Consew 230R-1 setting it up for leather

[lilbax]

Hi everyone,

I just purchased a Consew 230R-1. I’m attempting to set it up for doing some leather projects. I’ve been hand sewing everything and wanted to try a machine. (Last time I used a sew machine was home economics in 1999.) I know it’s not the perfect machine for what I’m doing and I should have bought a much more expensive set up but I’ve found lots of positive feedback on this machine and it was in my price range. I have a few questions though.

 

What size needle should I use? I will be trying to go through 2-4mm of leather if that’s possible. 
 

What thread size can is best for this and will fit through the machine and the tensioners? 
 

Do I use the same size and color in the bobbin? 
 

Last question is there a specific type of foot I should use to help with this that won’t mark up the leather? Like a roller foot or something?

Some things I like about this machine is that it had reverse, I can change my stitch size and it has the walking foot. Some of the pictures are what I’ve sewn by hand and other projects I want to use the machine for.

Thanks for your kindness. 

[nylonRigging]

It sounding like you have zero, or very little knowledge of sew machines in your Post. So It a 1st time, low budget machine, if just starting out learning .
learn some machine stitching basics, needles, thread, and machine working mechanics with using it...--->  Save your money and work on getting a Consew 206, or Juki 1541 for future expansion of your skills .

That is a pretty common Mitsubishi cast head, used on many brands, and is a Drop-Feed ( bottom feed ) . it a light-Med. duty sew machine.
OK.. It will 'can' sew leather . at a minimum expectation it can do some decent stitching on thinner softer leathers. 'if' you change a few things with it.  But you need to put some time 'sitting behind' getting to know the machine. Also the machine ( it is , What it is ) you got to recognize it's limitations.

It takes easy to find selection of Feet, Dogs, needle plates, Needles, and also will take easy to find presser roller-wheel. The Roller Foot, is an easy swap/change-out, and it also can do some decent stitching . You can tune it for 135x5 and 135x 16/17 size needle. It will use #69/text 70 thread . it has small bobbins . It does have Reverse, but you will 'try and try' to adjust, to get it to sew same SPI in reverse, but it Won't ever never be satisfied with stitch quality in reverse .

It is set-up in your picture for Fabric Stitching . For sewing Leather. You need to get needle control, slow it down, get a quality servo. or a cheep servo drive with using a reduction pulley . You going to have to change out the Dog and needle-plate, to a Med. or Heavy tooth, and get rid of the fine fabric toothed Dog . put in a little heavier tension coil spring on top thread. experiment with the presser-foot tension. use a smooth/slick chrome plated press foot .
.

[Northmount]

15 hours ago, lilbax said:

Some things I like about this machine is that it had reverse, I can change my stitch size and it has the walking foot. Some of the pictures are what I’ve sewn by hand and other projects I want to use the machine for.

Thanks for your kindness. 

That's not a walking foot.  There would be 2 presser feet, an inside, and an outside foot, each with there own presser foot bar.

[lilbax]

On 1/16/2024 at 7:45 PM, nylonRigging said:

It sounding like you have zero, or very little knowledge of sew machines in your Post. So It a 1st time, low budget machine, if just starting out learning .
learn some machine stitching basics, needles, thread, and machine working mechanics with using it...--->  Save your money and work on getting a Consew 206, or Juki 1541 for future expansion of your skills .

That is a pretty common Mitsubishi cast head, used on many brands, and is a Drop-Feed ( bottom feed ) . it a light-Med. duty sew machine.
OK.. It will 'can' sew leather . at a minimum expectation it can do some decent stitching on thinner softer leathers. 'if' you change a few things with it.  But you need to put some time 'sitting behind' getting to know the machine. Also the machine ( it is , What it is ) you got to recognize it's limitations.

It takes easy to find selection of Feet, Dogs, needle plates, Needles, and also will take easy to find presser roller-wheel. The Roller Foot, is an easy swap/change-out, and it also can do some decent stitching . You can tune it for 135x5 and 135x 16/17 size needle. It will use #69/text 70 thread . it has small bobbins . It does have Reverse, but you will 'try and try' to adjust, to get it to sew same SPI in reverse, but it Won't ever never be satisfied with stitch quality in reverse .

It is set-up in your picture for Fabric Stitching . For sewing Leather. You need to get needle control, slow it down, get a quality servo. or a cheep servo drive with using a reduction pulley . You going to have to change out the Dog and needle-plate, to a Med. or Heavy tooth, and get rid of the fine fabric toothed Dog . put in a little heavier tension coil spring on top thread. experiment with the presser-foot tension. use a smooth/slick chrome plated press foot .
.

Thanks for sharing. So the when you say I can tune it to those size needles is that just buying them and they will swap out or are there other adjustments that need to made for that different needle to have correct timing etc?

 

On my immediate grab list will be:

Thread 69 text/thread

Needles 135x5 or 135x 16/17 size  

Heavy Tooth dog and needle plate  

Roller presser foot

Play with the tension

————

I’ll see how that goes and get a servo controller after if I don’t have enough control. Does this sound like a good start and I can do some leather projects on it?  

 

Edited January 19 by lilbax

[lilbax]

On 1/17/2024 at 8:30 AM, Northmount said:

That's not a walking foot.  There would be 2 presser feet, an inside, and an outside foot, each with there own presser foot bar.

Yeah…. Being super new I looked around forever and this older tailor told me this was a walking foot 2x and would be great for leather projects. I saw it and it didnt have those extra feet or the bar in the back but he swore it was one. I believed him and drove it from San Diego to Utah. So here is where I’m at. See what I can do with it or sell it immediately and save up another $500-$1000. Something good will happen. I’m sure that man didn’t mean to lie. There was a bit of a language barrier and my knowledge was minuscule. 

[Northmount]

5 hours ago, lilbax said:

this older tailor told me this was a walking foot

Tailor should have been a give away that is was for tailor work, not for leather work.  Even an industrial tailoring machine is not adequate for any leather work beyond a couple layers of garment leather.  Don't ask me how I know!

[Wizcrafts]

My very first industrial sewing machine was a Singer 96k40 tailoring machine that was sold to me by a dealer who swore it could sew leather. I was making a vest from a Tandy pattern, with a semi-dense heavy garment leather from Tandy. It could only sew flat seams, broke needles when I came to doubled seams. I ended up buying another head, a Singer 31-?? with a spring loaded walking foot, that dropped into the same table. That machine did sew the vest and climbed over the thick seams.

I have since learned that the best mechanism for sewing leather is a compound feed walking foot. With this system, the feed dog on the bottom moves in sync with the needle and the inside alternating "vibrating" foot. The outer foot is a presser foot that moves up and down to hold or release the leather. These machines have not one, or two, but three bars coming down: a needle bar, a vibrating presser bar, and a presser foot bar.

[lilbax]

On 1/19/2024 at 6:01 AM, Northmount said:

Tailor should have been a give away that is was for tailor work, not for leather work.  Even an industrial tailoring machine is not adequate for any leather work beyond a couple layers of garment leather.  Don't ask me how I know!

You may have felt the pain I did huh? I feel so dumb but hopefully I will learn from this mistake. 

[lilbax]

On 1/19/2024 at 10:10 AM, Wizcrafts said:

My very first industrial sewing machine was a Singer 96k40 tailoring machine that was sold to me by a dealer who swore it could sew leather. I was making a vest from a Tandy pattern, with a semi-dense heavy garment leather from Tandy. It could only sew flat seams, broke needles when I came to doubled seams. I ended up buying another head, a Singer 31-?? with a spring loaded walking foot, that dropped into the same table. That machine did sew the vest and climbed over the thick seams.

I have since learned that the best mechanism for sewing leather is a compound feed walking foot. With this system, the feed dog on the bottom moves in sync with the needle and the inside alternating "vibrating" foot. The outer foot is a presser foot that moves up and down to hold or release the leather. These machines have not one, or two, but three bars coming down: a needle bar, a vibrating presser bar, and a presser foot bar.

That’s my next move. I may so some other things on this for now to refresh my high school memory and then move to a walking foot. Are there walking foot machines that won’t handle leather well or are they generally made for thick dense material?

[327fed]

Something that may help you out is many industrial sewing machines have a compatible table and motor. You probably can get just another sewing machine (some call it a head)  and replace yours on the table and motor you already have. All you do is lift it up, remove the belt, and it pulls off. That could save on both price and shipping for your replacement machine. You may need a speed reducer if it does not have a servo motor for speed control, or replace the motor with a servo motor. 

[Northmount]

34 minutes ago, lilbax said:

Are there walking foot machines that won’t handle leather well or are they generally made for thick dense material?

Lots of options.  Upholstery type walking foot for leather up to 3/8" and thread sizes 46 to 207, all the way up to 441 clones that will do 7/8" and thread sizes 69 to 346.

See this link for Cowboy machines.

[maggielj]

4 hours ago, lilbax said:

You may have felt the pain I did huh? I feel so dumb but hopefully I will learn from this mistake. 

We have all been there, it happens. Dont be so hard on yourself

[327fed]

I have my first machine sitting in the back of my shop. It is the same model Lucy Arnaz used in the I Love Lucy episode where she sewed her sleeve into the dress she was making. Bought it for leather. Will sew one thickness, not 2. 

[nylonRigging]

On 1/18/2024 at 11:18 PM, lilbax said:

Thanks for sharing. So the when you say I can tune it to those size needles is that just buying them and they will swap out or are there other adjustments that need to made for that different needle to have correct timing etc?

 

On my immediate grab list will be:

Thread 69 text/thread

Needles 135x5 or 135x 16/17 size  

Heavy Tooth dog and needle plate  

Roller presser foot

Play with the tension

————

I’ll see how that goes and get a servo controller after if I don’t have enough control. Does this sound like a good start and I can do some leather projects on it?  

 

Your machine should be a 135x5 needle right now ? , Your machine is pretty common. just figure out what DB Model MITSUBISHI, that is looks like and go from there for info also . 
Needles like 135x5 is perfectly fine. Your machine isn't doing any bigger than #69 thread anyway. 135x17 offers a little bit bigger needle thread hole for larger thread, but you wont need it.

It a good learning experience for you and changing out a few things on this bottom-feed machine, and will be good basic knowledge, and be pretty helpful when you moving-up to a better machine latter on. 'Basic stuff ' like this translates over down the line.
You changing out Needles , Dogs, needle-plate, Feet ...etc. that is real economical ' for your machine . Just go on Ebay for presser feet, or a roller foot . If just using standard presser foot,  just buy both a Large and a Medium Dog and needle-plates to play around and see which feeds best to what you doing . You might not even need to go to the largest tooth Dog .
--------
Your machine will stitch thinner leather . It is just that a unison-feed, or a drop-feed walk has far better feed and needle control.

I threw a couple Pics. in to show you. I cut a piece of old scrap leather/deer . It is average @ about 1.33 mm thick. it still fairly supple but Old.
I doubled 2x thick, and it was about 2.70 mm thick . .  then tripled 3x thick to about 4.50 mm thick .. then 4x thick to 5.04+ on the Caliper .
I did Little effort on my end, I just used what #69 that was already strung-up on the machine and the 20# needle hole round point fabric needle . It just sewed it all on the 1st attempt, no practice scraps before I took the Pics.
I keep an old DB-170 Mitsu. and I worked it over to Feed heavier cordura/webbing with a better servo drive,and 135x17 needle, higher tension . 69/T-70 is the limit on thread size.

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[Wizcrafts]

18 hours ago, lilbax said:

Are there walking foot machines that won’t handle leather well or are they generally made for thick dense material?

In fact, there are! Some manufacturers offer/offered walking foot machines with dual feed, which is really geared towards the upholstery and banner/tarp business. Other walking foot machines are designed to sew denim garments. Yet others are intended for use sewing Velcro and heavy webbing.

A dual feed machine has a moving feed dog pushing on the bottom, while a moving outside foot claws it in sync on the top. I have had such machines and they can be absolutely brutal on veg-tan, or retan leather. These machines tend to leave deep tooth marks on both sides. Thus, if you intend to sew veg-tan leather projects, stay away from dual feed machines that claw the work through on the top.

Please note that some companies, or aftermarket sellers offer knurled teeth feet that supposedly are less damaging to veg-tan leather on their dual top/bottom feed machines. Sailrite comes to mind with their portable dual feed machines that re  designed to sew sailcloth, Bimini covers, awnings, and boat seat covers.

Some reasons why a walking foot machine may not do a good job sewing leather are it may have a light duty (and light weight) hook, light duty springs, or be designed with an automatic oiling system (and internal pump) that needs to spin at 20 to 60 stitches per second. Some dual feed machines only have 1/4 inch clearance under the feet while in action.

This next machine brings me full circle to the second head I bought, back in 1985, that I used to sew my leather vest. I was a Singer class 15-something that had a spring loaded follow foot. The work was clawed along by the feed dog on the bottom, while the presser foot followed it backwards on top. The inside "vibrating" foot went up and down with the needle. When that foot was down hard, the leather was help in place. As that foot lifted with the ascending needle, the feed dog and top spring loaded foot moved the leather. It turned out to be a light duty machine that couldn't handle thick thread, or two layers of 8 ounce holster leather.

Over many decades, Adler, Juki, Mitsubishi, Pfaff and Singer produced some awesome walking foot designs. For instance, I used to have a Singer 42-5 flat bed follow foot machine that sewed up to a little under 3/8 inch of veg-tan leather, using #277 bonded nylon thread. The head weighed over 100 pounds! The bobbins were cylindrical and held lots of thick thread. All of the springs were super heavy duty. I sewed things like heavy work aprons and tool belts, bikers' and Farriers chaps and stirrup straps on it. Somebody saw me using it and made me an offer I couldn't refuse. Now, it's theirs.

[dikman]

Lilbax, have you read the sticky at the top about the type of machine(s) needed to sew leather? That is required reading for anyone looking for a machine. There's a lot of info to absorb but it should help with understanding the issues with sewing leather.

[Silkcut]

The 230 is a nice machine, and given what you state you want to do with it, should be capable of handling it. 2-4mm of leather isn't going to give it trouble. I have a Consew 230, with reverse. I don't know if mine is exactly the same as yours though. No where on mine is an "R1" designation?? These are high speed garment machines and can really spit some material out the backside. They're also good with lighter canvas and polypropolene covers, like on temporary buildings. You might get the idea to try and use a  walking foot attachment with your 230. I have done it, but it's not that great. It "worked" on lighter material. I don't know that it will work leather.

 Mine is running a size 19 needle with V92 thread, and that's a little heavy. Now that I have an Adler 167 GK373,  I'll set up my Consew for lighter thread, and needle. I like the advice to use V69 thread, with a size 16, or 17. Mine can be problematic at times with heavier thread. You'll also get more thread on the bobbin.

You really want that servo motor. I guarantee that it will not be wasted money. It can be adapted to just about any machine of this type and class, so if you do get a true walking foot machine down the line, you just swap it over. The clutch you currently have on your machine is difficult to control and feather for low speed operation, and if your foot moves just a few millimeters, that machine will be off to the races. I believe that the specs for the machines are upward of 3500 stiches per minute. Mine does not currently have a servo motor, but it will be getting one soon. There could be an issue with servo motors installed on this machine. The oil pump needs rpm's to get the oil pumping to the top of the machines. The bottom of the machine has a system of wicks that keep parts lubricated, but the top needs that pumped oil. I think with mine I'll just have to periodically run it at higher RPM's to get the oil pumping to the top.

Edited January 22 by Silkcut

[lilbax]

On 1/22/2024 at 6:53 AM, Silkcut said:

The 230 is a nice machine, and given what you state you want to do with it, should be capable of handling it. 2-4mm of leather isn't going to give it trouble. I have a Consew 230, with reverse. I don't know if mine is exactly the same as yours though. No where on mine is an "R1" designation?? These are high speed garment machines and can really spit some material out the backside. They're also good with lighter canvas and polypropolene covers, like on temporary buildings. You might get the idea to try and use a  walking foot attachment with your 230. I have done it, but it's not that great. It "worked" on lighter material. I don't know that it will work leather.

 Mine is running a size 19 needle with V92 thread, and that's a little heavy. Now that I have an Adler 167 GK373,  I'll set up my Consew for lighter thread, and needle. I like the advice to use V69 thread, with a size 16, or 17. Mine can be problematic at times with heavier thread. You'll also get more thread on the bobbin.

You really want that servo motor. I guarantee that it will not be wasted money. It can be adapted to just about any machine of this type and class, so if you do get a true walking foot machine down the line, you just swap it over. The clutch you currently have on your machine is difficult to control and feather for low speed operation, and if your foot moves just a few millimeters, that machine will be off to the races. I believe that the specs for the machines are upward of 3500 stiches per minute. Mine does not currently have a servo motor, but it will be getting one soon. There could be an issue with servo motors installed on this machine. The oil pump needs rpm's to get the oil pumping to the top of the machines. The bottom of the machine has a system of wicks that keep parts lubricated, but the top needs that pumped oil. I think with mine I'll just have to periodically run it at higher RPM's to get the oil pumping to the top.

That’s great advice. I’m a bit nervous on getting a servo but depending on where you press on the foot plate the machine can go wild. Showing it down will help greatly. I ran some 2mm vegetan and it ran well. The thread is the only thing I’d like to eee how that helps. Thank you for all the advice. 

[dikman]

Nothing to be nervous about, just get it, you won't regret it. Not difficult to fit, the hardest part is usually sorting out the belt length needed, if you're lucky the existing belt might still fit.

[lilbax]

18 hours ago, lilbax said:

That’s great advice. I’m a bit nervous on getting a servo but depending on where you press on the foot plate the machine can go wild. Showing it down will help greatly. I ran some 2mm vegetan and it ran well. The thread is the only thing I’d like to eee how that helps. Thank you for all the advice. 

 

6 hours ago, dikman said:

Nothing to be nervous about, just get it, you won't regret it. Not difficult to fit, the hardest part is usually sorting out the belt length needed, if you're lucky the existing belt might still fit.

Thank you. I’m pretty excited to try this out. The way it was set up with basic fabric thread it ran through 2.3mm leather without a problem. Control is the issue so that controller will be necessary. 
 

Previous advice was to get size v69 thread with a size 16 or 17. (What does the 16/17 refer to?) What size of needle do I need? 
 

If you can explain the differences in sizes of needles or threads like I’m in 3rd grade that would be super helpful. I keep googling things and I’m not sure I understand sizing on needles or threads. Also I’m not sure what size my current needle is  

Here’s some other recommendations I’ve been given. What’s your thoughts?
 

On my immediate grab list will be:

Thread 69 text/thread

Needles 135x5 or 135x 16/17 size  

Heavy Tooth dog and needle plate  

Roller presser foot

Edited January 29 by lilbax
Clarification

[Wizcrafts]

10 minutes ago, lilbax said:

Previous advice was to get size v69 thread with a size 16 or 17. (What does the 16/17 refer to?) What size of needle so I need? 

I use a #18 (Metric 110) needle when sewing with #69 (T70) thread. This diameter is perfect for punching a large enough hole to bring the lockstitch knots up in the material, or leather, with #69 bonded thread. The 16/17 you asked about looks like part of a needle "system." e.g, 135x16 leather point of some shape, or 135x17 round point for cloth and synthetics.

[lilbax]

42 minutes ago, Wizcrafts said:

I use a #18 (Metric 110) needle when sewing with #69 (T70) thread. This diameter is perfect for punching a large enough hole to bring the lockstitch knots up in the material, or leather, with #69 bonded thread. The 16/17 you asked about looks like part of a needle "system." e.g, 135x16 leather point of some shape, or 135x17 round point for cloth and synthetics.

would this be the right one and fit my machine? 135x16 metric size 110. 

Edited January 29 by lilbax
Wrong image

[Wizcrafts]

11 hours ago, lilbax said:

would this be the right one and fit my machine? 135x16 metric size 110. 

Yes, those are the correct specs for a System 135x16 needle, size 18, to sew with #69 bonded thread, top and bottom. The only unasked question is whether or not your machine uses that needle System.. I brought this up because when I searched for needles for a Consew 230, I found System 16X257 listed, not 135x16. Did your machine come with a pack of needles that have the designation on a label? 

[Silkcut]

This is an example/size 18 needle for your machine.

I do not remotely pretend to be an expert on needles, but these are in use on my 230. I'm sure there are folks here that are much more experienced than I, that can translate all of  the  packaging info for you ,to lead you to what you need.

 This is not a package of obscure, 30 year old needles, they are currently available.  As you can see, I might have broken a few repairing horse blankets.

Edited January 29 by Silkcut

[Wizcrafts]

6 hours ago, Silkcut said:

This is an example/size 18 needle for your machine.

As I suspected. The Consew 230 must be a tailoring class machine that uses System 16x257, aka DBx1, aka 1738. The shank on these needles is thinner than the walking foot needles being mentioned earlier. Machines using this needle system are meant to sew cloth. I use this system in my ancient Singer 31-15 tailoring machine and in a Pfaff serger.