Another (newbie) edge dyeing question

[Colinml]

After quite a bit of reading, I am still confused about the sequence (and products) used to dye the edge of veg. tanned natural leather if I intend to use an oil finish for the face of the project.  I'm not talking about saturating the leather enough to make it floppy, just enough of something like mink oil paste (?) to give the leather a soft glow and some protection, but still look natural.  I would like the project to have a slightly darkened face that comes with applying oil, but the edges to be very dark and glossy.  If I were to dye my edges first, it seems like the dye would bleed onto the face of my project.  If I were to burnish the edge first, using something like tokonole, and then dye, it seems like the product used would resist the dye and would be splotchy or too light overall.  I see there are products that one can paint on, which are like some form of flexible plastic top coating (I'm not being derogatory with "plastic."  I just mean "flexible."), but I don't think that is the effect I'm after and that seems incompatible with the oil.    

What if I want to use a simple oil finish for the face of my projects, but I would like the edges to be very dark, sealed and shiny?  What's the sequence, and what are people using to do this?

[DieselTech]

I think edge paint would be you best. 

Don Gonzales neatsfoot oils, then dyes & edge paints for 1 of his last steps from a lot of videos I've watched. 

I get a high gloss effect on my veg tan leather edges with gum Trag & hand burnishing. 

A lot of times I'll do a brown dyed holster with the edge dyed black & then gum Trag & burnish. Looks like black glass on the edges. 

Edited December 21, 2023 by DieselTech
Misspelling

[TomE]

I use Martin's Edge Solution mixed 50:50 with Fiebings Pro Dye for finishing edges.  The edge remains permeable to dye and other treatments.  I use a small rectangle of Magic Eraser held with a clothespin for dying thick (9-12 oz) edges.  The Magic Eraser holds a lot of dye without dripping although I apply the dye with vertical strokes to avoid pooling or drips on the face of the leather. Once the dye is absorbed I burnish immediately with canvas, or do the first pass with a power burnisher then finish by hand with canvas.

[Colinml]

I think my confusion is that I come to this from woodworking, where one generally avoids mixing solvents (like water based over oil, etc) and certainly never applies dye after applying finish.   I guess "finish" has a different meaning with leather working, as people are sometimes using things I think of as "finish" (topcoat) below dye.

So, to clarify the sequence, TomE, you're beveling and sanding to smoothness, then applying the edge solution mixed with pro dye, and while that could be the end (Edge solution/burnishing acts to seal well enough), you're saying that I could then add more dye if I wanted (and it would accept), and/or I could use oil  or another finish product on top?

And, regarding applying the dye to raw, but sanded edges (and, presumably raw faces of the project), if you can apply carefully, the mixture doesn't simply bleed into the face?

Edited December 22, 2023 by Colinml
spelling

[JLSleather]

I like Fiebing's dyes, including on the edges. 

Edge and burnish with water only.

Then when dry (or almost dry, it's fine) use a dauber to apply dye directly to the edges.  It won't wick - not a problem.

When that's dry, I burnish again with water only (Usually I do this end of the day and just leave it over night, but thats not required).

When I "oil", it's Neatsfoot oil.  A soft cloth (I like a piece of an old t-shirt, ideally) over the mouth of the bottle, tip it do "wet" the cloth (so you can see we're talking about a very small amount).  "Swipe" that across the project (don't "soak" it, just kinda sweep it on).  It will appear a bit "streaked" or blotched, but that will quickly disappear (quickly as in a few hours, not immediately).  this is almost a "feel" so test on a piece of scrap to see what I mean.

I'm sure i have pics somewhere of natural or very light leather with dark edges, to show this.  Checking ...

[JLSleather]

[Colinml]

Beautiful work.

I appreciate the input from everyone.  I think I have enough info to now go do some experiments without trying to reinvent finishing on my own.  The main reason for asking such basic questions is that I have to go buy this stuff to experiment, so it's better to narrow things down at least a bit before the experiments begin.  I think I have a sense of what I want to try now.

Thanks!

[TomE]

3 hours ago, Colinml said:

So, to clarify the sequence, TomE, you're beveling and sanding to smoothness, then applying the edge solution mixed with pro dye, and while that could be the end (Edge solution/burnishing acts to seal well enough), you're saying that I could then add more dye if I wanted (and it would accept), and/or I could use oil  or another finish product on top?

And, regarding applying the dye to raw, but sanded edges (and, presumably raw faces of the project), if you can apply carefully, the mixture doesn't simply bleed into the face?

Yes, bevel and do any sanding then dye/burnish the edge.  If you want the edge darker, you can repeat the process and the dye will continue to soak in (edge is not sealed).  I sometimes apply beeswax to seal the burnished edge, using a heated edge iron to work the wax into the leather.  I don't use acrylic finishes but that would be another way to seal the project.

The dye/edge solution lays down on the edge and doesn't bleed in my experience.  I either use a wool dauber that has been singed to remove loose fibers, or a piece of Magic Eraser to apply the edge treatment.  The smoother the edge, the easier it is to get a neatly dyed edge.   The Martin's edge solution produces a hard, shiny edge on bridle leather with less effort than saddle soap/water or gum tragacanth in my experience.  Bridle leather is stuffed with waxes and fats, and the resulting fluffy fibers can take more effort to  burnish.

Also, check out @hidepounder's tutorial on finishing edges in the "How Do I Do That?" forum.  

[Colinml]

Thanks.  I missed that tutorial in my searching.

[Burkhardt]

5 hours ago, DieselTech said:

Don Gonzales neatsfoot oils

Olive oil is his go to.

[DieselTech]

16 minutes ago, Burkhardt said:

Olive oil is his go to.

Yeah I notice the vids I was watching were quite old & he has changed his process up a bit. Refined I guess I should say. 

His saddle soap/ water burnishing on edges with canvas is pretty amazing too.