MainiacMatt Report post Posted March 18, 2023 Attempting to sew 3-4 oz. Chrome tan with size 92 bonded nylon thread on new to me Consew 206. top stitches bottom bottom after cranking down tension and then I start breaking thread… I’ve disassembled, cleaned, and reassembled the tension mechanism, but the problem still persists. Bobbin tension didn’t seem excessive, so I backed off the tension screw just 1/4 turn. No joy! Any advice is much appreciated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MtlBiker Report post Posted March 18, 2023 4 minutes ago, MainiacMatt said: Attempting to sew 3-4 oz. Chrome tan with size 92 bonded nylon thread on new to me Consew 206. top stitches bottom bottom after cranking down tension and then I start breaking thread… I’ve disassembled, cleaned, and reassembled the tension mechanism, but the problem still persists. Bobbin tension didn’t seem excessive, so I backed off the tension screw just 1/4 turn. No joy! Any advice is much appreciated. What color is your thread? Some looks white (or light) and some dark. It's hard to tell if we're seeing the bobbin thread knot come up to the top. Are you holding your thread tail well at the start of sewing? What needle size are you using? Is it a good quality thread or junky off-brand? Show us some photos of how you have the top thread threaded in the machine. Do you have your bobbin thread inserted in the correct direction? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Quade Report post Posted March 18, 2023 What needle size are you using? It has to match the thread. If the needle is too small, tension won't work right. https://www.tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html My favorite chart. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kgg Report post Posted March 18, 2023 38 minutes ago, MainiacMatt said: Bobbin tension didn’t seem excessive, so I backed off the tension screw just 1/4 turn. No joy! Any advice is much appreciated. 40 minutes ago, MtlBiker said: Show us some photos of how you have the top thread threaded in the machine. Just to add to what MtlBiker said. What size and type of needle are you using. Should be a #19 or #20 with a 135 x16 needle. Is the machine threaded correctly for the top thread path and the direction the bobbin spins in the bobbin case as it unwinds from the bobbin? Is the needle threaded correctly, the needle insert all the way and in the correct direction? Did you do a drop test on the bobbin and bobbin case to get the bobbin thread tension set correctly? A few photo's would help of how you have threaded the machine from the thread spool to the eye of the needle. kgg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MainiacMatt Report post Posted March 18, 2023 third pic is bottom side after cranking to tension very tight Thread is all same dark brown color. Sunlight makes it look like two shades. needle is #20 size Bobbin is inserted CW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MainiacMatt Report post Posted March 18, 2023 I’m pretty sure I’m threading correctly I think thread is breaking at needle, or at needle guide Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MainiacMatt Report post Posted March 18, 2023 Starting like this… Sorry pics all posted sideways Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MainiacMatt Report post Posted March 18, 2023 When I try bobbin drop test the bobbin is ejected 1/4 way out of case by spring and seems to bind a little, so I don’t feel like I’m getting an accurate take on tension Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MainiacMatt Report post Posted March 18, 2023 It’s always the top thread that breaks. It will always break when I press the back stitch lever Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wyowally Report post Posted March 18, 2023 (edited) Tensions: if you can free hand pull thread from the loaded bobbin smoothly and pretty easy - and through the top tensioner smoothly but with more resistance than the bobbin thread, then things are close. Loops that big and consistently make me think the the top thread is snagging after the hook pulls it around and turns it loose, just when the needle is trying to pull up, but before it gets to the bobbin thread. You posted good pictures, BTW. Suggest looking at the hook and thread action after the hook pulls the top thread around. Edited March 18, 2023 by Wyowally add text Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MainiacMatt Report post Posted March 18, 2023 (edited) Backed off Bobbin tension another 1/4 turn and dialed in top tension firm, but not crazy tight… stitching is much better… top Bottom still shredding thread whenever I back stitch Edited March 18, 2023 by MainiacMatt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MainiacMatt Report post Posted March 18, 2023 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeatherLegion Report post Posted March 18, 2023 Can you please post a more clear picture of the tension discs with the thread ran through? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shoepatcher Report post Posted March 18, 2023 (edited) Ok change to #19 or #21 needle. Take thread out of machine and check the entire thread path for burrs or slots worn into thread guides. Carefully rethread machine. Take bobbin out and gentle pull on the thread in it so see how much tension is on the bobbin . Check the bobbin tension spring for grooves worn in it. Sew a few trial stiches on scrap and lets see what you got. Once we get it sewing good forward, then we will work on the back stitch. Also, check the hook distance from the new needle and the timing on the hook to the needle. glenn Edited March 18, 2023 by shoepatcher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kgg Report post Posted March 19, 2023 17 hours ago, MainiacMatt said: I’m pretty sure I’m threading correctly In your very first photo their is blurred image of your main spool which appears to have some form of thread banding around the cone in the center in the center of the spool. Could you please post a photo of the main thread spool and how you have threaded the thread through the thread post guide. Is this a recent problem that started to happen when you changed spools of thread. The thread appears to be a Chinese brand of thread which I have found to create weird problems caused by poor manufacturing. I would also. i) Check all surfaces where the thread passes through or around for sharp edges or grooves and ensure the needle isn't slightly twisted towards the front or back of the machine. ii) Change the needle to a #21 as the thread maybe sized different then what it is labeled as. iii) Change to a Schmetz brand of needle. I have had better success with their needles iv) Change spools of thread as it maybe a bad spool. v) Remove the banding around the center of the spool of thread as this maybe causing inconsistent thread tension. vi) Make sure you have a distance from the top of the spool of thread to the thread stand guide hole that is twice the height of the spool thread kgg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MainiacMatt Report post Posted March 19, 2023 (edited) Thanks for all the replies.... The spool with the blue painters tape on it is not feeding the machine, I'm just storing it on the thread stand. I purchased the 92 bonded nylon thread off ebay for $7/4oz. spool, so I'm sure I can do better. I used Coats and Clark on the leather cushions I made long ago (not this machine) but I don't think they make anything this heavy. What brands/suppliers are recommended? Prices on Superiorthreads.com are $20/lb. for 92 Bonded Nylon, but no brand name is listed. thethreadexchange.com has Amann and A&E for double that price. Sailrite has Sunstop brand at $20/4oz spool. I have no idea what brands are considered to be better, or who the best retailers are. The only sharp edges I could identify were on the clearance v-cut in the front of the needle bar. So I dusted them with a tiny grinding wheel on a Dremel tool. The gap in the needle bar thread guide has a sharp corner on it, so I fiddled with that and a diamond hone, but managed to break it. I ordered parts on Amazon, but won't see them until Tuesday. So I won't be able to do anything further until then. Edited March 19, 2023 by MainiacMatt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kgg Report post Posted March 20, 2023 13 hours ago, MainiacMatt said: I have no idea what brands are considered to be better, or who the best retailers are. Personally like the A&E Anefil Thread which is a Bonded Nylon. I have never had problems A&E threads, their threads are made in both the Canada and the US and you can, at least in Canada, buy direct from them. The Sunstop from Sailrite is also an A&E thread a Bonded Polyester. Bonded Nylon is ever so slightly thicker then bonded polyester so the breaking strength of bonded nylon is slightly higher. Bonded Polyester handles UV and bleach exposure better then Bonded Nylon. My experience is the price difference between Brand name threads and the unbranded stuff can be substantial. The main problem is the consistency and quality of the no name threads typically Chinese stuff can be all over the board. Avoid the frustration and spend the extra for a brand name thread. The thread and needle are the inexpensive parts of completing any of your projects so it's better to start off with good quality. kgg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MainiacMatt Report post Posted March 20, 2023 Ordered thread from Superior. We'll see how that goes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Metalhorseman Report post Posted March 23, 2023 (edited) Matt ,, I found a place called “Wawak.com” , they sell all good thread . Amann , A&E , Gutterman.. better prices than most I’ve found..Matt also put your magnifying glasses on and use a headlamp when your looking over all the parts the other guys were saying to look .. They Help me ! This site is Great ! check it out !!! Edited March 23, 2023 by Metalhorseman Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MainiacMatt Report post Posted April 3, 2023 (edited) progress report.... I received the new needle bar thread guides I ordered on Amazon. They are stamped metal and when installed don't center properly on the needle. After wasting a lot of time attempting to bend one to align correctly, I went back to the OEM part which I had damaged. This appears to be a MIM (metal injection molded) piece and it's much harder and precisely shaped. That explains why it snapped when I held it in pliars attempting to file a sharp edge off at the gap. I reinstalled the OEM part and found it would still guide the thread under most circumstances, so I'll continue with it until I can find a source for a OEM replacement. I received a spool of 92 weight thread from Superior and was able to get the tensions dialed in to get a good (centered) stitch on two layers of 4 oz. chrome tan (both with the original ebay thread and the new Superior thread). I sped up, did tight curves, and didn't break the thread. The top thread (regardless of brand) breaks when I attempt to back tack with the reverse lever. The top thread (regardless of brand) breaks when I attempt to sew four layers of my leather. After several hours of fussing around, I got frustrated and called it a day. My conclusions: It's not the thread It's not the tension settings It's not sharp or burred edges (at least not above the deck) The only adjustments I haven't checked above the deck are the thread control spring range and tension, the presser foot height, and the presser foot movement distance. I suspect the problem is being caused below the deck. My hook timing appears to be spot on and the clearance between the hook and the needle at the scarf is with one sheet of paper ( ~.003" to .004"), where .02mm to .1mm ( or .0007: to .004") is the spec. I have yet to look at the thread release finger clearance. Edited April 3, 2023 by MainiacMatt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kgg Report post Posted April 3, 2023 1 hour ago, MainiacMatt said: I suspect the problem is being caused below the deck. Since the problem occurs when you reverse I would check and see if the forward and reverse stitch match. Without thread in the needle: Place a piece of heavy paper under the presser foot and sew a seam for say 6 inches then reverse. The reverse holes should match, going through the holes that you created in forward. There should be no variation of spi from the first part of the seam and the last part. This will also allow you to accurately measure spi the machine is actually sewing versus what your stitch length dial setting is saying. kgg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MainiacMatt Report post Posted April 3, 2023 kgg.... thanks for that Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted April 4, 2023 I have found that the actual hook to needle timing changes when I sew in reverse on my walking foot machines. While this isn't bad enough to shred the thread, it does occasionally lead to skipped stitches in reverse. You need to really time these reversing machines perfectly, or else... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
