Rookie issue with Techsew 5100

[TES]

12 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

Are you holding back the starting threads for a few stitches? This is a necessity! When you start sewing, can you confirm that the top thread is going inside the inside foot and exiting out the back of that foot? If the top thread is fed between the inside and outside foot, there will be trouble.

How much swing/travel does the check spring have? It must hold the top thread taut until the needle has penetrated the top layer. and must stop moving down before the needle reaches BDC. If your chec spring travel is too short, there will be too much slack in the top thread as the take-up lever moves down. This could lead to the thread getting caught by, and wrapping around the feet.

Good morning sir....Thank you again for your help.

Yes, I am holding the starting threads back for the first few stitches. Yes, the thread is going through the inside foot and exiting out of the back. I have measured the travel on the check spring, nor even looked at it when starting to sew.....I have videos but they are too large to post here.

Could this all be due to thread tension being incorrect? The top thread is very tight and the bobbin thread is MUCH more loose.

I was thinking about the situation last night.

This all started after I got the machine home and threaded up to start sewing. The only initial issue was that the top thread was twisted and some of the knots were slightly showing on the top side. I did get a thread tangle in the bobbin area ; so much so that I had to remove the plate holding the bobbin shuttle in place to remove it......This is when my problems began.

I videos online was a Techsew 5100, but clearly a different vintage and did not look exactly like my machine. It took a couple of days and Techsew did send me the video for my exact machine. I found that I had spooled the top thread incorrectly when watching that video. I rethreaded it correctly, but I am thinking that I may have screwed up the tension when removing the plate holding the bobbin in place....

Based upon the video, the needle/bobbin timing is correct.

Question:

Could this be a thread tension issue? The top thread takes considerably more pressure to pull thread than does the bobbin thread. When I removed the bobbin shuttle plate, did that release the tension for the bobbin thread?

I don't know enough about these machines to diagnose. I do know that the loop being formed in the bobbin area is happening on the second stitch and if I let go of the top thread and pull the bobbin thread very tight it does not happen. 

I am going out there this morning and put some more tension on the bobbin thread and see if the problem gets better or goes away.

 

Thank you again for your responses. You have been extremely helpful....much more so that the manufacturer. 

Tom

[Wizcrafts]

@TES

When you removed and replaced the shuttle retainer plate, did you leave some slack in the spring covered retainer securing screws? They need room to float as the top thread goes around the bobbin case. I back mine off 1 full turn for #277 thread and above, or 1/2 turn for smaller thread sizes. If you tightened the screws all the way down, there's no room for the thread to push out the shuttle as it goes around. This adds tension to the top thread and can actually pinch or jam it.

[kgg]

59 minutes ago, TES said:

Could this be a thread tension issue? The top thread takes considerably more pressure to pull thread than does the bobbin thread. When I removed the bobbin shuttle plate, did that release the tension for the bobbin thread?

If your timing is correct and the machine is timed properly I would figure your dealing with a tension problem. Since you removed the bobbin assembly to clear a tangle I am going to assume the problem lies with the bobbin tension. When you removed the bobbin shuttle plate you may have screwed the two screws in tight, which would be incorrect. Screw them in fairly snug and back off about, I think, a 1/4 - 1/2 turn. Since this is a used machine another bobbin problem could be the actual bobbin tensioner spring has at some point been over tighten (will decrease the tension on the thread as it will cause the tensioner to bend away from the bobbin body), has been bent outward by incorrect bobbin threading, the bobbin has been installed incorrectly and the spring in the bobbin case has been damaged.

Even through the following video's are for the Cobra Class 4, which is basically the same machine, it will provide better instructions on installing, threading and tensioning the bobbin thread.

 

kgg

[Northmount]

2 hours ago, TES said:

I have videos but they are too large to post here

Post them on YouTube and in link to them from a post here.  Videos take up a lot of space!

 

[TES]

1 hour ago, Wizcrafts said:

@TES

When you removed and replaced the shuttle retainer plate, did you leave some slack in the spring covered retainer securing screws? They need room to float as the top thread goes around the bobbin case. I back mine off 1 full turn for #277 thread and above, or 1/2 turn for smaller thread sizes. If you tightened the screws all the way down, there's no room for the thread to push out the shuttle as it goes around. This adds tension to the top thread and can actually pinch or jam it.

KGG

If your timing is correct and the machine is timed properly I would figure your dealing with a tension problem. Since you removed the bobbin assembly to clear a tangle I am going to assume the problem lies with the bobbin tension. When you removed the bobbin shuttle plate you may have screwed the two screws in tight, which would be incorrect. Screw them in fairly snug and back off about, I think, a 1/4 - 1/2 turn. Since this is a used machine another bobbin problem could be the actual bobbin tensioner spring has at some point been over tighten (will decrease the tension on the thread as it will cause the tensioner to bend away from the bobbin body), has been bent outward by incorrect bobbin threading, the bobbin has been installed incorrectly and the spring in the bobbin case has been damaged.

Even through the following video's are for the Cobra Class 4, which is basically the same machine, it will provide better instructions on installing, threading and tensioning the bobbin thread.

BINGO!

I tightened those screws tight. 

I'm headed out there in a bit, watch the two videos above and adjust the shuttle retention screws, check it and see how it sews...might need to adjust thread tension....I will follow up.

 

I can't tell you how much I appreciate your help. Very thankful.

Tom

1 hour ago, Wizcrafts said:

 

 

[TES]

I thought that I had erred by overtightening the two screws holding the bobbin shuttle. I bumped them snug and backed off 1/2 turn, and no real luck. The top thread has a lot of tension...fyi.

I uploaded some videos to youtube so you can see what is happening.

 

 

[kgg]

2 hours ago, TES said:

I uploaded some videos to youtube so you can see what is happening.

I looked at your video's and here are my comments:

1.) Your top thread should come directly from the top guide above your thread spool to the second hole in the vertical guide and wrap backwards coming out the fourth hole to the top tensioner.

2.) Your thread at the head appears to be correct.

3.) The shuttle plate appears to be dry and needs a drop of oil inside.

4.) The feed dogs appears to have rust which may indicate other rusted parts which maybe rubbing and cleanup.

5.) When removing an item from under the needle pull out a few inches of top thread first so you are not causing strain on the needle and possibly cause a bucket in the needle.

I would recommend removing the hook to inspect it and the surrounding area as there maybe a burr, needle may have struck the hook at some point, the tip of the hook maybe worn or filed back and need replacement. I would recheck and re-time like they do with the Cobra Class 4. 

A couple of photo's of the hook maybe helpful.

kgg

[AlZilla]

Is the tension arm all the way up when you stop?  Early on in my sewing, I'd have thread seemingly tangled like that and I was just not paying attention to the tension arm position.

[TES]

Thank you all for your comments.

Yes, I didn't loop the top thread through the top guide twice...I was trying to lessen the tension. I have corrected that now.

I have been at this machine all day attempting tension adjustments, videoing and attempting to sew.

I am touching the piece inside the bobbin shuttle that the top thread is looping around on the second stitch every time I sew. It looks like some sort of cam or similar. 

I also have knots showing through the needle holes. I went through the tightening process for the bobbin and got to the point where there was no more takeup in the screw...meaning I could not increase the tension on the bobbin any more and I still had the same knots showing.

I spent two hours loosening/tightening the tension on top and bottom and nothing really corrected my issue with the top thread getting caught on the second stitch...I did get a little improvement on the knots showing throught the needle holes.

I changed needles twice to see if that was the issue, and it did not help.

 

Thanks Al. I'll check that position next time I go out to the machine. 

 

Thanks again for all of your help. 

[Wizcrafts]

On my Cowboy CB4500 and my friend's Cobra Class 4, both of us can back off the top tension disks spring to the point that there is no tension at all. This is the same lack of tension we get when we lift the feet all the way with the hand lifter knob, or foot lifter pedal. When you lift the feet does the tension drop to, or close to zero at the disks?

If the tension can be set to zero at the top disks, can the same be done by backing off the beehive spring on the bottom roller? Standard procedure is to wrap the thread around the bottom roller 1.5 turns. Check the tension as the thread exits the bottom roller.

Move on to the check spring. Is the spring able to move up and down as the take-up lever moves up and down? Inspect the inside of the loop at the end of the spring to see if it has a burr, or is somehow pinching the thread.

Inspect the thread hole in the take-up lever for burrs.

Inspect the lower thread guides, including the thread hole on the needle mounting clamp.

You need to figure out where along the thread patch the tightness is coming from. Maybe it is the spool itself. Is it cross-threaded? Once you are able to set the path to zero tension, balance the top and bottom. You should be able to back off the bobbin tension to a bare minimum and balance the knots.

Make sure you're using the best thread and needle combination. Consult this needle and thread chart.