Looking for advice on a sewing machine Pfaff 145 H4

[Landry]

Hello all, I still have yet to purchase a sewing machine. I was looking at a tippmann boss at an auction last year but it got away from me. I haven't done very much leatherwork lately do to other projects needing finished. I was looking at the weaver master tool cub recently and I just don't think either option sounds that great. I have seen some posts on here about Pfaff 145 H4 and I just found one for sale a Pfaff 145 Industrial triple walking foot 4H LMN it's about $1300 shipped and its been restored. I'm not sure if it could be used manually it does not have a servo motor or a table. But then for a lower price I could get a new JUKI DDL-8700 INDUSTRIAL Sewing Machine + Table + Servo Motor for $799 shipped. I like the quality of the vintage machines but I'm not so sure about the price and then add for a servo and a table. I am using Vinymo MBT Thread - Size #5 - 60m it says its slightly thicker than machine thread size 138 which the Pfaff uses. I have been hand stitching on wallets but I will be doing only the interiors because it's pretty hard to go through thick leather and glue by hand for me. I also want to start making some bags purses so a machine that can handle that kind of stuff nothing really thick like holsters, any thin parts I will hand sew. Not sure how easy it would be to sew gussets and stuff that was one thing I liked about the master tool cub design. Any advice would be much appreciated thanks

Edited March 22, 2023 by Landry

[Wizcrafts]

I'd stay away from that Juki 8700 unless you plan to make cloth garments, or work aprons. It is a high speed, flat foot, straight stitch, bottom feed machine with an integral oil pump. The machine is expected to spin at up to 5500 stitches per minute. Simple math says that equals 91 stitches per second! Now, a half decent servo motor should let you sew much slower, probably down to about 5 or 10 stitches per second, depending on its design and the size of the motor pulley. You would still have to run it flat out before you start sewing to distribute the oil to the extremities. Failure to do this may result in a seized machine.

You may be able to slow it down more by getting a 2 inch, or smaller motor pulley, and a new v-belt to match the longer path between the top and bottom pulleys. Normally, these high speed machines ship with a 4 inch or larger motor pulley to spin the machine at its rated top speed.

You can avoid all this hassle if you buy a walking foot machine that is equipped with an analog servo motor that has a 2 inch or smaller pulley. I have this type of motor on all my walking foot machines and they can easily chug along at 1 or 2 stitches per second.

[Landry]

15 minutes ago, Wizcrafts said:

I'd stay away from that Juki 8700 unless you plan to make cloth garments, or work aprons. It is a high speed, flat foot, straight stitch, bottom feed machine with an integral oil pump. The machine is expected to spin at up to 5500 stitches per minute. Simple math says that equals 91 stitches per second! Now, a half decent servo motor should let you sew much slower, probably down to about 5 or 10 stitches per second, depending on its design and the size of the motor pulley. You would still have to run it flat out before you start sewing to distribute the oil to the extremities. Failure to do this may result in a seized machine.

You may be able to slow it down more by getting a 2 inch, or smaller motor pulley, and a new v-belt to match the longer path between the top and bottom pulleys. Normally, these high speed machines ship with a 4 inch or larger motor pulley to spin the machine at its rated top speed.

You can avoid all this hassle if you buy a walking foot machine that is equipped with an analog servo motor that has a 2 inch or smaller pulley. I have this type of motor on all my walking foot machines and they can easily chug along at 1 or 2 stitches per second.

Thanks I was looking at those same servo motors. They will work on the Pfaff 145 H4 I've seen a video about attaching one now I just need to find out what a good price for the Pfaff would be. I think that's going to be the way to go.

[fibersport]

If I may jump in on this one .... I have a Singer 251, it was my first industrial/commercial machine some years back.  It does not have a walking foot and is more appropriate for quitling which is what the woman I bought it from was doing, it also has an oil pump.  Fast forward some years and I wanted to try and make a seat cover for my Jeep.  All went good until I tried cramming multiple layers of Sunbrella under a foot that raised up only a hair over 1/4".  The search for a walking foot machine built to handle leather began and I found a Pfaff 145 about 2 weeks ago for a cheap price although it did need a lot of TLC.  I was able to get it sewing very well, even up to 8 layers of vinyl with no problems.  Then I thought I would be smart and clean all the rust and gunk on it.  My problems began and it has been a little difficult getting information on this machine which is about 60 years old.  There have been a few people on this forum who have helped quite a bit however parts seem to be difficult to find.  If the machine you found is indeed rebuilt and in great working order, I still think the price is a bit steep.  I don't think I would buy an older Pfaff for that money unless I planned on light useage only because of possible issues with parts.  My Pfaff did run great and would probably be more than I could ever need (once I get it dialed in) however there are costs associated with that.  Honestly if you want a mchine with a lineage, look for a Pfaff 1245.  If you want a machine that you can get parts for get a Consew.  I deal with an upholstery company that is making seats for our train cars, they also make seats for Amtrak and Delta so they know their business.  I was at their plant a few weeks ago, all their new machines are Juki's.  They have numerous models but if they have invested their money into those machines, that has to tell you something.  Just my $0.02 ......

 

And a servo motor will make a big difference!

Edited March 22, 2023 by fibersport

[Quade]

Quote

. But then for a lower price I could get a new JUKI DDL-8700 INDUSTRIAL Sewing Machine + Table + Servo Motor for $799 shipped. I l

I've gone down this exact path.  My first machine was a Juki DDL-5550 Which is the Japanese version of the 8700. It was never used in a factory so, it's not worn out.   I wanted to sew bags and some light leather.   It's a great machine for cloth. The description of the machine is "light to medium duty cloth"  and that's exactly what it's good at.  It'll do 1000 d cordura too if you keep the thread size and number of layers down. It doesn't like larger thread sizes at all. I keep it below Tex 70.   I bought a Singer 211 for heavier stuff, rebuilt it and it's the machine I'll use for heavier jobs.   I'd love to have a newer Juki with unison feed but, I can't justify spending that money for what's just a hobby.    

The 211's are built like tanks and you can still get most important parts for them. At the very least you can buy one cheap enough the cannibalize for parts. The manuals for repairing and adjusting them are pretty terrible.  Better then Consew but not nearly as good as Juki.  There's lots of different variations on the basic 211 maybe 20 or more different part numbers so if you get one, make sure it'll do what you want. 

So my advice is buy more machine than you need so you don't get stuck with a machine that won't meet your goals. 

[Landry]

2 hours ago, Quade said:

I've gone down this exact path.  My first machine was a Juki DDL-5550 Which is the Japanese version of the 8700. It was never used in a factory so, it's not worn out.   I wanted to sew bags and some light leather.   It's a great machine for cloth. The description of the machine is "light to medium duty cloth"  and that's exactly what it's good at.  It'll do 1000 d cordura too if you keep the thread size and number of layers down. It doesn't like larger thread sizes at all. I keep it below Tex 70.   I bought a Singer 211 for heavier stuff, rebuilt it and it's the machine I'll use for heavier jobs.   I'd love to have a newer Juki with unison feed but, I can't justify spending that money for what's just a hobby.    

The 211's are built like tanks and you can still get most important parts for them. At the very least you can buy one cheap enough the cannibalize for parts. The manuals for repairing and adjusting them are pretty terrible.  Better then Consew but not nearly as good as Juki.  There's lots of different variations on the basic 211 maybe 20 or more different part numbers so if you get one, make sure it'll do what you want. 

So my advice is buy more machine than you need so you don't get stuck with a machine that won't meet your goals. 

I just looked up the singer 211 not a bad looking machine but I think I need a cylinder arm machine that comes with a table attachment. I think if I'm going to spend some money on a machine I might as well get something good. The cobra 26 has been on my list for a while just thought maybe I could start with something less expensive. Most of what I see is really close in price so a few extra dollars is worth the quality in my book.

[Quade]

Quote

I think if I'm going to spend some money on a machine I might as well get something good. 

It comes down to knowing what you're going to sew and picking the right machine for your needs.  I'd buy new if it was paying my bills. A hobbyist like me can afford to dick around with these machines because I'm not dependent on them.