Margherita Report post Posted January 30 Hello everyone I am new in the leather work industry and I am making dog collars and leashes and sewing them by hand. But now I am interested in buying a sewing machine to speed up the process and be even more precise. I am doing some research online but it's very difficult to understand what machine will be the one perfect for me. I am working with natural leather that is 3/3.5 oz thick and/or natural leather 3oz plus a padding made with soft leather (0.8/1oz) and some foam. What would you suggest I could buy? My budget is 500/600 CAD. I found two Omega machines on e-bay that seem interesting but I read good and bad things about them at the same time (model Omega 307 and Omega walking foot WF22ZZ). Thank you a lot for your help! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Northmount Report post Posted January 30 Have read this thread? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Margherita Report post Posted January 30 Yes I have seen it and it's very interesting, but I am still a little confused/insecure about what I should buy, especially with my budget that I know it's not the biggest of all. It's also my first sewing machine for leather and I would like to avoid buying one and discover when it will arrive that it will not suit my purpose... I am a total beginner and the options are many, I would just need a tip to reduce my options given my budget. It's even possible to find something that I need to start within my budget? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kgg Report post Posted January 30 3 hours ago, Margherita said: It's also my first sewing machine for leather and I would like to avoid buying one and discover when it will arrive that it will not suit my purpose... The Omgea WF22ZZ is a Sailrite LSZ clone from more then likely China. The Omega 307 is a domestic drop feed with zig zag. I personally think you will not be pleased due to their limitations as neither are industrial machines. With your budget I would suggest dropping into a industrial sewing machine repair / service center and see what they have available in a used industrial sewing machine. There should be quite a number of them in Montreal. If you find a machine and aren't sure of it's abilities just ask on the list before purchasing. kgg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MtlBiker Report post Posted January 30 5 hours ago, Margherita said: Hello everyone I am new in the leather work industry and I am making dog collars and leashes and sewing them by hand. But now I am interested in buying a sewing machine to speed up the process and be even more precise. I am doing some research online but it's very difficult to understand what machine will be the one perfect for me. I am working with natural leather that is 3/3.5 oz thick and/or natural leather 3oz plus a padding made with soft leather (0.8/1oz) and some foam. What would you suggest I could buy? My budget is 500/600 CAD. I found two Omega machines on e-bay that seem interesting but I read good and bad things about them at the same time (model Omega 307 and Omega walking foot WF22ZZ). Thank you a lot for your help! Hi Margherita, and welcome to the forum! I'm a fellow Montrealer by the way. You're going to be buying a used machine I guess (for what you need and considering your budget). Gonna be a bit challenging and tough. What is it that you're planning to make? That might help figure out what thread size you would need which would also mean which needle size. Also you need to know if a flatbed machine or a cylinder arm would be best. Maybe a cylinder arm with flatbed table attachment (making it maybe the best of both worlds). Dog collars and leashes can be made easily on a flatbed machine but you also have to consider how many layers (probably two at least!) of leather you'll be sewing. And basically the rule of thumb is that there is NO ONE machine that will do everything or that is right for you. That's why so many of us have more than one machine. I only started sewing during the first Covid lockdown and I'm terribly hooked now and I have SIX machines! If you want to chat send me a PM and I'll give you my number. My office (not where I do my sewing) is at Pare and Decarie. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Margherita Report post Posted January 30 45 minutes ago, kgg said: The Omgea WF22ZZ is a Sailrite LSZ clone from more then likely China. The Omega 307 is a domestic drop feed with zig zag. I personally think you will not be pleased due to their limitations as neither are industrial machines. With your budget I would suggest dropping into a industrial sewing machine repair / service center and see what they have available in a used industrial sewing machine. There should be quite a number of them in Montreal. If you find a machine and aren't sure of it's abilities just ask on the list before purchasing. kgg Thank you for your suggestion. I'll definitely check industrial sewing machine repair/services. 31 minutes ago, MtlBiker said: Hi Margherita, and welcome to the forum! I'm a fellow Montrealer by the way. You're going to be buying a used machine I guess (for what you need and considering your budget). Gonna be a bit challenging and tough. What is it that you're planning to make? That might help figure out what thread size you would need which would also mean which needle size. Also you need to know if a flatbed machine or a cylinder arm would be best. Maybe a cylinder arm with flatbed table attachment (making it maybe the best of both worlds). Dog collars and leashes can be made easily on a flatbed machine but you also have to consider how many layers (probably two at least!) of leather you'll be sewing. And basically the rule of thumb is that there is NO ONE machine that will do everything or that is right for you. That's why so many of us have more than one machine. I only started sewing during the first Covid lockdown and I'm terribly hooked now and I have SIX machines! If you want to chat send me a PM and I'll give you my number. My office (not where I do my sewing) is at Pare and Decarie. I can definitely increase a bit more my budget but I definitely wanted to stay under 1K for my first one I'll send you a private message so we can chat! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Margherita Report post Posted February 2 (edited) On 1/30/2024 at 2:46 PM, kgg said: The Omgea WF22ZZ is a Sailrite LSZ clone from more then likely China. The Omega 307 is a domestic drop feed with zig zag. I personally think you will not be pleased due to their limitations as neither are industrial machines. With your budget I would suggest dropping into a industrial sewing machine repair / service center and see what they have available in a used industrial sewing machine. There should be quite a number of them in Montreal. If you find a machine and aren't sure of it's abilities just ask on the list before purchasing. kgg Hello again I found this machine on Kijiji I've never heard about this brand, could it be ok I contacted the seller because he didn't put any specification on the product. Also I found a Juki LU 563 and a Juki DDL-5600N (both in the price range 700-800$), any suggestion on that? Edited February 2 by Margherita Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MtlBiker Report post Posted February 2 @Margherita - I haven't heard of "Relsew" machines. It looks like it might have a servo motor - if so, good. But is it a compound walking foot? Maybe someone else will comment, but to me it looks like it might be a machine more suitable for high-speed fabric sewing than what you're looking for. (And I'm sure, and hope, that @kgg will see this soon and comment.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kgg Report post Posted February 2 1 hour ago, Margherita said: I've never heard about this brand, could it be ok I contacted the seller because he didn't put any specification on the product. Also I found a Juki LU 563 and a Juki DDL-5600N (both in the price range 700-800$), any suggestion on that? The Relsew if I'm not mistake was sold by Reliable out of Toronto many years ago before they had their own line of clones. The Relsew is a drop feed sewing machine made for fabric and has a clutch motor. The Juki 5600N is also a drop feed machine made for thicker fabrics. I would suggest seriously looking at the Juki 563 and maybe post some pictures of the machine prior to purchasing. kgg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Margherita Report post Posted February 2 (edited) 51 minutes ago, kgg said: The Relsew if I'm not mistake was sold by Reliable out of Toronto many years ago before they had their own line of clones. The Relsew is a drop feed sewing machine made for fabric and has a clutch motor. The Juki 5600N is also a drop feed machine made for thicker fabrics. I would suggest seriously looking at the Juki 563 and maybe post some pictures of the machine prior to purchasing. kgg I just came back from the place that sells the Juki 563. They will install for me also the drop down edge, give me 6 months of warranty, bobbins, needles and shipped it for free. Since I'll work from home they also said the table could be cut 8' to adjust my space. It seems in good conditions for 750$ but since I am not an expert I'll ask you Here you can find some pics that I took: Should I just go for it? Edited February 2 by Margherita Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MtlBiker Report post Posted February 2 (edited) @Margherita - No photo showing the motor area? Do you know if it has a clutch or servo motor? I'd be willing to bet it's a clutch motor. And if so, you'll definitely want to change to a servo. Is that some sort of machine dealer, or a sewing workshop? (Meaning if you can tell if the machine has been used in a high volume production setting.) I may be missing something but it looks like the machine has no way to adjust stitch length, which would be something I would absolutely want. Edited February 2 by MtlBiker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MtlBiker Report post Posted February 2 @Margherita - Have you seen this thread from about 3 years ago about that machine? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Margherita Report post Posted February 2 18 minutes ago, MtlBiker said: @Margherita - Have you seen this thread from about 3 years ago about that machine? I didn't sometimes I type on here what I look for and nothing comes up. But anyway I didn't look at motor also because being ignorant I really would have just looked and noticed nothing to be completely honest. I was pleased with the 6 month warranty and the fact I can notice if something is wrong and bring it back Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Margherita Report post Posted February 2 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Margherita said: I didn't sometimes I type on here what I look for and nothing comes up. But anyway I didn't look at motor also because being ignorant I really would have just looked and noticed nothing to be completely honest. I was pleased with the 6 month warranty and the fact I can notice if something is wrong and bring it back @MtlBiker but I saw this very useful video and it seems you can adjust your stitch length... Edited February 2 by Margherita Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kgg Report post Posted February 2 2 hours ago, Margherita said: They will install for me also the drop down edge, give me 6 months of warranty, bobbins, needles and shipped it for free. Since I'll work from home they also said the table could be cut 8' to adjust my space. 2 hours ago, Margherita said: It seems in good conditions for 750$ but since I am not an expert I'll ask you The warranty and delivery at $750 is a decent price. Needles determine what size of thread you are going to use. Typical would be V92 and V138 thread so you would need needle sizes from #20 to #24 depending on thread and thickness being sewn. For Fabric you would need system 135x17 and for leather system 135x16 needles. A good needle reference chart for thread size can be found at https://www.tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html My suggestions: i) Since this machine has a non standard size table I would ask them to swap that table for a normal size industrial sewing machine table. That table does suggest that the machine was used in production environment. ii) I would venture to guess this machine has a clutch motor so ask them what the cost of a 550 watt servo motor would be?? The retail price for a servo motor would be somewhere around $200 CAD. If their price is too high then I would strongly suggest buying one and installing it yourself. The learning curve of using a clutch motor can be steep and they are always running whereas a servo motor will give you the control that you need as well as being almost silent when running while you are sewing. I think @MtlBiker may know of un-used 550 watt servo motor. iii) Get them to go over the machines operating the basics of threading the machine, winding a bobbin, installing the bobbin, oiling etc. kgg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Margherita Report post Posted February 2 2 hours ago, kgg said: The warranty and delivery at $750 is a decent price. Needles determine what size of thread you are going to use. Typical would be V92 and V138 thread so you would need needle sizes from #20 to #24 depending on thread and thickness being sewn. For Fabric you would need system 135x17 and for leather system 135x16 needles. A good needle reference chart for thread size can be found at https://www.tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html My suggestions: i) Since this machine has a non standard size table I would ask them to swap that table for a normal size industrial sewing machine table. That table does suggest that the machine was used in production environment. ii) I would venture to guess this machine has a clutch motor so ask them what the cost of a 550 watt servo motor would be?? The retail price for a servo motor would be somewhere around $200 CAD. If their price is too high then I would strongly suggest buying one and installing it yourself. The learning curve of using a clutch motor can be steep and they are always running whereas a servo motor will give you the control that you need as well as being almost silent when running while you are sewing. I think @MtlBiker may know of un-used 550 watt servo motor. iii) Get them to go over the machines operating the basics of threading the machine, winding a bobbin, installing the bobbin, oiling etc. kgg Thank you so much for all the tips I asked the vendor and I am waiting for his reply. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MtlBiker Report post Posted February 2 (edited) @Margherita - After checking out some reviews of that machine and watching the video you linked to (thanks) I think this might be a really good machine for you. I don't understand how the stitch length works with a button and no dial or lever, but I guess it does. Nice things are that it's got triple (unison) feed, a safety clutch and those older Jukis are built like tanks. I'm pretty sure you'd be able to sell it in a year or two without losing much (if any) money. Juki machines probably hold their value better than any other brand. The six month warranty is good, but remember that the machine (even just the head without motor) is really heavy and you'd probably have to take the head off the table and bring it back to the dealer. But luckily there are lots of repair/maintenance videos around and parts are readily available. Besides, the experts here are always willing to offer helpful advice. I do agree with @kgg about trying to get a standard table with the machine even though you're limited in space. Make sure the machine is in good operating condition and that the dealer shows you how everything works. I'd say go for it. One more thing... if the dealer gives you a good price on a servo motor (in case it now has a clutch) and will install it, see if he could possibly install a smaller motor pulley, like maybe 45mm. You don't need a speed reducer and the smaller pulley really helps with slow speed sewing control. Edited February 2 by MtlBiker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Margherita Report post Posted February 5 On 2/2/2024 at 6:34 PM, MtlBiker said: @Margherita - After checking out some reviews of that machine and watching the video you linked to (thanks) I think this might be a really good machine for you. I don't understand how the stitch length works with a button and no dial or lever, but I guess it does. Nice things are that it's got triple (unison) feed, a safety clutch and those older Jukis are built like tanks. I'm pretty sure you'd be able to sell it in a year or two without losing much (if any) money. Juki machines probably hold their value better than any other brand. The six month warranty is good, but remember that the machine (even just the head without motor) is really heavy and you'd probably have to take the head off the table and bring it back to the dealer. But luckily there are lots of repair/maintenance videos around and parts are readily available. Besides, the experts here are always willing to offer helpful advice. I do agree with @kgg about trying to get a standard table with the machine even though you're limited in space. Make sure the machine is in good operating condition and that the dealer shows you how everything works. I'd say go for it. One more thing... if the dealer gives you a good price on a servo motor (in case it now has a clutch) and will install it, see if he could possibly install a smaller motor pulley, like maybe 45mm. You don't need a speed reducer and the smaller pulley really helps with slow speed sewing control. Thank you again and again! I just called again the dealer and yeah the machine now has a clutch motor but I asked and he offered me a servo motor (plus installation) for 195$, and reading about you and @kegg comments I think it could be a good deal! My only doubt on it is that I will need to be slow and precise so maybe clutch it would be better for me to start? Anyway I am pretty set on this machine and tomorrow I'll go there and try it, so I did everything that I could in terms of research before buying it. The table that the machine have now I think is the standard one, 48x20 or am I wrong? So do you think if I make him cut it a bit smaller it wouldn't be a great move? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted February 5 35 minutes ago, Margherita said: My only doubt on it is that I will need to be slow and precise so maybe clutch it would be better for me to start? When I started accumulating industrial sewing machines, they ALL had clutch motors. There weren't any servo motors available yet. So, I asked the dealers how I could get control over the clutch and they explained the tricks and techniques to me. One thing I did (and still do) is to add slack movement to the control arm so it takes more movement before the disks engage. This is done by backing off the large screw that goes into the motor on the clutch cap end. The more you back it out, the greater the free movement. Next, I learned that applying a very thin coating of machine grease allowed the clutch to slip a bit before it fully engaged. I eventually stopped needing to do that. The final adjustment was positioning the floor pedal to take any stress off of my foot. The linkage coming down from the control arm can be adjusted to raise or lower the inside edge of the pedal to suit your foot and ankle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kgg Report post Posted February 5 2 hours ago, Margherita said: My only doubt on it is that I will need to be slow and precise so maybe clutch it would be better for me to start? The problem I found is that if you are a little tired, have a little leg jerk or otherwise slip a little bit you stand the chance of royally screwing up the piece you are working on. The servo motor provides much better control right out of the box. The price of $195 for a servo motor installed is a decent price. Definitely worth the investment. On 2/2/2024 at 6:03 PM, Margherita said: Since I'll work from home they also said the table could be cut 8' to adjust my space. I assumed the table was larger as you said it could be cut 8 feet (8'). 2 hours ago, Margherita said: The table that the machine have now I think is the standard one, 48x20 or am I wrong? So do you think if I make him cut it a bit smaller it wouldn't be a great move? Yes the standard is approximately 48" x 20". Unless you are really limited in the space you have I wouldn't bother. kgg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dikman Report post Posted February 5 Not withstanding Wiz's reply a clutch motor is not for the fainthearted! As a newbie you will have enough to worry about without trying to master a clutch motor too! $195 sounds like a good deal to replace the motor with a servo, it is something you would do eventually and it will be easier to get the dealer to do it before you take delivery. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toxo Report post Posted February 5 6 hours ago, Margherita said: The table that the machine have now I think is the standard one, 48x20 or am I wrong? So do you think if I make him cut it a bit smaller it wouldn't be a great move? If it's a standard old type table, The metal legs/framework is just underneath the table ends so you may not be able to cut it down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MtlBiker Report post Posted February 5 @Margherita - Not much to add to what's already been said. Yes, I think $195 installed for the servo motor is a good deal. And it eliminates any frustration you might have in changing the motor. Definitely go for the servo! Quieter and much better control. And if it's a standard table, I'd also say to keep it. Would 8" really make much difference in your space? And the cut certainly wouldn't be on the right side of the table but rather on the left and even with a full size table you will sometimes wish you had more flat space there. Sounds like the dealer is really going the extra mile to make the sale. Best of luck to you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Margherita Report post Posted February 6 Thank you so much everyone! This forum has bee super helpful! @kgg @MtlBiker @toxo @dikman @Wizcrafts <3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
