Mineral oil bad for leather? Or good? Or neutral?

[fredk]

[1985]

I have several leather strops, some different leather than one another, they pick up dirt over the years, every few years I give them a good saddle soap with water, but only on the smooth face not the back.then I dab off access water, I place lint free cotton sheet or like pillow case on top then roller over pressing hard, to take up extra water,

if some get to much of a shine from where the razor just slides I will give a light pommy stone but not on the decor,, before washing process explain above,

Then I add Neatsfoot oil only to the backs of the strops and leave for a few days hanging up. Neatsfoot oil is not made the same way anymore like the old days.

Once I am happy with the moisture content left on the strops , I mix my home made purified fat from (cod line) all the crap gets separated by boiling it a few times, leave to cool then pick up the solid block of fat left on top of water. I then mix it with a touch of organic coco butter and a touch of lanolin, Warm up until tepid and rub mixture into the face on the leather and push a glass jar up and down the strop,

Then leave over night wrapped in cling film, then next day I rub off any thing that has not been absorbed in.leave again a few days hanging in the kitchen, then I rub the palm up and down until palm gets hot , Ill do the palm rub every day on each for a week, and that`s that ,and every time I use them I give them a rub with the palm,

No fungi no bad smells and Iv had some strops few several years,some are vintage I suspect, My belief  is Never leave leather to completely dry out for to many years it will rot,

All my strops hang in the kitchen round the side where moisture and heat gets to them but the cooking stuff don`t reach them so easy , they are also in line with door way so plenty of air, not much oil cooking in my place , Better to add something to leather rather than leave it drying out, in my opinion .

Edited January 17, 2024 by 1985

[SUP]

@1985That's great. You've found a technique that you like, to care for your leather strops. Perhaps you could explain that in a different thread so that others interested in the same could learn from your experience.

On 1/17/2024 at 4:56 PM, 1985 said:

a touch of organic coco butter

Cocoa butter is always organic, isn't it?  It cannot help itself.

On 1/17/2024 at 4:56 PM, 1985 said:

Never leave leather to completely dry out for to many years it will rot,

Absolutely. I completely agree. However, this thread is to learn about the effects of different oils on leathers. One of the things I am watching for, is to see how long the leathers can go before needing to be oiled, and if I delay, how long before damage becomes evident.

Hopefully, we will learn something.

[1985]

I get what your saying ,thinking this will be a very hard experiment to work out, given the type of leathers and treatments they have under gone , time factors. A lot of factors come into play, what animal the skin came from, how was the leather treated in the process with what chemicals, who had the leather after and what products did they use on it,

I don`t know if you are using already used products or stuff straight from manufacturer .

If I personally was to do this experiment, I would get all types of treated leather and some  plain as less messed about with , you can get off cuts from the manufacturers using different types of animals skins as this may play as a factor ,

place them in a drying area until you are satisfied with the dried out effects your wanting , bend the leather to see the flexibility and pull on and twist them , use different oils in different areas on that leather, place back in the drying area or radiator and just keep repeating the process,bending twisting and pulling eventually you will start to see weaknesses in the leather, all your be doing is speeding up the processes to know the outcomes,of the oils but won`t tell you how long they take to naturally dry out, But if one oil still shows flexibility in the leather than another on the same piece then there is some thing to note down,

As you know leather can last for decades If you are to use a product and not try to keep drying it out fast ,you may end up still studying the effects 10 years on,loll if you don`t force the effects

As I mainly work on leather strops for my self vintage ones Iv bought and others iv made from new leather I can tell you iv had many vintage from around the same era going back decades , some have torn like cardboard others seemed  a few years old, my only issue was,  I never new what the previous owners had been using over the years, to cause them to have completely different effects.

May be your best to get hold of the manufacturers who treat the skins as they would have the knowledge also museums they are very knowledgeable on treatments as they have to preserve many items involving leather, they will know what not to use on leather that may speed up the rotting process and how often they need to do it.

And of cause the old boys and girls who have worked mending thousands of specialized leather items like vintage suit cases or brief cases, saddlers who are top of there game working with horse equipment ,, they would have so much knowledge, if none reply here then go visiting the old stores that may be around,find out with the manufactures why they produce certain oil for leather and whats in it ask for dater sheets,

There must also be old books that have explanations on studies to do with effects with oils on leather but remember the oils back then in the early 18th and 19th centuries were produced different from to days, most likely used fats,

But I gather your possibly looking at modern leathers with modern oils to see what will be destructive to leather, i just think to many factors will play its part in this as mentioned above , I also think to much of a treatment of oil can weaken as well , theirs a fine line to caring and destroying,hopefully gathering information from  experts in there field may steer you right,.

This is going to lead you down the rabbit hole with many tunnels , good luck` who knows you may come to some conclusions that you can share with evidence to show.

[SUP]

@1985 Our experiment is for the ordinary person who wonders what to use, not something I plan to publish in a journal. I am  pretty familiar with how to conduct scientific experiments - having a background in research, among other things.

Scientific experiments, if done truly scientifically, select very narrow aims or become too generalized to reach true scientific conclusions. But then, half the time, so called 'scientific conclusions' have such narrow limits that they are not of much use to the layman. The entire process, if I want to go down that path,  will be much more complicated than what you are describing. It also cannot be done by one person or even 2 or 3 people; it will require a team of people over decades. Otherwise it would be pointless. Unless I want  a good part of it to be theory - information from people - which is so much all word-of-mouth - "I heard from this old saddler" and, "My grandfather used this" and so on. Nothing wrong with that, but is that the only thing? That is, in fact, what I am questioning and the reason why we are doing this informal experiment.

For me, the question started with wondering why people said mineral oil, indeed any petroleum products, are bad for leather, while at the same time, in ignorance, praising several products which are full of them. I decided to check if it is true and we just added a few more oils for comparison and as a matter of further curiosity.

@fredk, @chuck123wapati and I are testing several oils on veg-tanned leathers.

One of these days, I plan to expand to other leathers as well.

But this is a fun, informal experiment. 

I, for one, am not interested in setting this up as a formal experiment, contacting tanneries and so on. 

You have evidently given this a lot of thought. If you want to set up a more scientific experiment, go right ahead.

It will be interesting to learn more about it.

 

Edited February 2, 2024 by SUP

[1985]

This is not meant to sound cocky in anyway but no, not much thought given written to what I write down just came naturally the way I think` although it may come across this way to some. I have a some autistic ways to the way I think  written diarrhea is one of them. 

But then if you were going to announce the out come in your findings after carrying on with the tests in this forum ,won`t some people just be questioning your methods of practice to whether it was worth it,after all they only going by your word of mouth,

Would this not be just like every one else giving there experience in the use of products used on leather` whether its true or not what the out come was ,this would surely bring us back to just another persons views as no scientific documentation to show us proof, even though I am not a great believer on scientific proof most of the time.were told what they want us to believe.

I for one applaud any person trying out different methods does not need scientific evidence to get results as science has been proven to be wrong many times in the passed,and fudge the truth, specially when they don`t announce the correct findings as many companies have pay scientist researchers to only show the good stuff on paper with there product and not put down the bad stuff in a product on there findings ,just so companies make silly amount of money selling the product by the time they get found out , so they can`t even be trusted a lot of the time, 

This is why I stated people who have years of experience working with leather every day would know the out come with oil products,but if you choose to not believe in them and do your own research for fun then good on ya why not ,its the only real findings some times,

I used to work in a museum helping the curator, documenting items , I seen stuff they would borrow and lend out many pieces to other museums, and listen to some of the ways and methods items had to be treated ,there were volunteers who worked with us very knowledgeable people and very experienced in there field.who I would trust there knowledge,after asking a thousand and one questions I was satisfied with there answers.

off subject for a minute but has some meaning , One bloke who come to work with us worked in a nuclear plant for 20 years the knowledge he told me on nuclear waste and radiation was fascinating. word of mouth is not always bad to take on board, theirs some truths in it.

The only trouble with products to day , the companies are changing there make up so quick to keep up with the competition by using cheaper man made substances in there products to keep costs down and profits up. so buy the time we get used to something they no longer produce it in the same way, that`s why using a product years ago possibly was really great but as the product changes the older generation may not notice anything much difference, So when some one uses the product for the first time many years down the line and does not recommend it that`s because its changed, this is why there is so much controversy on peoples opinions,some are right some don`t know any different.

Anyway ill be interested in your findings if your decide to place them on this thread be interesting to find out what you discovered with the oils of today

 

 

 

 

[SUP]

Frankly, @1985, I don't give a hoot about people questioning me or saying anything at all about what I am doing. I just answer them as I am answering you and have answered others in the past. At least I am questioning and not just blindly accepting what people have said over 100s of years. The world has come a long way in those 100s of years - I like to be open to new ideas, try them and if they don't work? Fine. If they do, something new learnt. Beyond that, I'm doing this for me and anyone else who is interested.

 

Edited February 2, 2024 by SUP

[dikman]

Sup, by starting this thread (and the ensuing discussion from others) you have made me re-think my attitude towards using mineral oil on leather - I'm referring to the pharmaceutical/medicinal grade/baby oil of course. Up until now I've been fixated on only using natural products on leather but this thread has given me cause to have a re-think.

You've done well.

[fredk]

4- monthly & 5-weekly report since last

#1; Baby Oil;  Flex is good, better than Control #2,  Smell = mildly 'leather',  Other (fungus, deterioration ) = 0

#2;  Cooking Oil (rape seed); Flex is very very good, very much better than Control #2,   Smell = very slightly 'leather',   Other = 0

#3;  Lard (pork fats); Flex is slightly better than Control #2,  Smell = very slightly 'leather' and a hint of oil,  Other = surface feels a bit 'greasy'

#4; NFO Compound; Flex is very good, better than Control #2,  Smell = neutral, Other = 0

#5; Olive Oil;  Flex is better than Control #2,  Smell = very slightly 'leather' with a hint of oil,  Other = 0

#6; 3-in-1 Oil;  Flex is stiffer than Control #2.  Smell = strongly of 3-in-1 oil,  Other = 0

#7; Vaseline;  Flex is stiffer than Control #2,  Smell = faintly of 'leather'   Other; Surface feels very greasy

#8;  Control #1; kept with #1 to #7; Flex has stiffened

#9; Control #2; kept inside away from influences

No change in colour in any of the pieces

Thats all for now

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2024 by fredk

[SUP]

@fredk I've been a bit lax, I'm afraid. You have added a lot of information here.

I need to pull up my socks and get to work! 

Since the cold days are gone, I will check what effect the cold and humidity here have had on the leathers and update in the next few days.

 

@dikman Thank you.