Needle systems?

[Moti]

Hi

adler 269 manual says for system 134-35

so I bought it and it doesn't fit, maybe I don't know where it the system writes 

 

Edited April 8, 2023 by Moti

[fibersport]

How does it not fit?  Needle system numbering is very confusing.  Do you have a needle that does work?  There is a very good chart that shows the dimensions for the different needle systems at this site that I found very helpful: 

https://ismacs.net/needle_and_shank/needle-cross-reference-chart-round-shank.html

 

 

[kgg]

1 hour ago, Moti said:

adler 269 manual says for system 134-35

The needle system is only one part of the equation the other part is the size of the needle and the machines manufacturer determined the max size of needle for that machines needle system for that machine.

i) Depending on age of your machine and sub class you are also limited to a 130 (#21) needle which is good for V92 ( 30 ) thread. The needle you have shown is a larger 140 (#22) needle. Check your manual to see what is the max size of needle will fit your machine.

ii) Your machine was converted at some point to a 135 needle system.

On the top line at the right where it says "Nm 140/22" tells what size of needle. The 140 is the metric size and 22 is the US (Singer ) size of the needle. The larger the size number the stronger the needle is, has a larger eye to allow for larger threads. 

kgg

[Moti]

Ok, I'm asking if what I marked in black is a needle system?

Maybe the needle I had before was wrong, but I don't know because that's how I got the machine

Edited April 8, 2023 by Moti

[kgg]

16 minutes ago, Moti said:

Ok, I'm asking if what I marked in black is a needle system?

Yes that is the needle system of those Gross-Beckert needles.

If you still have the needle the machine came with. Is that needle longer, same or shorter then the new needles?

kgg

[Wizcrafts]

If system 134-35 is correct for your machine (according to the specifications), and you have inserted the needle all the way up in its mounting hole, and the rib faces due left, and the scarf faces due right, and it is threaded properly and won't pick up the bobbin thread, the machine is either out of time, or the needle bar has been pushed up due to a hard impact and the needle is now too short.

If it was pushed up, the needle bar can be lowered back to the specs so the eye of the needle is at the right height as the hook passes over it on the upstroke. If the needle bar is at the correct factory position, the hook may be retarded due to a thread jam. Clear out any loose thread, oil the hook, then retime according to the manual. The hook must intersect the needle in the scarf area, above the eye, on the upstroke when a loop has formed on the right side of the needle.

 

[Moti]

9 minutes ago, kgg said:

Yes that is the needle system of those Gross-Beckert needles.

If you still have the needle the machine came with. Is that needle longer, same or shorter then the new needles?

kgg

Short 

[Moti]

3 minutes ago, Wizcrafts said:

If system 134-35 is correct for your machine (according to the specifications), and you have inserted the needle all the way up in its mounting hole, and the rib faces due left, and the scarf faces due right, and it is threaded properly and won't pick up the bobbin thread, the machine is either out of time, or the needle bar has been pushed up due to a hard impact and the needle is now too short.

If it was pushed up, the needle bar can be lowered back to the specs so the eye of the needle is at the right height as the hook passes over it on the upstroke. If the needle bar is at the correct factory position, the hook may be retarded due to a thread jam. Clear out any loose thread, oil the hook, then retime according to the manual. The hook must intersect the needle in the scarf area, above the eye, on the upstroke when a loop has formed on the right side of the needle.

 

Yes I know, so basically I can line the machine with any needle I want?

[kgg]

24 minutes ago, Moti said:

so basically I can line the machine with any needle I want?

As long as it is of the correct needle system for that machine (with a few exceptions) and the size of the needle is within the limits of what was specified for that model of machine.

If the needle that came with the machine is shorter then the new ones chances are that someone converted the machine to 135 X 16 needle system.

kgg

Edited April 8, 2023 by kgg

[Moti]

21 minutes ago, kgg said:

Yes that is the needle system of those Gross-Beckert needles.

If you still have the needle the machine came with. Is that needle longer, same or shorter then the new needles?

kgg

The manual there’s 2 of them 
one size 130 and the second size 140Abc.pdf

[Moti]

My machine is 269 73

[kgg]

1 minute ago, Moti said:

My machine is 269 73

The info that I have seen for the 269 sub class 73 is that it is rated for 130 (#21) needle. Since your machine was converted probably to a 135 x16 system, as the needle that came with the machine is shorter, you will still be limited to roughly a 130 max size needle to provide proper needle to hook clearances.

What is it that you want to sew with what size of thread?

kgg

[Moti]

11 minutes ago, kgg said:

The info that I have seen for the 269 sub class 73 is that it is rated for 130 (#21) needle. Since your machine was converted probably to a 135 x16 system, as the needle that came with the machine is shorter, you will still be limited to roughly a 130 max size needle to provide proper needle to hook clearances.

What is it that you want to sew with what size of thread?

kgg

Bags for rope access workers 

and leather rope guards

and I managed to tuning bobbin case opener, and training 

but know the thread is shredded and the tension is really hard on the top thread 

Edited April 8, 2023 by Moti

[kgg]

1 hour ago, Moti said:

but know the thread is shredded

Typical problem when the thread is to large for the needle or their are burrs on the thread guides or needle as well as needle inserted incorrectly.

What size of thread are you using?

How thick is the items you are trying to sew?

kgg

Edited April 8, 2023 by kgg

[Moti]

41 minutes ago, kgg said:

Typical problem when the thread is to large for the needle or their are burrs on the thread guides or needle as well as needle inserted incorrectly.

What size of thread are you using?

How thick is the items you are trying to sew?

kgg

138 thread and I’m trying to sew the leather is 6 or 5 mm thick, and fire hose

 

[kgg]

16 hours ago, Moti said:

138 thread and I’m trying to sew the leather is 6 or 5 mm thick, and fire hose

My take on your sewing woes:

i) The Alder 269-73 can only handle V92 thread with a max 130 needle. So trying to sew thick or tough materiel / leather with the incorrect size needle for the thread is just going to create problems, thread being shredded, skipped stitches, needles breaking, etc.

ii) The needles you showed in the photo are for fabric not leather as denoted by the "R" in the bottom left hand corner of the label. A reference for needle points can be found at: https://www.thethreadexchange.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=needle-information#Leather_Points

iii) A good reference chart for thread to needle combinations can be found at https://www.tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html

kgg

 

[Moti]

 well thank you very much you helped me a lot

[DonInReno]

Some of that fire hose is really dense and the rubber liner doesn’t help - you may want to try a silicone lubricant on the thread to help it not get so shredded.   Some machines have a sponge the thread passes over and picks up the lubricant, others have a little pot, and it’s possible to just spray it on the thread spool.

[Moti]

Ok  I don't understand both are the same needle system?  But the needle is not the same length

[leerling]

134 is not the same needle system as 134-35

[kgg]

31 minutes ago, Moti said:

I don't understand both are the same needle system?

They are different needle systems. They are the same diameter (2.0 mm) with different lengths made to fit different machines. The 134-35 length is 38.1mm from the end to the center of the eye and the 134 is 33.9.

kgg

 

 

 

[Moti]

So which one is System 134?

[Moti]

Adler 269 in the book is 134 only

o sorry 134-35 only

Edited April 11, 2023 by Moti

[Moti]

1 hour ago, kgg said:

They are different needle systems. They are the same diameter (2.0 mm) with different lengths made to fit different machines. The 134-35 length is 38.1mm from the end to the center of the eye and the 134 is 33.9.

kgg

 

 

 

Thanks 

[kgg]

Just now, Moti said:

So which one is System 134?

The one for your machine that the manufacturer recommended, which was the 134-35 needles so the Groz-Beckert should be the ones. The manual I am referencing is https://www.manualslib.com/manual/461721/Duerkopp-Adler-269.html?page=4#manual

kgg