Leather in ancient armor

[billybopp]

I came across this video yesterday, and found it interesting.  This whole series by Adam Savage visiting behind the scenes at the armor department of the Metropolitan Museum of Art in NYC has been great, but this one has a fair amount of leather work included.  The metal work is pretty amazing too - I noticed on the really fancy gauntlet that the background work is almost exactly like bar grounding that we use in leather, and makes me wonder if leather work adopted it from metal work?   There is also an interesting discussion on some of the preservation problems with mixed materials.  Also of note is the desktop catapult behind the curator! 

- Bill

 

 

[Tugadude]

Thanks for sharing this!  Always fun to watch these sorts of things.

Regarding tools, imagine how hard it was to obtain them back in the day.  Many were probably made by the artisan themselves, and some by the local blacksmith, if there was one.  I'm sure there was lots of overlap, using the same tools on metal, leather and even wood.  

What's cool is that this continues to this day, with several here at this forum able to fabricate their own tools, knives, etc., in addition to leatherworking.  

That's one of the things that has always impressed me, resourcefulness.  My father was a farmer and I remember him telling me about the ways they had to do things in order to just get by.  There were no stores where they could buy replacement parts for their farm implements, so they frequently had to jury rig something just to keep working.  Ingenuity and resolve abounded.

Humans are capable of quite a lot.  More than many know.  

[chuck123wapati]

you guys will love this series.   true craftsmen do still exist.

 

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, Tugadude said:

Thanks for sharing this!  Always fun to watch these sorts of things.

Regarding tools, imagine how hard it was to obtain them back in the day.  Many were probably made by the artisan themselves, and some by the local blacksmith, if there was one.  I'm sure there was lots of overlap, using the same tools on metal, leather and even wood.  

What's cool is that this continues to this day, with several here at this forum able to fabricate their own tools, knives, etc., in addition to leatherworking.  

That's one of the things that has always impressed me, resourcefulness.  My father was a farmer and I remember him telling me about the ways they had to do things in order to just get by.  There were no stores where they could buy replacement parts for their farm implements, so they frequently had to jury rig something just to keep working.  Ingenuity and resolve abounded.

Humans are capable of quite a lot.  More than many know.  

my dad was a mechanic, grew up on ranches, he would spend a big portion of his summer weekends and after work going out to the ranches and fixing up their haying machines and equipment most had nice shops with about every type tool you would need. I used to love to go along and watch him and help out. You would be surprised how many things you can fix with a simple nail lol.

[chuck123wapati]

just watched this episode on saddle making its friggin awesome you will learn how to use round knife in two seconds.

 

[Tugadude]

Thanks Chuck!  She is wicked smart.  Reminds me of my Aunt, who was always a step ahead of most folk.

That was time well spent.

[Sheilajeanne]

Hey, that's the guy from Mythbusters! Will have to give these a watch...

Edit: I just noticed the armourer has a small trebuchet on his workbench! Obviously his job is not all serious work...  

Edited June 27, 2023 by Sheilajeanne

[fredk]

44 minutes ago, Sheilajeanne said:

Edit: I just noticed the armourer has a small trebuchet on his workbench! Obviously his job is not all serious work...  

I believe that is actually a catapult, A trebuchet works differently, with a sling

A catapult

 

A trebuchet

Notice the different lengths of the main arm. The one in the video appears to have only the one long arm for the missile whereas a treb has one short arm for the drop weight and a longer arm with a sling for the missile

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, Tugadude said:

Thanks Chuck!  She is wicked smart.  Reminds me of my Aunt, who was always a step ahead of most folk.

That was time well spent.

What i like are all the episodes no matter the craft are full of inspiration to do what you love to the best of your ability.

 

21 minutes ago, fredk said:

I believe that is actually a catapult, A trebuchet works differently, with a sling

A catapult

 

A trebuchet

Notice the different lengths of the main arm. The one in the video appears to have only the one long arm for the missile whereas a treb has one short arm for the drop weight and a longer arm with a sling for the missile

yup a catapult used spring type tension from wound ropes whereas the treb used free falling weight as a the driving force and threw the stone basically like a slingshot. they have pumpkin tossing tournaments in the US using these old things.

[Sheilajeanne]

Right, Fred.

Chuck that is indeed an awesome video! I bought a round knife, and never felt comfortable using it, as I think the handle is too long for my hand. But after watching her, I may give it another try!

 

[billybopp]

13 hours ago, fredk said:

I believe that is actually a catapult, A trebuchet works differently, with a sling

A catapult

 

A trebuchet

Notice the different lengths of the main arm. The one in the video appears to have only the one long arm for the missile whereas a treb has one short arm for the drop weight and a longer arm with a sling for the missile

I thought it was a trebuchet at first too but curiosity got the better of me, so I paused the video and took a closer look!   LOL!

- Bill

[Tugadude]

13 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

What i like are all the episodes no matter the craft are full of inspiration to do what you love to the best of your ability.

 

yup a catapult used spring type tension from wound ropes whereas the treb used free falling weight as a the driving force and threw the stone basically like a slingshot. they have pumpkin tossing tournaments in the US using these old things.

The host reminds me of Val Kilmer in Tombstone.  Definitely some resemblance there.

Another thing my father taught me was the old waste not, want not.  it does come along with some drawbacks, namely a tendency to hoard, but it has saved me time and again.  

As long as I'm sharing stories of my father, another thing I recall is when he told me about how all of the farmers would help each other.  When someone's barn burnt to the ground, they would go through the ashes and collect as many of the nails as they could find.  They'd straighten them and reuse them.  My father showed me how, and I still do it to this day.  

[Tugadude]

Another thing that I thought was really sweet was how Charon talked about the comfort of the horse when designing a saddle.  And another thing I noticed was the Billy Cook Saddles sign on the shop wall.  Shows she remembers her roots and her mentor.  I'm not in the market for a saddle, not owning a horse, but if I did, I'd be wanting one of hers.

[chuck123wapati]

4 minutes ago, Tugadude said:

The host reminds me of Val Kilmer in Tombstone.  Definitely some resemblance there.

Another thing my father taught me was the old waste not, want not.  it does come along with some drawbacks, namely a tendency to hoard, but it has saved me time and again.  

As long as I'm sharing stories of my father, another thing I recall is when he told me about how all of the farmers would help each other.  When someone's barn burnt to the ground, they would go through the ashes and collect as many of the nails as they could find.  They'd straighten them and reuse them.  My father showed me how, and I still do it to this day.  

i still have buckets of bolts and nuts my dad saved off of old vehicles he scraped and nails from my grand dad lol. Grand dad died in the 70s dad in 85. Its easy to forget they lived in a time when money wasn't so easy to make.  

[Tugadude]

7 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

i still have buckets of bolts and nuts my dad saved off of old vehicles he scraped and nails from my grand dad lol. Grand dad died in the 70s dad in 85. Its easy to forget they lived in a time when money wasn't so easy to make.  

And even if they had the money, they had to travel hours to the nearest stores.  There was a small general store (actually run by my father's uncle), but they had only basic household consumables.  

One of my father's favorite jokes:

When the toilet paper was getting low in the outhouse, my father called Montgomery Ward to order a case of rolls.  After dad provided the shipping information, the clerk asked my father for the catalog number of the toilet paper he was wanting.  My father replied, "Catalog?  If I had your darned catalog, I wouldn't need the toilet paper."  

And then he'd laugh so hard...

[chuck123wapati]

2 minutes ago, Tugadude said:

Another thing that I thought was really sweet was how Charon talked about the comfort of the horse when designing a saddle.  And another thing I noticed was the Billy Cook Saddles sign on the shop wall.  Shows she remembers her roots and her mentor.  I'm not in the market for a saddle, not owning a horse, but if I did, I'd be wanting one of hers.

oh yea that old gal has it going for sure, she showed so much knowledge in just a few minutes, I'll bet her "toolers" get a work out every day she doesn't seem to be the kind to fool around much , did you notice how fast and easy she ran that swivel knife and the rest of her team as well just getting after it, i could almost smell the leather in that place. The show was on PBS here for a long time it has some really cool episodes i think about four seasons.

 

[chuck123wapati]

2 minutes ago, Tugadude said:

And even if they had the money, they had to travel hours to the nearest stores.  There was a small general store (actually run by my father's uncle), but they had only basic household consumables.  

One of my father's favorite jokes:

When the toilet paper was getting low in the outhouse, my father called Montgomery Ward to order a case of rolls.  After dad provided the shipping information, the clerk asked my father for the catalog number of the toilet paper he was wanting.  My father replied, "Catalog?  If I had your darned catalog, I wouldn't need the toilet paper."  

And then he'd laugh so hard...

LOL that's a great one!!! i remember getting the new "monkey wards' book was like the prelude to Christmas lol.

to tell you the truth i live in a town( my home town) with three hardware stores and the worlds smallest Walmart. Next town is 110 miles away so if it isn't here I'm in the same boat as my dad was 50 years ago, in fact now that i think about it dad had more places to shop lol. One good thing , at least it doesn't take all day shopping for things in ten minutes you can hit all three and now days they all carry the same crap. And that in a nutshell is why some of my leather tools are homemade from old bolts.

[Tugadude]

13 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

LOL that's a great one!!! i remember getting the new "monkey wards' book was like the prelude to Christmas lol.

to tell you the truth i live in a town( my home town) with three hardware stores and the worlds smallest Walmart. Next town is 110 miles away so if it isn't here I'm in the same boat as my dad was 50 years ago, in fact now that i think about it dad had more places to shop lol. One good thing , at least it doesn't take all day shopping for things in ten minutes you can hit all three and now days they all carry the same crap. And that in a nutshell is why some of my leather tools are homemade from old bolts.

When I took my first job as a manufacturer's rep., a regional manager, I had South Dakota as part of my territory.  A guy from Sioux Falls called me one day, asking where my nearest dealer was.  I recall telling him they were nearly 4 hours away and I said it apologetically.  His response?  No problem!  Bear in mind that folks in my hometown are upset when they have to travel 20 minutes more in order to obtain something.  Different perspectives for sure.

44 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

oh yea that old gal has it going for sure, she showed so much knowledge in just a few minutes, I'll bet her "toolers" get a work out every day she doesn't seem to be the kind to fool around much , did you notice how fast and easy she ran that swivel knife and the rest of her team as well just getting after it, i could almost smell the leather in that place. The show was on PBS here for a long time it has some really cool episodes i think about four seasons.

 

No nonsense allowed!  But seriously, it appears they all love what they are doing.  I wish we all were as fortunate.  

[fredk]

2 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

i still have buckets of bolts and nuts my dad saved off of old vehicles he scraped and nails from my grand dad lol. . . .

My father did the same. I still have lots of it. But, he actually crated it all up and shipped it over when we moved here. There was enough to open a small hardware store. It all came in useful when I had my Caddy and Olds. No problems finding bolts to fit. And my son and I bought another mans 'junk'. His father had been the same type of squirrel but had gathered nuts, and bolts and bits from British cars of the 1930s thru the 1950s. 'Junk' to his son but to us a gold mine, to help us keep our 1930 Austin on the road

[fredk]

Slightly OT, but anyone remember this?

A summer-time challenge; make one and see how far you can launch a small pebble

 

[Sheilajeanne]

When I came back to view this thread, I realized what I wrote yesterday never got posted! 

Fred, I was thinking of that other post of mine when I mentioned the catapult on his desk!   I may give it a try....but there's a LOT of other, more important stuff I SHOULD be doing!

There used to be a guy in the Tolkien fandom who had a thing about trebuchets. His screen name was Krispy Kreme, and he used them to propel his favourite donuts! That's where I developed an interest in them. To this day, if you happen to mention the word 'trebuchet' in the Tolkien forum I belong to, you'll get an enthusiastic response! 

 

Anyway, here's yesterday's post:

Good one about the catalogue and TP, Tugadude. 

About the nails - one of my uncles used a woodstove to heat his workshop on the farm, which was in the shed that also housed two of their tractors. One day, the woodstove caused the roof to catch fire, and the whole shed went up in flames.

My cousin was barely able to save the tractors. The one wouldn't start, so he  had to use the other to tow it out. He was shaking like a leaf by the time he got it to safety.

Of all the nails and other bits of hardware that were in the workshop, not a single thing could be salvaged. My uncle showed us what had happened. He picked up a nail, and easily bent it double and broke it with very little pressure. The fire had been so hot, all the metal lost its temper. 

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by Sheilajeanne