What am I doing wrong? Saddle Soap Making

[ToddW]

I have tried 2 different recipes for a saddle soap that uses: water, soap (I am using a Glycerin Soap vs Ivory) BeesWax and neatfoots oil.  Followed the parts/weights....instructions.. to a T..  stirred the mixture as it cooled and it never thickens and stays a white liquid all night..  I am pouring it into a round 4oz tin.. even stirred the first attempt in the can to make sure it wasn't separating..  The receipts / video's result in a paste..  I wouldn't even call mine a cream..  I think I may need to back the water in the receipe way down but don't understand why mine is so different or a failure and the video's produce what I am trying to achieve.  Thoughts?

Edited March 19 by ToddW

[Mulesaw]

@ToddW I'd try to use some ivory soap at first.

I haven't got any experience whatsoever in glycerin soap, but I use grated soap a lot for washing our floors at home. If I make a solution of grated soap and water and leaves it to stand it will turn pasty in a matter of half an hour. 
I am pretty sure that the grated soap is just regular white soap that has been grated, but in Denmark you can still buy it everywhere, so I have never tried to grate my own. An American I know used Castile soap that he grated and mixed with water to make a soap paste, and that worked well. I think you can also buy a product called soap flakes. 

I think that there is a lot of difference between different types of soap as to if they swell up when left with water or not, and given that neither the beeswax or the neatsfoot oil should do any thickening it must be the soap. Maybe another brand of glycerin soap would do the same, but like I said ,I have never tried a glycerin soap (to my knowledge at least).

Good luck :-)

Brgds Jonas

[ToddW]

7 hours ago, Mulesaw said:

@ToddW I'd try to use some ivory soap at first.

Went to the store and the had Kirk's Castile Fragrance free soap so going to try to mix up a batch using that.. I have had 2 fails now so hopefully this will be a winner.

[Mulesaw]

22 minutes ago, ToddW said:

Went to the store and the had Kirk's Castile Fragrance free soap so going to try to mix up a batch using that.. I have had 2 fails now so hopefully this will be a winner.

I'll keep my fingers crossed, 

[jcuk]

Not sure if you can get this your side of the pond but may work. I have never tried to make my own saddle soap, when it can be brought from companies that have been making it for years, because by the time you do get it right, the cost maybe more than just purchasing off the shelf.

https://www.pearspuresince1807.com/us/products/pears-pure-and-gentle-soap

Hope this helps

JCUK 

[ToddW]

ok.. I had 2 success after a bit of a science experiment.. I guy in a soap making group on Facebook found a saddle soap recipe using Glycerin and it set just fine.. I then made my recipe using Kirks Castille fragrance free bars grated and that set.  I am thinking substituting glycerine soap instead of Ivory (I used Castille soap) messed my ratios up..  Both set just fine...  now to find an old pair of boots using one soap on one boot and the other on the alternate boot.. I am thinking they both perform equally.  Just don't know which one to make now..  Any thoughts?  The Glycerin soap is just a pure soap base so should not have anything harsh in it.  Kirks Castille Fragrance free soap claims to be:  All Natural Hypoallergenic Skin Care with No Animal By-Products or Synthetic Detergents..Pure Botanical Coconut Oil Soap

so both sound like it will be fine..  Thoughts??

[Mulesaw]

@ToddW That's great to hear that you got it to work :-)

I got to think of the other day that your initial problems could be if the soap "part" is measured after it has been grated. 
If a recipe says parts, I always think in volume, and there is a lot of difference between one tablespoon of grated soap vs a tablespoon of solid soap bar. 

Both soaps sound like they are OK and I guess most mild soap types fall into that category. 

If you are looking for a new type of saddle soap to make, you could try to experiment with making a pure neatsfoot based soap.

My soap making book is at home, but it describes that most soaps that are made with liquid oils is going to be paste like (save for olive oil that will make a very firm soap).
A quick search right now gave a saponification number for neatsfoot oil of 190-203. that should be for KOH (Kalium Hydroxide). KOH gives a soap that is more paste like compared to NaOH (Sodium hydroxide).

The basic idea is that you make a lye out of either of the bases that you want to use, and the weight and volume depends on the oil/fat type you want to use. To make sure your soap leaves behind a little bit of actual neatsfoot oil, you only make the lye mix 90-95% of what it technically should be (the saponification number). That way all the lye has got some fat/oil to react to, and there will be a small surplus of oil in the soap.

The fat/oil is heated to warm on the stove and the lye is slowly poured in. I mix using an old stick blender from a thrift shop. After some time (depending on what oil/fat you use and if you ad honey or beeswax or other things) the mixture will start looking like mayonnaise,  and then it is ready to be poured into forms.

The soap needs to continue its saponification in the forms for some time, but mind you I have only made soap that will become hard, so I don't know how long time you would have to let it sit for a paste soap. But this time is to enable the lye to do its stuff to the oil/fat to convert it to soap.

Lye is highly caustic and will cause chemical burns to skin and tissue. It will cause blindness if you get it into your eyes, so you need to wear proper protection equipment. The same goes for the basic chemicals to make the lye, Sodium hydroxide and Kalium hydroxide. So be careful.

These are the basic steps, but soap making is really fun, and doesn't require a lot of gear to get started in. I'd recommend you to get some sort of basic soap making book, as there are a lot of tips and instructions that could prove valuable.

Good luck and be careful with the chemicals.

Brgds Jonas

[ScottWolf]

On 3/18/2024 at 6:13 PM, ToddW said:

I have tried 2 different recipes for a saddle soap that uses: water, soap (I am using a Glycerin Soap vs Ivory) BeesWax and neatfoots oil.  Followed the parts/weights....instructions.. to a T..  stirred the mixture as it cooled and it never thickens and stays a white liquid all night..  I am pouring it into a round 4oz tin.. even stirred the first attempt in the can to make sure it wasn't separating..  The receipts / video's result in a paste..  I wouldn't even call mine a cream..  I think I may need to back the water in the receipe way down but don't understand why mine is so different or a failure and the video's produce what I am trying to achieve.  Thoughts?

Here are two recipes that I have used that may work for you. You can replace the coconut oil with NFO if thats what you want to use. The glycerin sopa comes out hard while the other one will have more of a firm paste feel to it.

 

RECIPE #1

 

16 oz  of Dr Bronner's Castille Soap(choose the fragrance you want. I used peppermint in this recipe)

1ea 1lb block of beeswax and coconut oil

 

Melt 1/2lb of the block of Beeswax/coconut oil down for a less waxy end product thats softer or melt the entire 1lb block down for a harder but slightly waxy feeling product.

 

 **If you cannot find the pre mixed block like the one mentioned, you can buy and add the ingredients individually. The quantities are as follows:

 

1/2 cup of Coconut oil

16 tablespoons of Beeswax

 

Solid beeswax can be measured by displacing liquid.  For example, to measure 1 Tablespoon beeswax use the following method.

 

Since 4 tablespoons of liquid equal 1/4 cup, add 3 tablespoons of water to a clear measuring cup.  Add lumps of solid wax until the water reaches the 1/4 cup line.  Pour off the water.  The remaining wax equals 1 tablespoon.  Set the wax aside to dry before using it in any formula.**

 

Once completely melted down and liquified, turn the heat down and add in 16 oz of the Castille soap and stir until mixed thoroughly. Once you remove it from the heat, you need to work quick, as it will start to set up fairly quickly. Pour it into your tins/mason jars or bowls.

 

This will set up fairly quickly and after a few hours be semi solid. After 2-3 days, it will harden even more. The end product will lather up nicely with a toothbrush/shoe brush and water.

 

RECIPE #2 

 

1 ea 1lb of Glycerin

1/2 cup Coconut oil

16 oz Castille soap

 

Cut up the Glycerin into cubes and drop them into the pot and stir until entirely melted, lower the heat. Add in the Castille soap and stir until thoroughly mixed and then add in the coconut oil and stir it in. Remove from heat and begin pouring into your tins/mason jars/bowls and allow to harden.

 

This recipe takes a bit longer for it to harden completely, but is solid to the touch after about 2 days and ready to be used. Using a tooth brush and water, the product produces a moderate creamy lather.

[ToddW]

2 hours ago, ScottWolf said:

16 oz  of Dr Bronner's Castille Soap(choose the fragrance you want. I used peppermint in this recipe)

do you use the liquid or bar form of Dr Bronner's Castille Soap?

[ScottWolf]

7 hours ago, ToddW said:

do you use the liquid or bar form of Dr Bronner's Castille Soap?

I use the liquid out of convenience, but bar also works.