Been asked to make simple knife sheaths. Please help..

[Northmount]

  On 6/4/2023 at 7:50 PM, billybopp said:

As for Amazon reviews

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@SUP

I have looked up Amazon reviews on a lot of items.  In many cases, there are multiple types and models of stuff all being reviewed in one category, so for the most part, the reviews are useless.

 

[fredk]

Back onto subject; I too have a Tippmann Boss. But I've not yet used it in anger. Two things I can't get my head around is that its a lock-stitch and uses much thinner thread than wot I use for hand sewing. I suppose the lockstitch could be ok and using the Boss would be quicker but I'm rather stupid in thinking that my hand sewing saddle stitch is superior and somehow the lockstitch with thinner thread would make my 'hand-made' items inferior and just 'not as good'    

However - I have some items I want to make in thick leather so I'm going 'half-way house' with the Boss. I'll use it to make the holes for me to saddle stitch. Clever, eh, ? I bet none of youse ever thought of doing that!     

[kgg]

  On 6/4/2023 at 6:10 PM, SUP said:

About machines, my husband  thinks I should investigate getting one, not for a business but for ease of making the things I want - I have arthritis so he worries my hands will ache.

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I would definitely investigate getting a machine particularly since hand stitching will probably aggravate your arthritis. My mother use to love to sew all sorts of garments, hand knitted everything from socks to heavy real wool sweaters and use sign language for her day job. When she turned about 50 her arthritis got so bad she could hardly sign anymore let allow sew or knit. My advice is put the needles down and get a sewing machine to reduce the stress on your hands.

Determine what items you would like to sew and what items you eventually would like to sew and purchase a motorized sewing machine accordingly. I think the one armed bandits like the Tippmann Boss ($1000 - $1575 USD) , Cowboy Outlaw ($1400 USD) and the Master Tool Cub by Weaver ($2000 USD) will also aggravate your arthritis but not as bad as hand stitching will eventually.

  On 6/4/2023 at 7:50 PM, billybopp said:

As for Amazon reviews,

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I look at the bottom rating reviews for items, the ones giving the bottom end reviews. I think those probably give a more accurate view of what to expect.

kgg

[SUP]

@kgg, I gather the 3 machines you mentioned are manual ones? The motorized ones will be much more expensive. I know I have heard of Consew but there are so many of them. Also I believe Singer has some sturdy ones.. are they sturdy enough for leatherwork?

I only plan to make bags, footwear, knife sheaths - simple ones. I know I will not make saddles, chaps etc.

I have been looking up Consew to start. On their site, there are so many options, it is bewildering. Are there specific requirements that are a must when selecting a machine?

I think I need to investigate the threads here about sewing machines. 

The thing is, hand stitching leather is, for me, a relaxing activity. The fragrance of the leather, the waxed thread, my large stitching horse, the rhythmic movements of stitching .. I do it when I am tired and it rejuvenates me. So a machine might take away all that. But needs must, I suppose. 

@Fredk, great idea to use it for holes for stitching. Sometimes that is more time consuming and a bit of a pain.

Edited June 4, 2023 by SUP

[AlZilla]

  On 6/4/2023 at 6:10 PM, SUP said:

About machines, my husband  thinks I should investigate getting one, not for a business but for ease of making the things I want

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My friend, you are now standing at the top of a slippery slope.  Here's how it goes... For so much money you can get machine X that will do what you need. But look, for another couple hundred, you can get machine Y that does another thing you might need.  You're this far, so what about another little bit for machine Z?  The hook for me was a 16" cylinder arm, you know, just in case I ever want to make a western style gun belt, so I have enough room to turn it.

It took me the better part of a day to disassemble that giant sewing machine, drag it up the narrow, steep stairs and reassemble it all...

Yes indeed. I'm ready to make that gun belt now ...

Now, I want an Outlaw so I can set up a mobile workshop! Not that I have anywhere to go sew leather, but wouldn't it be cool?

[SUP]

LOL. @AlZilla, you hit the nail on the head! That is exactly what I was thinking! What do I really need when selecting a machine and what will be 'nice to have' in case I need it in the future. And since I have only just made my first belt today, I have a long way to go and everything is 'in case I need to make..."!

 

Edited June 4, 2023 by SUP

[mike02130]

How about just making one or two by hand with the tools you have and see how that goes, then you'll be better able to figure out a price.  If the guy's in no hurry then perhaps they can be spread out over time?  Keep in mind that if each one is different then you'll spend a lot of time making patterns.

[AlZilla]

  On 6/4/2023 at 9:59 PM, SUP said:

LOL. @AlZilla, you hit the nail on the head! That is exactly what I was thinking! What do I really need when selecting a machine and what will be 'nice to have' in case I need it in the future. And since I have only just made my first belt today, I have a long way to go and everything is 'in case I need to make..."!

 

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This is the definitive post on evaluating what sewing machine you need:

You said footwear, bags and knife sheaths. That means a cylinder arm machine like the ones I linked earlier.  There are many other cylinder arm types, but those are as good as any and easy to find knowledgeable support and reputable dealers.

[SUP]

That is very true. I have absolutely no idea about the types of knives. I think I will do that. 

[SUP]

@AlZilla, thank you for that post. It is just what I need. Will be immersed in that for a while now, I think. I will keep in mind about the cylinder arm machine as well.

[kgg]

  On 6/4/2023 at 9:54 PM, SUP said:

I gather the 3 machines you mentioned are manual ones? The motorized ones will be much more expensive.

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Yes those machines are all manual machines.

  On 6/4/2023 at 9:54 PM, SUP said:

Also I believe Singer has some sturdy ones.

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Singer no longer and hasn't for many years made industrial sewing machines that I'm aware of.

  On 6/4/2023 at 9:54 PM, SUP said:

I only plan to make bags, footwear, knife sheaths - simple ones. I know I will not make saddles, chaps etc.

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This narrows the field down for sewing machines. If you only want one machine a sort of all rounder machine would be a cylinder arm machine with a flatbed attachment. You can do items that are best done with a flatbed sewing machine (example: wallets) as well as items done with a cylinder arm that are circular.

Then there is the dollar factor. Depending on how thick your leather will be including the seams an excellent machine would be a Juki LS -1341 or a clone machine. The Juki LS-1341 new will cost about $5200 USD while a clone of the older Juki LS-341 will cost about $2500 USD. Juki is the typical machines that the clones copy. So accessories like binding attachments and parts are readily available at reasonable prices.

Then there is the used market for both brand name and clone machines which can be had from either a dealer / repair shop or the owner directly. I would suggest getting one from a dealer that has been gone over unless you or you know someone that can properly evaluate a used machine. 

The only thing is the footwear part of what you want to make as this has a very broad range from slippers to workboots and everything in between ?????

kgg

[fredk]

Think on this; generally a sewing machine with an electric motor can be used manually, but its harder to convert a manual only sewing machine to take an electric motor

I chose the manual only Boss because it suited my needs

Also look at both the 'foot print' and the weight of the machine. One machine I fancied, could afford, needed its own table that would have taken up almost half of my living room where I do my sewing

[SUP]

@kgg, Foot wear I only plan to make moccasins and slippers. I do not have the patience or the desire right now to start with making lasts for boots and shoes. Besides, we get plenty of them that are good. It is open toed slippers that I like and want to make specific types.

So from what you and AlZilla said, an all-rounder machine  might be the way to go. I am still in two minds though.  I feel I cannot, in good conscience, spend so much until I actually am in the position to use it. Else it will join my Brother sewing machine and Rocketeer as a curio - all expensive curios - that I plan to use but never get the time. 

[SUP]

@fredk, that is a valid point! Sometimes in my enthusiasm, I forget practical aspects like space and weight of the item.  I should remember that when considering a machine. 

[kgg]

  On 6/5/2023 at 12:26 AM, SUP said:

Foot wear I only plan to make moccasins and slippers.

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The Juki LS-1341 or similar clones should fit what you want to make.

When the time is right it and you feel you can use a machine, manual or motorized, at least now you have a starting point of information.

kgg

[Baliskner1]

Hi

Brand new here.

Usually when I am asked to make a knife sheath I charge about $15 per. I can usually make it out of small parts from other projects. But that is my friends and family rate... 

[SUP]

@kgg, yes. I needed that starting point. Now I can keep looking until I am ready to buy. It is better this way.

@Baliskner, yes $15 is fine for friends and family. Usually, it is just the cost of the raw material is it not? But for others, maybe leatherworkers should educate the public about the work that goes into making leather items. They seems to think it is  of less value than the cheap merchandise from the East. 

Edited June 5, 2023 by SUP

[Klara]

  On 6/4/2023 at 9:54 PM, SUP said:

....

The thing is, hand stitching leather is, for me, a relaxing activity. The fragrance of the leather, the waxed thread, my large stitching horse, the rhythmic movements of stitching .. I do it when I am tired and it rejuvenates me. So a machine might take away all that. But needs must, I suppose. 

...

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I am assuming that you don't live a self-sufficiency lifestyle in the middle of nowhere but are perfectly able to buy slippers if you should urgently need a pair. Then there is no "needs must". You can make what you want to make and your hands can take and buy (or do without) things you don't enjoy making or that you need urgently when your hands feel bad.  

If you enjoy handsewing (l do  as well), there is no need to buy a machine. Certainly not to make things for a neighbour who does not seem to appreciate good leatherwork at its just value. You could always offer to teach him how to make the sheaths himself.

Edited June 5, 2023 by Klara

[SUP]

@Klara Yes, I am living in a city with everything close available  by.

I plan to continue hand stitching but may buy a machine in the future. Hearing that I do leatherwork, my daughter wants  things made by her mum. I want to make things for my husband and her and her fiance (nothing as satisfying as having loved ones using things that are your labor of love) and family and friends are slowly dropping hints too! So unless I buy a machine to speed up things, I will have to keep turning people down. 

As for John, who wants inexpensive knife sheaths, I asked him why he did not make them himself. He said he had thought about it but then decided against it.  Maybe I could offer to teach him. 

[dikman]

  On 6/4/2023 at 8:47 PM, fredk said:

I'll use it to make the holes for me to saddle stitch. Clever, eh, ? I bet none of youse ever thought of doing that!     

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Sorry to burst your bubble, Fred, but I did that not long after I started leatherwork. I started off making holsters (no messing around for me, straight in the deep end  ) and used a Singer 201 domestic machine to pre-punch the holes. I could only do one layer at a time and it took a bit of juggling lining up the holes but it gave me nice straight, evenly spaced holes for the awl to go through. I made a few holsters and gunbelts using that method.

SUP, hand-stitching knife sheaths obviously won't be as fast as using a machine but they are relatively easy compared to holsters/gunbelts AND a saddle-stitch is far superior to a machine lockstitch. There is something intrinsically satisfying about hand-stitching a product but once you have to charge for your time you are in trouble as very few will pay the rate required. As long as it's only a hobby you can get away with it, in my case I covered my material costs and made a bit extra but I made them for fellow club members so wasn't concerned with getting the going rate for my labour. My wife said I'm not very good at charging for work I do.

[fredk]

  On 6/5/2023 at 11:33 PM, dikman said:

Sorry to burst your bubble, Fred, but I did that not long after I started leatherwork. I started off making holsters (no messing around for me, straight in the deep end  ) and used a Singer 201 domestic machine to pre-punch the holes. I could only do one layer at a time and it took a bit of juggling lining up the holes but it gave me nice straight, evenly spaced holes for the awl to go through. I made a few holsters and gunbelts using that method.

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Ach, durn it, I was gontae patent my method !   

[SUP]

@ dikman, I agree. I doubt John will pay much for the time taken to hand-stitch.  If was a couple of sheaths, I might have agreed to a lower price but so many? It will be maddening and it could end up putting me off leatherwork. 

I am more and more wondering about the whole thing.

And I see your point about pricing - I feel odd too, quoting a fair price. One of the many reasons I have refused to make anything for anyone outside family up to this point. Of course, that I do not have sufficient experience to make more than simple moccasins, bags and knife sheaths is another reason but why say that? LOL

[Klara]

  On 6/5/2023 at 8:21 PM, SUP said:

@Klara ...So unless I buy a machine to speed up things, I will have to keep turning people down. ...

 

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By all means, buy a machine if you want to and think you will enjoy using it. But if you prefer to handsew, there is nothing wrong with starting a waiting list for your loved ones and filling it at your own speed...

[SUP]

Yes. That is the sensible thing to do. Regardless of whether I buy a machine or not, a waiting list is needed.

I am still reluctant to buy a machine at this point. I hate to spend unless absolutely necessary. Keeping friends and family happy can be done only up to a point. Maybe I should offer to teach them as well!

[AlZilla]

I think, @SUP, in this case some education would go a long way. First, with 100+ knives, I think it's unlikely he has high end knives worthy of hand crafted, bespoke sheaths.  Which is my second point, that there's a big difference between a Savile Row suit and one from JC Penny, though to the average person they look similar.

Make your husband a really nice knife sheath. There's plenty of inspiration in these pages. Stamp it, carve it, inlay it, something nice. Finish the edges beautifully. Then your potential customer might see the difference between your work and a Genuine Split Grain Pleather, mass produced sheath.  Maybe he even has a knife or two worthy of your level of craftsmanship.