Pfaff 345 / Bringing it back from the dead

[karmazine]

Hello,

I am a newbie to the forum. Thank you for inviting me in.

I appreciate this forum for a few years reading many helpfull stuff here and learning, but I joined only now when I bought out this Pfaff 345.

I literaly saved it from the forge at the scrap yard. It sews, but now I am in the process of cleaning and finding what parts are missing.

The code plate puzzles me. I get what H3 and CLN means, but the rest is unclear. It seems the low feed dogs are only going forward and backward, not up/down which leads me to think it was for binding with the binding attachment.

Also the needle inserted is Nm100 which is way too small. I plan to sew leather in the future, but for now this size suits me well for fabric use. I understand especially considering the bigger lenght of the needle that the risk of breakage is higher. I guess the factory where it was used did no leather (they sew blankets) so they adjusted the hook to this size.

1) For future readjustment: did I got it right that I need to undo the shaft(s) below the hook to get access to the screws which holds the hook, and then replace shafts + readjust the gears?

2) Regarding cleaning: I used regular motor gasoline. It was so dirty I seems right to spray it and brush the loads of dirt and dried oil away. It is almost not rusted, I found a little bit of rust on the shaft entering the casting (from behind the head, where the linkage to the feed arm goes). Thinking of using wd-40, spinning it, blow air to get oil+rust out and then lubricate with sewing machine oil. For now I am not willing to take it apart fully to clean perfectly.

3) I found some specification on viscosity of oil and penetration of the vaseline in the old Pfaff manual. They rarely show that info on the currently made sewing oils (why not?!). Most sewing techs here says oil viscosity does not matter much. I always spend loads of time searching. So I have three oils: one very thin for overlock, one a bit thicker for very old interlock and now something in between for the newest KM-640.

I plan to at least google the vaseline specs, since its viscosity and other properties could affect the easiness of the machine operation. Too sticky stuff is not good here I guess.

 

 

[karmazine]

Wanted to avoid too lenghty post, so I divided it. Could you please someone ( @Uwe @Trox, ...) check for me that I am hunting for the right parts?

A) I am missing the presser bar (hand) lifter and attaching screw. I understand its sizing depends on the H2-H6 model, but there was only one option in the 345 parts catalogue.

B)  Lifting lever bracket which connects the bar to the lever which undo the hand lifter AND pushes the pin to release the tension (this pin also needed) is not in the 345 catalogue, I found it in the 545 catalogue, the H3 version I hope should fit... ?

C) I do not have the lip on the lower cover: 91-014 031-05. I think it is not necessary, only aesthetics?

D) The arm cover and bed extension are broken. If I am not able to buy replacements I consider welding them. I have stick electrodes for cast iron or maybe is better to brass braze it to introduce less heat / warping? Since both are easily undoable from the machine I can pre and post heat them.

 

Thank you very much!

[Trox]

Here is the subclass listkgi582aa.pdf

[Trox]

I have big trouble sharing/uploading stuff here today, I'm on my phone. Guess I'm out of practice, I spend most of my time online on Facebook. However the subclass is H3-17/01 it's set up for regular binding. This is a list of gouge parts and the numbers refers to what feet's, needle plate and equipment it's set up with. It's not easy to get a overview over Pfaff's old codes and sewing equipment numbers. I don't think there are anybody working in Pfaff today that know these anymore. Pfaff sent me these manuals and lists years ago. I've done my best to share it with you people in this forum. Do you have the 345-H3 part list? All the parts are listed in that part list. The presser bar lifting lever/arm in your pic isn't the right one for the 345-H3. It's a intricate system of lever's that makes a geared presser bar lift. But you don not necessarily need all of that. They are there to make it easier to lift. There are also a hole in the base head that can accommodate a chain for a regular un assisted lift. You better show us a pic of the backside, it's easier to see it for ourselves. You better hope you will find a donor machine, if these parts should still be available; they will cost you more than a new  Chinese machine.

[karmazine]

Hello Trox,

Thank you for the reply! I was out and had only a few minutes in the workshop to take the pictures and go.

I had the subclass list but only in text form and less detailed. I try to decipher the 913/52, it should be hidden in the new pdf somewhere.

Anyway, I saw the machine only few minutes today, but found out that the feed dogs are definately not from the binding version (they have ribs, and number 44080 C).

As always it could be usefull to double check if and/or to what extent the machine relates the name/type plate. Someone could swap part in the past.

 

The part list I have is originaly from your upload here (I think. filename 5ao8mf6d ). It seems to be general, not H3 specific.

The parts around the lifting lever that I need are not there at all. Could you please upload it too?

 

Photos attached. If you need me to shoot something specific I can take it tomorrow.

 

Thank you!

 

 

[Northmount]

On 6/8/2023 at 1:30 AM, karmazine said:

I plan to at least google the vaseline specs

I suppose that you mean grease rather than Vaseline and that this is just a quirk in translation?  Another name for Vaseline is Petroleum Jelly.  Not usually used as a lubricant in machinery.

[karmazine]

Sorry, my error > wrong translation. I meant grease. Its called vaseline in my native language.. :-D

 

[billybopp]

35 minutes ago, Northmount said:

I suppose that you mean grease rather than Vaseline and that this is just a quirk in translation?  Another name for Vaseline is Petroleum Jelly.  Not usually used as a lubricant in machinery.

Getting those two crossed up in the wrong situation could be a REALLY big problem!!   LOL

- BIll

[karmazine]

7 hours ago, billybopp said:

Getting those two crossed up in the wrong situation could be a REALLY big problem!!   LOL

- BIll

Muhehe. Thinking about which part of this missmatch is worse... ;D

[karmazine]

Hello,

@Trox

I googled 345-H3 specific parts list for maybe an hour and nothing..   Only thing I found other that I already had is 345-6 parts list from 1955. It shocked me a bit, I thought this machine is from the 60-70ties.

Tomorrow I have appointed phonecall from two parts dealers from Poland, so I am at my wits end: I do not know the exact part numbers I need.

I do not mean to push you, it is your free time to spare here on other people's problems.. ...But the H3 parts list and/or advice would help me a lot!

Also I have possibility to buy used but fully working Pfaff 335 H2 for very modest cost (210 Eur), but I think it is to too weak for leather and the number of usable/interchangeable parts is limited.

Sorry again for being annoying.

Thank you!

 

[Trox]

5ao8mf6d.pdf

[kgg]

4 hours ago, karmazine said:

Also I have possibility to buy used but fully working Pfaff 335 H2 for very modest cost (210 Eur),

You may want to first compare the parts list for the H2 and H3 and see what parts are the same that you need. It maybe cheaper to buy the H2 just for the parts rather then buying new parts.

kgg

[Trox]

You are not the only one that writes to me for advise, I do the best I can on my time off.

I this is the only 345 H3 partlist I got. That's the only one I've seen. I see that the part # 91-010 378-45 isn't in the document. That's because the pdf is newer or older that the machine, they've changed the foot lift arm and use the parts in the pic below instead. If the document are older or newer than our machines, I don't know.

I doubt your able to find any of these parts new anyway. That means you have to search for the # 91-010 378-45 instead. If your going to use the other parts in the partlist below, you also have to change the arm. Alternately drill and tap for the new part. You just got to get what you find. All the geared levers in the pic 1 isn't necessary, don't use time on them; just run a chain directly from the end of the arm you have to a pedal. If you find them it's a bonus. The other parts you need are in the part list. In the world of industrial sewing machines, machines get changed all the time. Part lists gets updated by the producer only when it's supported. This machine is now obsolete, they don't support it any more and they're not obligated stock part for it anymore. Today Pfaff doesn't have anything for these of machines, the only ones that has something for them are companies like College I.s.m. https://www.college-sewing.co.uk/parts-books/pfaff-parts-books.html (They have pdf, aftermarket parts like hooks, feet's and common wear part)

When it comes to what feed dog it is in your machine, that's depending of those last numbers in your subclass number. It's the same feed dog in mine.  You best hope is to find a donor machine, non of the parts your looking for are made anymore. It shouldn't be to difficult to make these parts, the hand lifter and the angle iron can easily be made from a piece of flat iron, just som cutting drilling and filing. I believe your goal are to get it sewing, not get it in showroom condition. If your lucky to find some parts, be prepared to modify them to fit. That's how we all have to do it. Maybe you find something in Poland, if anywhere in the world that would be the best place to look yes. 

Good luck

Tor

[Trox]

Here are som pics from back if machine. Quality is what expected when there's limit space behind it, Im not moving it out from the wall to get better pictures. This is the needle plate this came with, the binder parts are extras.

[Trox]

Here are the binder parts. The binder plate attachment to the right in pic 2, I've made myself. The syncro plate in pic 3 is Pfaff. Pfaff quoted me these parts  some 10 years back and they wanted 1100 USD for the needle plate, feed dog and syncro plate. That's was about 10 years ago, imagine what they will cost today ( if they're available) Anyway, A friend gifted me the feed dog, the small binder and the back foot. Binders, front foot are Kwokhing. These parts where available then, I've haven't had the need for anymore Pfaff parts, so I don't know what's available today. Older Pfaff parts are very expensive, that's why I brought up the donor machine option. It could be that many of the parts you need are the same on other Pfaff model's. Old 335, 145 and 545 have the same upper arm, I believe some of the postbed models also have.

[Trox]

1 hour ago, kgg said:

You may want to first compare the parts list for the H2 and H3 and see what parts are the same that you need. It maybe cheaper to buy the H2 just for the parts rather then buying new parts.

kgg

I agree, I've been saying the same thing. If the country his searching in was all other than Poland. I would say; save your phone fare. It could be he finds something there. Otherwise buy that H2, that's would be the cheapest option. depended of how far it has to be shipped of course. Older Pfaff parts are expensive and he could use much from such a machine. 

[karmazine]

Hello Tor,

Thank you very much. I did not wanted to push you into complex reply (or into anything at all! It is your kindnes that no one can demand.). I am very grateful!

In your former post you were asking if I have 345 H3 parts list it seemed to me that you do have a different parts list than me (I thought that what I have is standard 345 non H3 specific list).

Therefore it seemed to me that I am reading data from "wrong" document.

Because the Poles are "sewing superpower" (at least compared to the Czech republic) I expect at least one of the two companies could have something. I have been told they both specialize in old machines. But situation when I buy costy parts that do not fit at all is obviously not desirable. Of coarse — my machine = my risk.  

 

I uderstand that for that antique machine I would be lucky to get anything at all. I am not hunting for original/new parts. Donor machine is ideal if it contains enough usable parts.

I am more than ready to adjust or even manufacture many things. The foot/presser hand lever is ok, I plan to cut it with laser from sheet metal. Much easier would be to get its photo and dimensions. I think I will be able to get dimensions from Pfaff 545 (hopefuly H3) which owns my online friend. Even easier it is with the tension release pin. I only need the dimensions, and even If I do not find them I can try it longer and grind.

KGG> Problem of comparing H2 vs H3 parts is a bit complicated. Since we do not have 345 parts list specific to respective H models I have to stick to 545 and other models parts lists where I can look up the part numbers of the particular H model. I would be easy in person, but that is something I can only dream about.. :-D

My current understanding is that H2 has lower lift, so the lifter handle (91-10 735-15) and Lshaped connecting part 91-010 738-45 (both from pfaff 545 list) will have different dimensions since the feet lift is different.

The H2 I was offered is relatively far away from me. And most important it is 335, not 345. So for now I would only possibly use the arm cover (91-10 617-75/995) and the bed extension. Since I do not need to keep everything original I will try to weld these two parts. Some of the other parts could be found usable in the future, so I am still considering buying the 335 H2 donor (I would also feel a bit guilty to salvage parts from machine head which works nicely, but that's life... :))

 

Thank you for the pictures. There are few minor different details, but your machine looks very similar to mine.

The binder adendum is also useful. Plan to try it in the future, but first I want to run the machine as is.

 

Thank you again!

 

 

[karmazine]

Sorry Trox, I forgot to reply to all of the hints..

On 6/8/2023 at 4:37 PM, Trox said:

The presser bar lifting lever/arm in your pic isn't the right one for the 345-H3

You mean that 31-010 735-15 ? It is from the 345 catalogue, I dont get it..

OR you mean Lshaped bar tension release linkage: 91-010 738-45 ? Since it is not in the 345 catalogue, I looked this up from the 545 H3. That is wrong?

[karmazine]

17 hours ago, Trox said:

I see that the part # 91-010 378-45 isn't in the document.

You mean 91-010 738-45? That is the one from 545 H3 catalogue

 

18 hours ago, Trox said:

If your going to use the other parts in the partlist below, you also have to change the arm.

 

[DonInReno]

On 6/8/2023 at 12:43 AM, karmazine said:

D) The arm cover and bed extension are broken. If I am not able to buy replacements I consider welding them. I have stick electrodes for cast iron or maybe is better to brass braze it to introduce less heat / warping? Since both are easily undoable from the machine I can pre and post heat them.

I’m more familiar with brass/bronze brazing so that’s what I’ve used in the past.  After beveling the joint and grinding out any small cracks, you’ll want to heat the area well to burn out oil that is hiding in the pores and small cracks you didn’t catch originally, then finish prepping the area before fluxing.

In general there is no big advantage to either brazing brass/bronze or welding with nickel welding rods - I’d use what you’re most familiar with.   On larger parts there is an advantage to welding with nickel since gas welding setups have a hard time producing enough heat in deep grooves and inside corners. 

Sewing machines are often made with ductile iron so it can bend a little before cracking - before sinking a lot of time and effort into fixing the small bits, I’d carefully check the alignment of the arm - it might not be worth fixing if you have to cut the arm off and reattach to fix an alignment problem due to a bend.

edit:  What do you mean by bed extension is broken?   Maybe I just missed that in the photos.

Edited June 13, 2023 by DonInReno

[Trox]

I try to explain this again. You do not need to change this lever (pic 1) Just run a chain from the lever true the hole in the base, see arrow pic 1. Drill a corresponding hole in the table and run a chain to the pedal.

Pic 2:

I don't know where you found this underlined part, it looks like it fits so it's probably the same. If you find it that's great, if not it's simple to make. If it's to long or to short, modify it. I would just make it, that would be much faster than even write a post about it.

Pic 3:

You see this isn't the same presser foot lifting lever/arm as on our machines, so you can't use the angle iron part from this one without changing the arm/lever to. The design is changed, I would think the one in my part list is a later design; because it allows a height adjustment. Just use the arm in pic 1 you already have.. You don't need the geared linkage who's probably there to making it easier to lift with a knee lever lift. It's not necessary! Not even if you have a knee lifter, it's not a heavy lift.

There is nothing wrong with your presser foot lifting lever/arm!? You don't need messing with that geared assisted linkage, there are plenty of Pfaff machines that didn't come with that extra feature.

 

[Trox]

45 minutes ago, DonInReno said:

I’m more familiar with brass/bronze brazing so that’s what I’ve used in the past.  After beveling the joint and grinding out any small cracks, you’ll want to heat the area well to burn out oil that is hiding in the pores and small cracks you didn’t catch originally, then finish prepping the area before fluxing.

In general there is no big advantage to either brazing brass/bronze or welding with nickel welding rods - I’d use what you’re most familiar with.   On larger parts there is an advantage to welding with nickel since gas welding setups have a hard time producing enough heat in deep grooves and inside corners. 

Sewing machines are often made with ductile iron so it can bend a little before cracking - before sinking a lot of time and effort into fixing the small bits, I’d carefully check the alignment of the arm - it might not be worth fixing if you have to cut the arm off and reattach to fix an alignment problem due to a bend.

edit:  What do you mean by bed extension is broken?   Maybe I just missed that in the photos.

Thanks but he don't need that part fixed, it's just a extra feature for handicapped people who can't lift more than 200 grams. Nothing wrong with handicapped people, but it's not worth using time fixing; this the machine will work just fine without it. Most machines doesn't have this feature, anyway. I won't use anymore time on this. 

Edited June 13, 2023 by Trox

[karmazine]

7 hours ago, DonInReno said:

I’m more familiar with brass/bronze brazing so that’s what I’ve used in the past.  After beveling the joint and grinding out any small cracks, you’ll want to heat the area well to burn out oil that is hiding in the pores and small cracks you didn’t catch originally, then finish prepping the area before fluxing.

In general there is no big advantage to either brazing brass/bronze or welding with nickel welding rods - I’d use what you’re most familiar with.   On larger parts there is an advantage to welding with nickel since gas welding setups have a hard time producing enough heat in deep grooves and inside corners. 

Sewing machines are often made with ductile iron so it can bend a little before cracking - before sinking a lot of time and effort into fixing the small bits, I’d carefully check the alignment of the arm - it might not be worth fixing if you have to cut the arm off and reattach to fix an alignment problem due to a bend.

edit:  What do you mean by bed extension is broken?   Maybe I just missed that in the photos.

Thank you for the info. I am more used to welding, but not much on cast iron. Some variants are almost unweldable (high graphite content, so only brazing possible). I was hoping someone (you!  ) had experience or information about it.

If the iron is bendable, it is for sure weldable. I was also thinking about welding the lowest spot of the "valley" created by the grinded bevel with TIG, and contiue with nickel electrodes, but it is usually done on engine blocks and similar complex stuff. So for now I am up to grind all the paint with wirewheel and pre and post heat it in the electric furnace and use just the nickel stick electrodes.

The crack is clean "snap" with no bends, and even if it warps during the proces, It is no big deal since the linking part is the lever with ball joint on each side which should take care of possible slight missalignement.

So the only concerning part is that the crack goes thru one of the mounting holes. I think welding over the mounting hole and re-drilling is safer and more clean way.

 

Broken part of the bed extension is visible on the attached photo. I think I will leave it as is and drill a new mounting hole as close as reasonably possible to the corner/crack.

Maybe even three bolts should hold it enough — only stress is during maintenance  when using the massive hinge to inspect/service the lower parts which is not that much often done I think.

 

 

Edited June 13, 2023 by karmazine

[karmazine]

5 hours ago, Trox said:

I try to explain this again. You do not need to change this lever (pic 1) Just run a chain from the lever true the hole in the base, see arrow pic 1. Drill a corresponding hole in the table and run a chain to the pedal.

Pic 2:

I don't know where you found this underlined part, it looks like it fits so it's probably the same. If you find it that's great, if not it's simple to make. If it's to long or to short, modify it. I would just make it, that would be much faster than even write a post about it.

Pic 3:

You see this isn't the same presser foot lifting lever/arm as on our machines, so you can't use the angle iron part from this one without changing the arm/lever to. The design is changed, I would think the one in my part list is a later design; because it allows a height adjustment. Just use the arm in pic 1 you already have.. You don't need the geared linkage who's probably there to making it easier to lift with a knee lever lift. It's not necessary! Not even if you have a knee lifter, it's not a heavy lift.

There is nothing wrong with your presser foot lifting lever/arm!? You don't need messing with that geared assisted linkage, there are plenty of Pfaff machines that didn't come with that extra feature.

 

 

I understood partly but now I finaly got how you meant it. I thought that the spring attached to the arm cover is more important than really it is (not at all).

I was thinking about attaching the chain or steel bar directly so I was a little bit confused by your sugestion of changing the whole arm. 

I understand that the time this repair (welding of the broken cover) kills is not worth it, but I like welding and take this as a challenge and possibility to learn a bit about welding cast iron. If I succeed I have a new ability and a bonus is that assisted lifting for which my wife would surely be grateful since she is tiny.  

If I screw it I can always revert to linking it directly as you proposed. And I can skip the hand lifter — it is not necessary.

 

Manufacturing of the angled linkage (your pic 2) is no problem.

I would not be hunting for it if it was the only part missing. Since there were more I was tending more towards sourcing the donor machine or used parts. I was too naive to think there could be enough of them floating around.. :-D Now I know I was wrong. The machine is possibly much older than I thought. 

Again thank you for your replies and patience! If you in the future come into (unlikely) situation of needing something from my home bannana republic, let me know.

 

 

[karmazine]

If I didn't annoy you totally with my silly questions:

How easy should this machine go handcranking it with no threads/materials and feet lift up? For now it is  sprayed all over with WD40 (to dissolve all the remains of old oil) and It rotates fine, but If I spin the wheel it stops almost instantly.

I am used only to the Singer 66 which spins at least one, maybe more revolutions if I give the handweel a strike. I think this should go similary nice. Or the aditional friction of the compound feed, etc. eat it?

No moving part feel like blocking/grinding. I plan to let it sit for while, maybe spin it a bit with the motor and flush/change the oil for real oil and grease.