setup and sews beautifully.  It came setup with a left hand presser foot and the standard needle plate with feed dog installed.  I am using a #25 needle, 277 thread on top and 207 on the bottom.  So I have a couple of questions:

 

1. I was able to setup the roller guide and keep a pretty straight stitch, but it seemed to be in about 1/4" - 5/16" from the edge.  I tried moving in the roller guide closer to the needle (it moved just fine), but the edge that came into contact with the guide kept falling down into the opening of the needle plate.  It just seemed like it wasn't the right setup to get a stitch closer to the edge.  What is the best setup for getting close to the edge (1/8")
2. I was practicing on a piece of scrap for a pocket knife sheath.  I cut the scrap to the approximate size and punched out the belt slots.  As I was trying to sew around the belt slots, the presser foot kept falling into the belt slot and would not move the leather.  I switched out the left presser foot to the one that has a foot on both sides of the needle.  That seemed to help, but would I be better off switching to the narrower slotted needle plate?
3. How do I choose which combo of needle plates and presser feet?  I watched a video of Don Gonzalez showing the stirrup needle plate and he mentioned the holster one.  I read about it in the manual, but wasn't quite sure if it would help me as I don't have metal inserts in my holsters.
4. What is the best setup for sewing belts?

Thanks for all your help!!!

[Wizcrafts]

6 hours ago, PastorBob said:

I tried moving in the roller guide closer to the needle (it moved just fine), but the edge that came into contact with the guide kept falling down into the opening of the needle plate.  It just seemed like it wasn't the right setup to get a stitch closer to the edge.  What is the best setup for getting close to the edge (1/8")

It is this very problem that motivated two of our members to construct and offer up narrow throat plate/feed dog combinations. The first is by @RockyAussie. He made a feed dog about 1/4 inch wide with a throat plate slot just wide enough to clear it. I have that plate mounted on my Cowboy cb4500 and it allows me to sew softer and narrower items than the stock wide set. His set doesn't actually lower the range of thicknesses as much as it makes it less stressful to sew with thinner thread and needles.

The other member is @Patrick1. He makes narrow feed dog/throat plate sets that have smaller needle slots inside. His feed dogs are optimized for different maximum needle diameters, from a #19 through a #23. In other words, he takes over the lower end where Rocky's leave off. Between those two offerings you can use your Class 4 with very narrow needles and thread, sewing very thin leather, webbing and vinyl.

6 hours ago, PastorBob said:

I was practicing on a piece of scrap for a pocket knife sheath.  I cut the scrap to the approximate size and punched out the belt slots.  As I was trying to sew around the belt slots, the presser foot kept falling into the belt slot and would not move the leather.  I switched out the left presser foot to the one that has a foot on both sides of the needle.  That seemed to help, but would I be better off switching to the narrower slotted needle plate?

@Patrick1 is making a narrow presser foot set to deal with that very problem! Contact him.

 

6 hours ago, PastorBob said:

How do I choose which combo of needle plates and presser feet?  I watched a video of Don Gonzalez showing the stirrup needle plate and he mentioned the holster one.  I read about it in the manual, but wasn't quite sure if it would help me as I don't have metal inserts in my holsters.

This is a tricky issue. Generally speaking, if the work being sewn is flat, or only has layers that overlap, without hardware or raised sides to get in the way, the feed dog and matching throat plate provide the most efficient feeding of the material/leather. Furthermore, when you raise the stitch lever to reverse, having the feed dog in play usually6 places the reverse stitches into the previous holes. On the other hand, throat plates without feed dogs tend to drag differently in forward and reverse and the reverse holes often don't line up at all (in my experience). This calls for manually adjusting the stitch lever position when you sew in reverse to lock in the stitches.

The holster and stirrup plates are there for a reason. On many holsters there are shaped bodies or hardware that hang down on one side. The raised holster plate lets the drop shapes ride along the left edge unimpeded as you sew the flat seam allowance on the right edges.

The stirrup plate is a curved and narrower version of the holster plate. It lets hardware ease by as you sew on a downward curve. Being narrower, this lets hardware move by on both sides. I am referring to copper rivets, conchos, studs, decorative spots, etc. Again, you get no assist with reverse and may have to manually move the stitch lever to match the holes.

[PastorBob]

5 minutes ago, Wizcrafts said:

It is this very problem that motivated two of our members to construct and offer up narrow throat plate/feed dog combinations. The first is by @RockyAussie. He made a feed dog about 1/4 inch wide with a throat plate slot just wide enough to clear it. I have that plate mounted on my Cowboy cb4500 and it allows me to sew softer and narrower items than the stock wide set. His set doesn't actually lower the range of thicknesses as much as it makes it less stressful to sew with thinner thread and needles.

The other member is @Patrick1. He makes narrow feed dog/throat plate sets that have smaller needle slots inside. His feed dogs are optimized for different maximum needle diameters, from a #19 through a #23. In other words, he takes over the lower end where Rocky's leave off. Between those two offerings you can use your Class 4 with very narrow needles and thread, sewing very thin leather, webbing and vinyl.

@Patrick1 is making a narrow presser foot set to deal with that very problem! Contact him.

 

This is a tricky issue. Generally speaking, if the work being sewn is flat, or only has layers that overlap, without hardware or raised sides to get in the way, The feed dog and matching throat plate provide the most efficient feeding of the material/leather. Furthermore, when you raise the stitch lever to reverse, having the feed dog in play usually6 places the reverse stitches into the previous holes. On the other hand, throat plates without feed dogs tend to drag fdifferently in forward and reverse and the reverse holes often don't line up at all (in my experience). This calls for manually adjusting the stitch lever position when you sew in reverse to lock in the stitches.

The holster and stirrup plates are there for a reason. On many holsters there are shaped bodies or hardware that hang down on one side. The raised holster plate lets the drop shapes ride along the left edge unimpeded as you sew the flat seam allowance on the right edges.

The stirrup plate is a curved and narrower version of the holster plate. It lets hardware ease by as you sew on a downward curve. Being narrower, this lets hardware move by on both sides. I am referring to copper rivets, conchos, studs, decorative spots, etc. Again, you get no assist with reverse and may have to manually move the stitch lever to match the holes.

Thanks @Wizcrafts.  I have seen the posts for both of the solutions you mentioned above.  I just shelled out a lot of money for this machine and hate the thought of shelling out more.  How do I make do with the setup I have? At least for now?

[Wizcrafts]

27 minutes ago, PastorBob said:

Thanks @Wizcrafts.  I have seen the posts for both of the solutions you mentioned above.  I just shelled out a lot of money for this machine and hate the thought of shelling out more.  How do I make do with the setup I have? At least for now?

I'm glad you asked that! I wrote a blog article a few years ago about dumbing down a Cowboy or cobra 441 to allow it to sew thin or soft material..

[TomE]

I learned today that the narrow presser feet from @Patrick1 also do a nice job of sewing tight against hardware where the material thickness increases.  I have used the Cobra needle foot and double presser foot for this job and it requires some finesse to feed the material without slipping on the slope leading up to the hardware.  The narrow feet hold the material firmly and walk right up the slope with less hands on guiding.  This noseband is 2-3 layers of 10-11 oz bridle leather.  I am using a #25 needle and 277/207 thread with @RockyAussie's narrow plate/dog.

 

[Tim Schroeder]

Take that blanket foot to a machinist and have him mill the neck out so you can move it over. Took .094 out of mine and use Pat's #25 needle plate and feed dog. You could probably get by even with the stock throat plate. Better yet start a petition to get Pat to build the 111 size presser feet. With the #25 needle plate you can sew up to 277. Works just as well with 92 or 135. Instead of grinding the teeth off, just use some tape to make a form around the bottom of the presser foot then fill it with 5 minute epoxy and sand back down to the teeth. I ground the teeth down and now it is shorter than the standard feet. 

Do you have the narrow center foot?

[PastorBob]

16 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

I'm glad you asked that! I wrote a blog article a few years ago about dumbing down a Cowboy or cobra 441 to allow it to sew thin or soft material..

Its not thin or soft material I am fighting with, it is getting closer to the edge.  I will look at your blog so when I have the opportunity to sew thinner leather, I can. Thanks!!

15 hours ago, Tim Schroeder said:

Do you have the narrow center foot?

Are you talking about the one pictured above? That straddles the needle?  If so, Yes.

[Wizcrafts]

4 hours ago, PastorBob said:

Its not thin or soft material I am fighting with, it is getting closer to the edge.

I believe you have a standard Class 4 machine with a standard throat plate and feed dog. Did you get the drop down edge guide, or just the swing away guide on a T-bar?  Did you get a throat plate with a long narrow slot? Did you get a left toe presser foot?

If you have the standard throat plate and feed dog, left toe foot and swing-away edge guide, Install the left toe foot, then push the edge guide roller the distance you want from the needle. If the guide is getting hit by the feed dog, slide a piece of cardboard under it to raise it up enough to clear the feed dog at its highest position. If the leather is getting pushed into the hole in the feed dog, back off the pressure screw on top. Reduce both thread tensions to make it easier to pull up the knots, so you won't need as much foot pressure to hold the leather down. Move up one needle size if the leather still lifts with the ascending needle.

If you got the drop down edge guide, drop it down, slide it into the distance you want from the needle, but slightly ahead of the needle, using the supplied wrench. Also,  raise the roller above the height of the feed dog. Having the roller slightly ahead of the needle on close edges will keep the needle from pushing the leather away from the edge guide.

If you have the flat slotted throat plate, you can remove the feed dog and standard plate and install it in their place. I did this before I got the narrow plate and feed dog from @RockyAussie. The slot is about 1/8 inch with and I haven't had any material get pushed down into it as I sewed. That includes denim jeans I was hemming for customers. With this flat plate you can get the edge guide right up next to the inside foot, giving you a distance under 1/8 inch from the edge. Note that your forward and reverse may not line up without the feed dog assisting. In this case, either feather the stitch lever, or just sew all the way around and over the starting stitches if the work allows for that.

[PastorBob]

1 hour ago, Wizcrafts said:

If you have the flat slotted throat plate, you can remove the feed dog and standard plate and install it in their place. I did this before I got the narrow plate and feed dog from @RockyAussie. The slot is about 1/8 inch with and I haven't had any material get pushed down into it as I sewed. That includes denim jeans I was hemming for customers. With this flat plate you can get the edge guide right up next to the inside foot, giving you a distance under 1/8 inch from the edge. Note that your forward and reverse may not line up without the feed dog assisting. In this case, either feather the stitch lever, or just sew all the way around and over the starting stitches if the work allows for that.

That's exactly the info I was looking for.  Thanks so much for all you do to make this forum a goto place for questions, especially sewing machines.  I will try that this weekend.  Thanks again!!!!!

[Wizcrafts]

45 minutes ago, PastorBob said:

That's exactly the info I was looking for.  Thanks so much for all you do to make this forum a goto place for questions, especially sewing machines.  I will try that this weekend.  Thanks again!!!!!

Much of the information I typed is contained in my blog article about dumbing down 441 clones. That's how I did it before getting the narrow plate/feed dog set. Plus, using the narrow flat slotted plate, in conjunction with minimizing the  alternating lift, allowed me to sew a 1 inch thick holster.

[Burkhardt]

If you're using the flat bed try it without it on and let the belt hang a little vs keeping it totally flat.