Swapping clutch motor to servo motor, please assist

[dikman]

I'm with kgg regarding the needle positioner, I'm not a fan. I primarily sew leather and prefer a slow speed, with a speed reducer I can easily control where the needle stops. I bought a positioner with one of my servos because it seemed like a good idea, but I just didn't like it, plus it won't work with my servos once a speed reducer is installed.

Having said that some people love them. And yes, there's no reason you can't handwheel around corners, tight spots etc.

Regarding the (high) price for this servo, the advertising is promoting it as designed for the larger heavy duty machines, which they obviously think allows a premium price, but the reality is that performance-wise it probably won't be any better than many of the generic servos for your needs. At Australian $576 would I buy one? Nope.

[AlZilla]

47 minutes ago, dikman said:

I'm with kgg regarding the needle positioner, I'm not a fan. I primarily sew leather and prefer a slow speed, with a speed reducer I can easily control where the needle stops.

For what it's worth, I have 2 machines with servos and speed reducers. I can land the needle anywhere I want, in any position. Never tried a positioner but I think I like it to stop where I stop it.

[Ana1234]

Thanks all. Will any reducer go with my machine or does it have to be a specific one?

I will shop around for another servo and also speed reducer, any support on the reducer is welcome! 

 

[dikman]

There are basically two designs of speed reducer available, a box type that bolts in place of the motor and the motor is then bolted to the bottom of the reducer, all you need extra is probably a couple of belts, and the type with a large and small pulley stack that is mounted on a support arm. This is screwed underneath the table  and in line with the pulleys/handwheel. I don't know what is available in Europe. Quite a few on here have made their own using pulleys, axles and pillow block bearings. Lots of info on here if you want to spend the time searching.

If you type in sewing machine speed reducer into google you'll be overwhelmed with information! I also found a stacked pulley type on Aliexpress that was considerably cheaper than what they're selling for here (which wouldn't be hard, Australia is not a cheap place to buy things!!).

I forgot, youtube is a good source of information on how to install/setup these sorts of things too.

Edited July 1, 2023 by dikman

[Ana1234]

Yes I did google it!!!! 

I'll spend some time reading and will probably be back here in a few days 

[Ana1234]

This looks interesting and it would be a lot cheaper - 

 

 

[kgg]

49 minutes ago, Ana1234 said:

This looks interesting and it would be a lot cheaper - 

Yes this is another way to reduce speed. This method does have it limitations as you can only reduce the motor pulley so much and it will be dependent on the minimum bending radius of the pulley you are using. A lot of servo motors come with a 75 mm pulley on them. If I'm not mistake the pulley part of your hand-wheel wheel on your sewing machine is about 85 mm.

With the servo motors speed set to 100 rpm's.

1) The speed of the hand-wheel will be approximately 88 rpm

2) Reduce the motors pulley-wheel down to 45 mm the end result with the speed of the hand-wheel will be approximately 53 rpm

Another alternative is to install a larger hand-wheel say a 150mm.

i) If you increase the existing hand-wheel pulley size from 85 mm to  150 mm without changing the motor pulley (75mm) the speed of the hand-wheel will be reduced to  50 rpm.

ii) If you increase the existing hand-wheel to 150 mm and reduce the motor pulley to 45 mm the speed of the hand-wheel will be reduced to  30 rpm.

kgg

 

 

[AlZilla]

Reading back through here, it seems like you want very precise control of your stitches, as did I for leather work.

I was in your rabbit hole not so long ago. Went to the servo with a small pulley. I wanted more reduction so I added this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/164574739671

I understand you're not in the US, but you should be able to find one like it. This is a 3:1 reducer - a 6" pulley to a 2".  My handwheel pulley is about 3.5" and I counted 26 stitches in 30 seconds. My servo bottoms out at 200 RPMS, even though it's advertised as 0 - 5000.

All this is on a Singer 111w153, so along the lines of what you're looking at.

Has anyone mentioned https://www.blocklayer.com/pulley-belteng ?  Now, there's a rabbit hole.

Honestly, just do both at the same time. You have to remove the machine head and flip the table up twice if you do one and then the other.

[kgg]

2 hours ago, AlZilla said:

I wanted more reduction so I added this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/164574739671

Just add to where you can get a speed reducer try this ad from shipping Aliexpress with free shipping at least in Canada for $132 CAD or $95 USD: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000197134740.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.3.ae3c56a6cHtxUt&algo_pvid=a20d7b50-a60c-4f0a-a64b-b06e04f3efa6&algo_exp_id=a20d7b50-a60c-4f0a-a64b-b06e04f3efa6-1&pdp_npi=3%40dis!CAD!132.5!132.5!!!!!%40212279a216882265354643948d07dc!10000000748215314!sea!CA!4496536814&curPageLogUid=EJDtaB85Xh7b

2 hours ago, AlZilla said:

Has anyone mentioned https://www.blocklayer.com/pulley-belteng ?  Now, there's a rabbit hole.

Yes reduction pulleys can be a real rabbit hole but that site saves a lot of time rather then having to do the math. It is a great site for those who what to build their owe speed reducer and save a few dollars.

2 hours ago, AlZilla said:

My servo bottoms out at 200 RPMS, even though it's advertised as 0 - 5000.

The bottom speed can vary so much depending on the supplier / manufacturer where some can do less bottom end startup while others are even higher. With the electronic controlled servo it has I believe more to do with the number of coils in the motor. For the bottom end startup I would take a 550 watt 12 coil like the Reliable SewQuiet 6000SM 12-Coil Servomotor ( https://reliablecorporation.com/products/sewquiet-6000sm-servomotor ) over a 750 watt 6 coil any day and maybe a 750 watt 9 coil. The Reliable Sewquiet is $199 CAD ( $150 USD ) which is the same as the Sailrite Workhorse at $300 CAD( $225 USD), don't know who copied who first.

kgg

Edited July 1, 2023 by kgg

[dikman]

My turn! Yet another option, Ana, is to swap the handwheel for a large pulley, along with a small pulley on the motor. This works the same as adding a speed reducer but is not for everyone as it will probably mean lengthening the belt slot on the table.

The one kgg linked to is the same type as the one I found on Aliexpress, it pays to search on there as prices can vary quite a bit. Incidentally, I bought my first three servos (Lishui Skyrit) from them, they were cheaper than ebay back then.