Punches and stitching wheels

[yuma]

I have a question that's a bit like hotdogs and buns...why is it that stitching punches are spaced in a metric size and stitching wheels are measured in spaces per inch ??   I cannot find a stitching wheel that matches any stitching punch.....or is it just me ??

 

Roger

[bruce johnson]

Stitching punches are relatively new and mostly imports to the US from countries based on the metric system. Overstitchers, pricking wheels, and pricking irons traditionally were/are made in countries based on inches. BTW, pricking irons and stitching punches are not the same thing. 

[Tugadude]

I asked for this "sticky" thread to be created for folks exactly like you.  

Words matter.  Knowing what to call something is important to having a profitable discussion.  Stitching, pricking, chisel, iron, punch, etc., etc., can mean all sorts of things to different people.  And the water gets muddied when there exist pricking irons that can also penetrate thick leather.  So what do you call the "other" type?  A traditional pricking iron I guess.  Maybe we need to call the newer variety a "hybrid" iron?  Like in golf.  

And on top of all of that is the debate over what tools are "best", as though there is such a thing as best.  Best for whom, is more accurate.  

Anyway, you asked a very intelligent question.  And Bruce, who is an expert, gave a great answer.  Don't stop learning!

[tsunkasapa]

14 hours ago, yuma said:

I have a question that's a bit like hotdogs and buns...why is it that stitching punches are spaced in a metric size and stitching wheels are measured in spaces per inch ??   I cannot find a stitching wheel that matches any stitching punch.....or is it just me ??

 

Roger

Most of us that use stitching wheels don't use punches/chisels. After marking we use an awl.

 

[chuck123wapati]

24 minutes ago, tsunkasapa said:

Most of us that use stitching wheels don't use punches/chisels. After marking we use an awl.

 

not only that but some chisels are measured center to center while others measure the space between teeth.

[SUP]

Whenever this happens, I just google the conversion of mm to inches or vice versa and save the values. Only trouble arises when they just give a number from 1-5 for example. 

Yesterday hubby very sweetly sat and carefully measured all my punches and made a note for me, with appropriate punches on a piece of leather, so I know the size in different ways (number, mm., inches ). That is an option.

[Klara]

Personally, I'd always try the things out on a piece of scrap leather because I neither trust my measuring nor the manufacturer's.

In practice I only have one set of chisels and two sets of French pricking irons, one very fine the other with widely spaced teeth. They look so different that I see at a glance which iron belongs to which set.

I might buy a wheel, though, because I have a feeling that it's much faster for long seams - right or wrong? 

 

 

[tsunkasapa]

5 hours ago, Klara said:

I might buy a wheel, though, because I have a feeling that it's much faster for long seams - right or wrong? 

I use wheels for everything. Short or long, it is definitely faster than going around the project with irons/chisels.

[Tugadude]

If speed is important, a wheel would seem to be the fastest way to mark.  So long as you can keep it straight, and a straight edge would help.  But for many of us, speed isn't the deciding factor, and there are other ways to pick up the pace if it is something you value.  I find the process I use to be more than fast enough and efficient enough for myself.  

[Klara]

25 minutes ago, Tugadude said:

So long as you can keep it straight, and a straight edge would help.

If I remember correctly, Stohlman rolls the wheel in the groove he cuts. Which sounds doable to me. The reason I didn't buy a wheel when I started was that the sales lady warned me that the markings are not slanted, unlike a pricking iron. But now I'm getting curious...

[YinTx]

1 hour ago, Klara said:

If I remember correctly, Stohlman rolls the wheel in the groove he cuts. Which sounds doable to me. The reason I didn't buy a wheel when I started was that the sales lady warned me that the markings are not slanted, unlike a pricking iron. But now I'm getting curious...

My Vergez Blanchard wheels leave slanted marks... a pouncing wheel does not tho.

[Tugadude]

2 hours ago, Klara said:

If I remember correctly, Stohlman rolls the wheel in the groove he cuts. Which sounds doable to me. The reason I didn't buy a wheel when I started was that the sales lady warned me that the markings are not slanted, unlike a pricking iron. But now I'm getting curious...

Yes, but a stitching groove is objectionable to some.  Perhaps many.  It is said by some to be an "American" thing mainly.  And all the arguments ensue about how recessing the thread makes the item more durable.  Then the other side says, maybe, but you are also weakening the leather by removing the upper layer and if you groove too deeply it could be an issue.  And then they point to 100 year old European saddles with thread sitting up proudly with no issues whatsoever, especially for the age.  

My main issue with a stitching groove is it causes my stitching to lose most of its slant, and slanting stitching appeals to me and my idea of aesthetic.  

 

[Tugadude]

43 minutes ago, YinTx said:

My Vergez Blanchard wheels leave slanted marks... a pouncing wheel does not tho.

I know that you know this, but for beginners here.  A pricking wheel has slanted tines whereas the basic overstitching wheel has points.  The pricking wheel is far superior in that it gives you the angle to follow and makes it easier to keep all of the holes at the same angle.  I even found an overgroover with two wheels, to mark parallel lines!  How cool is that?

[chuck123wapati]

11 minutes ago, Tugadude said:

Yes, but a stitching groove is objectionable to some.  Perhaps many.  It is said by some to be an "American" thing mainly.  And all the arguments ensue about how recessing the thread makes the item more durable.  Then the other side says, maybe, but you are also weakening the leather by removing the upper layer and if you groove too deeply it could be an issue.  And then they point to 100 year old European saddles with thread sitting up proudly with no issues whatsoever, especially for the age.  

My main issue with a stitching groove is it causes my stitching to lose most of its slant, and slanting stitching appeals to me and my idea of aesthetic.  

 

I'll add if you pull your stitches tight and pound them they will set down into the leather without a groove and wont wear.

I do any and all of the above whenever I feel its appropriate to what I want my work to look like. I even use different stitching  sometimes lol. Its a big wonderful world folks live to the fullest and don't be boxed in by artificial norms.

But I don't use a stitching wheel with a set of chisels its redundant so there is no need to worry if the numbers match.

[Klara]

Thanks,  I didn't know wheels that leave slanted marks exist.

But considering the price of the Vergez Blanchard tool (€ 50 for the handle, € 30 for one wheel) the lady was right to not even suggest it. Btw, if you are willing to spend € 284, you'll get an edge guide on your wheel...