A newbie question about Tan Kote

[LzCraft]

Hello fellow crafters, I'm as new to leather craft as I am to forums. In the past I have only made 2 cartridge belts, a holster, 2 hat bands and an archery finger tab. All of them were experiments so I have pretty much no experience.

I've been considering using Tan Kote on newer projects, I heard that this finish will allow penetration of oil into the leather. I'm however, not a fan of neatsfoot or mink oil as it may oxidize and harden the leather.

My question is if Tan Kote will let paste conditioner through. I use a traditional mix of beeswax, essential oils and vaseline, which is worked into the leather using friction using a cotton rag or sheepswool.

My current process is to dye the leather using Fiebing's Pro Dye, Applying paste conditioner twice and then not doing much more.

 

Edited May 7, 2023 by LzCraft

[Tugadude]

What is it about Tan Kote that makes you want to use it?  What do you want it to do?  Are there better finishes which do what you want?

Tan Kote is permeable, so yes, you can apply things over it.  They will penetrate into the underlying leather.  

[chuck123wapati]

3 hours ago, LzCraft said:

Hello fellow crafters, I'm as new to leather craft as I am to forums. In the past I have only made 2 cartridge belts, a holster, 2 hat bands and an archery finger tab. All of them were experiments so I have pretty much no experience.

I've been considering using Tan Kote on newer projects, I heard that this finish will allow penetration of oil into the leather. I'm however, not a fan of neatsfoot or mink oil as it may oxidize and harden the leather.

My question is if Tan Kote will let paste conditioner through. I use a traditional mix of beeswax, essential oils and vaseline, which is worked into the leather using friction using a cotton rag or sheepswool.

My current process is to dye the leather using Fiebing's Pro Dye, Applying paste conditioner twice and then not doing much more.

 

why would neets foot oil or mink oil harden leather? i've been using both for years with no trouble. Your current process sounds good too why change? 

[TomE]

I notice that petroleum jelly has lots of stearic acid derivatives (a fatty acid prone to oxidation) not unlike the fats and oils found in neatsfoot oil and other waxes and oils in commercial leather products. https://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/lookup.cfm?setid=08685fc3-33fb-446a-bd2b-210bf90a4c49  Neatsfoot oil has been used for many years to maintain horse tack to good effect.  Tack that is hard leather typically results from a failure to oil and condition.  Conversely, over-oiling will create spongy leather that is weakened.  I don't apply a finish to tack, just clean and condition and occasionally oil it.  Tan Kote can lift pigment from freshly dyed leather and discolor the thread.  

[LzCraft]

1 hour ago, Tugadude said:

What is it about Tan Kote that makes you want to use it?  What do you want it to do?  Are there better finishes which do what you want?

Tan Kote is permeable, so yes, you can apply things over it.  They will penetrate into the underlying leather.  

I saw a handmade cartridge money belt at a sporting store finished with Tan Kote next to one finished with Resolene. Tan Kote seems to enhance any tooling in the leather better than Resolene. As far as I understood, Resolene finished leather cannot be properly conditioned.

I'm thinking of using a surface finish to simply make the leather more resistant to dirt and dust.

Edited May 7, 2023 by LzCraft

[LzCraft]

33 minutes ago, TomE said:

I notice that petroleum jelly has lots of stearic acid derivatives (a fatty acid prone to oxidation) not unlike the fats and oils found in neatsfoot oil and other waxes and oils in commercial leather products. https://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/lookup.cfm?setid=08685fc3-33fb-446a-bd2b-210bf90a4c49  Neatsfoot oil has been used for many years to maintain horse tack to good effect.  Tack that is hard leather typically results from a failure to oil and condition.  Conversely, over-oiling will create spongy leather that is weakened.  I don't apply a finish to tack, just clean and condition and occasionally oil it.  Tan Kote can lift pigment from freshly dyed leather and discolor the thread.  

That's interesting, I used to know a cobbler who said he would avoid such oils as he said they would "crack, harden and discolour" the leather with time, especially if exposed to sun, and instead swore by paste. Perhaps he used some kind of formula without vaseline. Vaseline itself appears in many pastes, including Gold Quality and Fiebing's.

Edited May 7, 2023 by LzCraft

[TomE]

I've had good luck with Blackrock Leather N' Rich, Fiebings Aussie, and Effax Lederbalsam conditioning balms.  I see that Lederbalsam does contain petroleum jelly along with lanolin.  Another conditioner I've been meaning to try is Ray Hole's Saddle Butter. 

Don Gonzales seems to recommend Tan Kote, which is a satin finish in comparison to shiny Resolene.  I thought the idea with Tan Kote is that it wears off faster than resolene to allow oils and conditioners to penetrate.  I have used Tan Kote mixed 50:50 with Pro Dye to dye and burnish edges.  Martin's Edge Solution mixed with Pro Dye gives me a slightly slicker/harder edge for the bridle leather I'm typically using, but I continue to experiment.    

[Tugadude]

Resolene is more of a sealer and is not permeable.  An acrylic film is formed and it will resist moisture penetration.

[SUP]

I have been experimenting with both Tan kote and Resolene and like Tan kote better, because Resolene gives a harder shine and impermeable finish.. Both Tan Kote and Resolene cause the freshly applied dye to come off on the material you use to apply them, especially Tan kote. I in fact, I use Tan kote to get an antique finish without using antique dye. I use Resolene when I do not care much about how the item looks. 

You will just have to experiment on pieces of scrap leather and decide what is best for your current project - there are others besides Resolene and Tan kote like Super sheen or Satin sheen or even plain mineral oil. With the information provided by so many leathercrafters in this thread, a Google search and the SDS may help you make an informed decision.

About Neatsfoot oil and Mink oil, I am surprised that you say it hardens leather. Quite the contrary, in fact. Neatsfoot oil is used to soften hardened leather and if used too much, can make the leather too soft.  They are also much more stable than oils like olive oil coconut oil, almond oil and others many recommend for leather.  I suspect both have been given a bad name by companies peddling leather conditioners and people, in all innocence, believed and ran with it. 

Leather goes hard and dry not because of the use of these oils but because the leather has not been properly taken care of and conditioned. That is required periodically to maintain leather in optimum form, no matter what conditioner is used.

 

 

 

[dikman]

Vaseline is more likely to cause problems with leather than neatsfoot oil. Most commercial paste waxes use highly refined mineral oil (baby oil) to make the beeswax in their products soft enough to use. Generally, flat/satin finishes are somewhat permeable compared to gloss finishes so Tan-kote is likely to allow oils through - BUT I haven't tried it myself because I don't use Tan-kote. Or Resolene.

[LzCraft]

Dear fellow crafters. Based on responses, I will give Tan Kote a try after some experiments on scraps. As far as conditioner goes, opinions seem to vary wherever one looks. I decided to visit some stables not far from where I live. There I spoke to a farrier and saddler with over 30 years of experience. I was given a sample of something called "Bick 4", the conditioner he has had the best experience with. I will be using this for my next project. 

Edited May 8, 2023 by LzCraft