DIY leather conditioner

[deboardp]

This topic was started here in 2016 click here . There was an interesting discussion, and one fellow, "unicornleather", who is Austin Black of Wales, made saddles, and he makes his own concoction, which he sells or used to sell. But I can't reach him. Basically he said he uses an ancient saddler's grease made with tallow, beeswax, lard. He recommends using lanolin, but doesn't mention it in his basic formula. Also, he doesn't include the actual recipe. He says use 50% beef fat (tallow), 25%beeswax, and 25% lard (pork fat). In an effort to add lanolin to my recipe, I've jotted down these numbers: 40% tallow, 20% beeswax, 20% lard, 20% anhydrous (no water) lanolin. Lanolin is made by sheep sebaceous glands to lubricate and protect its wool. It's a waxy, white substance, the same stuff as the white part of a white head on human skin. I've considered maybe adding something else, for aroma, but Austin "Oz" said that the final treatment of leather, after this conditioner has spent three days moving along the leather fibres, and is apparently "dry", is to rub a small amount of cod liver oil onto both sides of the leather. He said this restores the leather smell of the leather.  I'll have to try it.  My leather already smells like leather, but after rubbing all that grease into both sides of it, who knows WHAT it will smell like! He wrote a similar article in another journal in 2012, but I didn't save the links to either article. However, I saved his article on the computer. I'll attach it, if allowed. He posted and was a member known as unicornleather.

This is his website. I couldn't get his messaging to work for me. https://www.unicornleather.co.uk/  You can read his story if you click on "about me", at the top in the blue banner.

I ordered all my ingredients today, online, except for the cod liver oil. 

Patrick

leather conditioner.odt

Edited December 28, 2023 by deboardp
make it more accurate, add links

[ScottWolf]

I posted an actual leather conditioner recipe in the forum for conditioners. It has since been pinned to the top and it covers just about all the ingredients one can use in a conditioner and suggested ratios for the various ingredients along with pictures of finished products. It should help you in adjusting your ingredients so that you get the desired end product.

Link:

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by ScottWolf

[deboardp]

Just now, ScottWolf said:

I posted an actual leather conditioner recipe in the forum for conditioners. It has since been pinned to the top and it covers just about all the ingredients one can use in a conditioner and suggested ratios for the various ingredients along with pictures of finished products. It should help you in adjusting your ingredients so that you get the desired end product.

I just edited my post at the top, you might want to look at it.  Do you have a link to your recipe?

[ScottWolf]

15 hours ago, deboardp said:

I just edited my post at the top, you might want to look at it.  Do you have a link to your recipe?

The link is in my previous post, at the bottom of the post.You should see a picture, click on it.

[deboardp]

15 hours ago, ScottWolf said:

I posted an actual leather conditioner recipe in the forum for conditioners. It has since been pinned to the top and it covers just about all the ingredients one can use in a conditioner and suggested ratios for the various ingredients along with pictures of finished products. It should help you in adjusting your ingredients so that you get the desired end product.

Link:

 

That's an interesting topic thread. Why are you averse to using tallow and lard? Those two ingredients make up 3/4 of the recipe of the English Saddlers conditioner. Austin, who apparently goes by"Oz", recommends to not use oil at all, until after the leather has been stuffed with fats and waxes, and he points out that the leather doesn't absorb this oil since it is already stuffed. I know almond oil is heady stuff for the olfactory sense, but the Saddlers of old didn't use oil. They used fats and waxes, which are removed in vegetable tanning leather. They're simply replacing that stuff with their conditioner. So I think I'll try the old way first, see how it works. Leather sandals are similar to tack and saddles in that there are straps and body weight on the topsole. I'll try what has worked for centuries. I bought 50 tins to send along with each pair of sandals I make, no charge to customers. 

Edited December 28, 2023 by deboardp

[deboardp]

3 minutes ago, ScottWolf said:

The link is in my previous post, at the bottom of the post.You should see a picture, click on it.

It did finally show up last night. 

[chuck123wapati]

3 minutes ago, deboardp said:

That's an interesting topic thread. Why are you averse to using tallow and lard? Those two ingredients make up 3/4 of the recipe of the English Saddlers conditioner. Austin, who apparently goes by"Oz", recommends to not use oil at all, until after the leather has been stuffed with fats and waxes, and he points out that the leather doesn't absorb this oil since it is already stuffed. I know almond oil is heady stuff for the olfactory sense, but the Saddlers of old didn't use oil. They used fats and waxes, which are removed in vegetable tanning leather. They're simply relaxing that stuff with their conditioner. So I think I'll try the old way first, see how it works. Leather sandals are similar to tack and saddles in that there are straps and body weight on the topsole. I'll try what has worked for centuries. I bought 50 tins to send along with each pair of sandals I make, no charge to customers. 

i have a recipe similar in an old book if you need it. In fact it has a couple recipes i believe. with lanolin and cod oil used. Most younger folks don't think that leather was ever conditioned so they reinvent what was already there. mostly with the new age buzz words added. History has taken some bad knocks in the education field lately. 

[deboardp]

Just now, chuck123wapati said:

i have a recipe similar in an old book if you need it. In fact it has a couple recipes i believe. with lanolin and cod oil used. Most younger folks don't think that leather was ever conditioned so they reinvent what was already there. mostly with the new age buzz words added. History has taken some bad knocks in the education field lately. 

I would like to look at it. 

I was thinking earlier this morning that if I didn't like the conditioner I'm about to make, I'll have all this organic pork lard in a jar, and I could eat it out of the jar with a spoon, like a bacon smoothie. Well, maybe not...

[deboardp]

1 hour ago, chuck123wapati said:

i have a recipe similar in an old book if you need it. In fact it has a couple recipes i believe. with lanolin and cod oil used. Most younger folks don't think that leather was ever conditioned so they reinvent what was already there. mostly with the new age buzz words added. History has taken some bad knocks in the education field lately. 

I might like to buy the book online if it's in print and if it's relevant to making sandals (and later, belts and bags).

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, deboardp said:

I would like to look at it. 

I was thinking earlier this morning that if I didn't like the conditioner I'm about to make, I'll have all this organic pork lard in a jar, and I could eat it out of the jar with a spoon, like a bacon smoothie. Well, maybe not...

i just made soap out of 6lbs of Elk tallow its something to do with unneeded fats and oils

[ScottWolf]

1 hour ago, deboardp said:

That's an interesting topic thread. Why are you averse to using tallow and lard?

Read the entire thread, you will see that I address the use of Tallow and other ingredients that I avoided in my first post. At this point, I can say I've used every ingredient thats been documented and used in making leather conditioners thats still available. The only only ones I can say I don't use or recommend using, after my extensive testing of them, is Vegetable oil and Lard (pig). Tallow (beef) works fabulously when you use the Wagu Beef Tallow from South Chicago packing that I mention in my recipe thread. My experience with both vegetable oil and lard(pig) was underwhelming (it under performed) and I actually did have a concern with both turning, as they began to smell strongly after awhile.  

[deboardp]

1 minute ago, ScottWolf said:

Read the entire thread, you will see that I address the use of Tallow and other ingredients that I avoided in my first post. At this point, I can say I've used every ingredient thats been documented and used in making leather conditioners thats still available. The only only ones I can say I don't use or recommend using, after my extensive testing of them, is Vegetable oil and Lard (pig). Tallow (beef) works fabulously when you use the Wagu Beef Tallow from South Chicago packing that I mention in my recipe thread. My experience with both vegetable oil and lard(pig) was underwhelming (it under performed) and I actually did have a concern with both turning, as they began to smell strongly after awhile.  

I'll read it again.

[chuck123wapati]

22 minutes ago, deboardp said:

I might like to buy the book online if it's in print and if it's relevant to making sandals (and later, belts and bags).

sorry its not about sandals lol. its a cool book even has recipes for fireworks lol. These are all pretty straight forward and of use in all leather products. What you need to remember is that back in the day most leather goods were conditioned to withstand the weather and they didn't condition different types of leather goods with products specific to just one thing. Boot dressing for example was used on belts, gloves satchels and such.

[deboardp]

10 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

sorry its not about sandals lol. its a cool book even has recipes for fireworks lol. These are all pretty straight forward and of use in all leather products. What you need to remember is that back in the day most leather goods were conditioned to withstand the weather and they didn't condition different types of leather goods with products specific to just one thing. Boot dressing for example was used on belts, gloves satchels and such.

What the book calls wool grease is what we call lanolin. 

[chuck123wapati]

18 minutes ago, deboardp said:

What the book calls wool grease is what we call lanolin. 

yes that is correct.

[ScottWolf]

Petrolatum IS mineral oil and those recipes are specifically for waterproofing, not conditioning leather.

[dikman]

Using tallow I can understand as it's fat that has been rendered and is pretty stable (doesn't go rancid). I don't think I'll be trying pork fat, however, I've seen a few "recipes" for various treatments and none have mentioned using pork fat. Same with lard (lard is for cooking with as far as I'm concerned).

[deboardp]

7 hours ago, ScottWolf said:

Petrolatum IS mineral oil and those recipes are specifically for waterproofing, not conditioning leather.

Which recipes are for waterproofing, Scott?

[ScottWolf]

32 minutes ago, deboardp said:

Which recipes are for waterproofing, Scott?

The ones in the picture(s) posted by Chuck.

[deboardp]

I'm impetuous. I realized this evening that Eastern Orthodox monks don't eat meat, and my target demograph is monks first and Orthodox lay people second, so why am i buying lard and tallow to condition their footwear??? Sheesh. I'm an idiot, too. 

So, regroup. I need to reread the discussion about recipes for leather conditioner that Scott Wolf mentions above in this thread, and read the thread on this topic from September. How does one mark that? Could i have used a browser bookmark? I had just gotten to the part where someone posted links to discussions from 1940 and from 100 years ago about fats and oils to condition leather. I did read in one of those that wool wax and wool grease are ingredients, and I heard of some kind of fat or wax made from nuts. I lost many memory functions during my stroke of 2015. Be grateful if you remember things. I guess I'll be wanting a leather conditioner that 1), doesn't harm leather in any way, but rather makes it soft for contact with tender feet, and 2), doesn't stain the socks that people can where with these sandals, and 3) doesn't contain fats from animal food products. 

Off the cuff, there's anhydrous lanolin and there's beeswax. I'll read more and see if my aversion to using NFO and other oils is warranted and supported by actual evidence, and to find evidence of what else could join my recipe. 

Edited December 29, 2023 by deboardp
Spelling

[chuck123wapati]

On 12/28/2023 at 12:39 PM, ScottWolf said:

Petrolatum IS mineral oil and those recipes are specifically for waterproofing, not conditioning leather.

pretty much the same thing friend. if you do one you don't need the other. unless of course you only condition your snow boots. The basics of "liquoring", or "conditioning"  leather is pretty straight forward.

15 hours ago, deboardp said:

I'm impetuous. I realized this evening that Eastern Orthodox monks don't eat meat, and my target demograph is monks first and Orthodox lay people second, so why am i buying lard and tallow to condition their footwear??? Sheesh. I'm an idiot, too. 

So, regroup. I need to reread the discussion about recipes for leather conditioner that Scott Wolf mentions above in this thread, and read the thread on this topic from September. How does one mark that? Could i have used a browser bookmark? I had just gotten to the part where someone posted links to discussions from 1940 and from 100 years ago about fats and oils to condition leather. I did read in one of those that wool wax and wool grease are ingredients, and I heard of some kind of fat or wax made from nuts. I lost many memory functions during my stroke of 2015. Be grateful if you remember things. I guess I'll be wanting a leather conditioner that 1), doesn't harm leather in any way, but rather makes it soft for contact with tender feet, and 2), doesn't stain the socks that people can where with these sandals, and 3) doesn't contain fats from animal food products. 

Off the cuff, there's anhydrous lanolin and there's beeswax. I'll read more and see if my aversion to using NFO and other oils is warranted and supported by actual evidence, and to find evidence of what else could join my recipe. 

you might try the #2 petrolatum and beeswax formula in the book. Always test!!!!! 

[deboardp]

40 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

pretty much the same thing friend. if you do one you don't need the other. unless of course you only condition your snow boots. The basics of "liquoring", or "conditioning"  leather is pretty straight forward.

you might try the #2 petrolatum and beeswax formula in the book. Always test!!!!! 

you say the basics of conditioning are straight forward. Please, humor me, and write them down for me. I'm just not a smart as I used to be, and I'm not so sure about how smart I was then!

I did some reality checking, asked my priest if I could use tallow (Scott said he had used lard and it started to stink, so I won't use lard), and the priest said use whatever is best. I should have asked him what THAT might be, haha. 

So I'm back to using Oz's version of saddler's grease: 50% tallow, 25% beeswax, 25% anhydrous lanolin (instead of lard). I might toss in a little macadamia nut oil so the compound is like butter rather than mortar mix. After wetting the leather with warm water I'll work that stuff into both sides of the straps with my hands, plus the topsole (top side only, by this time it will have been glued and stitched). After it all dries in my shop I'll do the cod liver oil treatment. How exciting!  

Tell me, Chuck, after that, are the sandals conditioned, waterproofed, or both? Haha. I just want to know what I'm doing. 

Edited December 29, 2023 by deboardp

[SUP]

@deboardp lanolin, beeswax and mineral oil provides everything - softening, water resistance and a warm shine with further protection. I don't use any other animal fat at home except lanolin, the fragrance of which I love, ergo, it ends up on my leathers. Mineral oils are obtained during the production of 'fossil fuels'; fossils are purely from organic material, so mineral oil is organic in origin.. Besides  mineral oil has at least one carbon atom with sp3 hybridization which is the most basic requirement for any chemical to be labelled as 'organic'. 

Cod liver oil. I really want to use that, since it is said to give that characteristic fragrance of leather but how long does it take for the cod liver oil smell to dissipate? Could you let me know please?

@chuck123wapati after you mentioned that book in a different thread, I got one for myself. It is so very interesting, the things people used to make. I can't wait to try some of those recipes, although I wonder if I can get some  of those ingredients these days.  Just love that book. Thank you for mentioning it.

See, I wonder how leather can get hydrated with pure waxes and oils. Hydration requires water. We clean and dry leather completely before applying the conditioners, which are usually all fats and preservatives, so how can it get hydrated?

About conditioning leather, I wonder whether the leather fibers do actually change in any way when a person rubs in waxes and oils into it. How hot can it really get, after all? Certainly not as hot as being out in the summer sun in Nevada, for example. So if the latter does not change the chemical structure, can rubbing in oils change it? I wonder if the conditioners rubbed in just spread through the leather, in between the fibers and cause good lubrication, and as the surface fibers get lubricated, the rubbing allows the oils and waxes to penetrate further and further into the leather? Waxes, being solid  probably stay in place longer than plain oils which might leak out or get wiped off...I wonder if that is what happens.

I know of a couple of conditioners which do not have much fats in them - no color change which,  I have heard, always happens with fats applied to leathers. These conditioners do not condition much at all and soon dry out. I, in fact, use these conditioners only when I specifically do not want the color to change. The items need conditioning so frequently that I do not use them any more.

 

 

[deboardp]

15 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

pretty much the same thing friend. if you do one you don't need the other. unless of course you only condition your snow boots. The basics of "liquoring", or "conditioning"  leather is pretty straight forward.

you might try the #2 petrolatum and beeswax formula in the book. Always test!!!!! 

I don't want to use petrolatum. If rather use something that comes from things that were more recently alive. Don't ask me why, because i don't actually know. 

[SUP]

1 hour ago, deboardp said:

I don't want to use petrolatum. If rather use something that comes from things that were more recently alive. Don't ask me why, because i don't actually know.

Precisely why I like to use mineral oil. Oils from recently deceased animals and vegetation are meant for the life of that living object, which is a limited number of years. Mineral oil is a different matter. I want my leathers to last a long time, ergo use a product that has that life as well. 

Different ways of thinking, I guess.