Weird and frustrating obstacle Setting up shoe patcher

[kgg]

3 hours ago, Tastech said:

Just wondering . Do these machines perform as crappy as they look ? Man where is the workmanship in those machines . Looks like it was made by a one armed and one eyed grandmother with an irritable bowel  living in a dumpster .

That is why I fondly refer to them as a " Tinkers Delight ". They do have their place but you need to be willing to put the effort into getting them running right and presentable.

kgg 

[Mulesaw]

On 5/3/2024 at 3:18 PM, Annikita said:

So, here's the issue I'm talking about. I should have posted this first. The bearing that is typically supposed to fit the inner groove (according to the manuals/videos I've seen) can't possibly align with the groove properly. It fits the outer groove when I try to put everything together, but I think it may be inhibiting the wheel from moving properly?

 

I have been looking a bit more on your picture. 

The bearing for the main shaft looks as though it is seated just a smidge deeper than the casting. If you put a ruler across you would be able to see if the ruler touches the main casting instead of touching the bearing.

If that is the case, then whenever you mount the flywheel, it will bind on those edges and make it difficult to turn. If any washers accompanied the machine, you could try to put one on the shaft. It would probably need to have a "keyhole" shape, so that it could slide over the protruding part of the shaft. 

Please let us know if you manage to sort it out :-)

Good luck

Brgds Jonas

[AlZilla]

On 5/3/2024 at 1:23 PM, kgg said:

That is why I fondly refer to them as a " Tinkers Delight ". They do have their place but you need to be willing to put the effort into getting them running right and presentable.

kgg 

I get that these things have a following.  But I just can't make myself buy something when the seller and I both understand that it doesn't work.

[GerryR]

11 minutes ago, AlZilla said:

I get that these things have a following.  But I just can't make myself buy something when the seller and I both understand that it doesn't work.

Much of the work done on these machines is for appearance sake, trying to make them look better.  I have had a couple of these and they work "out-of-the-box."  I can easily sew up to 20 oz. leather with these machines.  Maybe I got the luck-of-the draw, but I think they get a bad rap because of their looks and price.  What would you expect to get for ~$100. 00 these days?  On the one I have presently, I did convert it to the 135x system for more needle options. Even that was very easy to accomplish.  It still is the cheapest way to get into "machine" sewing of leather though not as elegant as other machines, unless someone just gives you a machine.  

[chuck123wapati]

40 minutes ago, AlZilla said:

I get that these things have a following.  But I just can't make myself buy something when the seller and I both understand that it doesn't work.

 

It took me about two hours to clean up the wear surfaces and lube it up. Most of the work was on the foot, the teeth are  when they should be  but It worked great even with the crap mono thread sent with it. All sewing machines need to set up for the job after that and this is no different. You can set them up to sew 2 oz to 20 oz pretty easily i even sew canvas with mine. 

[Annikita]

On 5/5/2024 at 4:07 AM, Mulesaw said:

I have been looking a bit more on your picture. 

The bearing for the main shaft looks as though it is seated just a smidge deeper than the casting. If you put a ruler across you would be able to see if the ruler touches the main casting instead of touching the bearing.

If that is the case, then whenever you mount the flywheel, it will bind on those edges and make it difficult to turn. If any washers accompanied the machine, you could try to put one on the shaft. It would probably need to have a "keyhole" shape, so that it could slide over the protruding part of the shaft. 

Please let us know if you manage to sort it out :-)

Good luck

Brgds Jonas

Yeah, I think that's what I was trying to communicate - the anatomy of this particular machine is new to me. I feel like this may be an actual defect, although that wouldn't seem to be particularly common with these. I have my eye on a similar model that has a bit more credibility (and it's painted really nicely) so I may try my luck again - I've put enough research into these that I don't think it makes sense to abandon the project entirely. I've taken antique singers apart and put them back together ALMOST successfully, so this SHOULD be within my abilities...

[Annikita]

On 5/3/2024 at 9:59 AM, GerryR said:

You need to slide the shaft out manually so it does fit in the inner groove.  Once you have both bearings in their proper grooves, the handwheel should be in alligmment with the pin on the shaft.

Can you describe that process for me? I can't find any references to that in any of my materials...

[GerryR]

The bearing that is attached to the horizontal arm is what works the hook;  it slides left and right.  Slide it, in or out, to where it lines up with the inner groove of the handwheel when putting the handwheel on the shaft.  Then line up the other bearing, the one on the arm going to the needle bar, with the outer groove, rotating the handwheel so the pin on the handwheel shaft goes into the notch of the handwheel.  Also, there is a washer that goes between the handwheel and the shaft bearing to prevent the handwheel from rubbing the frame.  If your unit is missing the washer, find one that fits over the shaft and remove the pin in the shaft and install it.  If you can't get the pin out, file a notch in the washer to slip over the pin.  The other option for a "washer" would be to take a solid piece of copper wire (12 or 14 AWG house wire) and make a single wrap, end-to-end, around the shaft behind the pin and then put the handwheel on.  Hope this helps!

Edited May 6 by GerryR

[chuck123wapati]

46 minutes ago, Annikita said:

Can you describe that process for me? I can't find any references to that in any of my materials...

i'll re post my thoughts have you tried them?

here ya go i can pull the thing apart if you need but you can just see the lower bearing in the first pic it rides about halfway out of the groove. The lower bearing runs the bobbin back and forth so it should slide easily back and forth while the bearing arm runs the needle arm up and down. You should be able to slide the bobbin shaft and bearing back or forward to get the bearing into the inner smaller raceway. If it wont move something is wrong. As Wyowally said these things need to be tinkered with a bit before they run smoothly and there are tons of youtubes on that subject.

 

if the wheel wont move then the bobbin shaft or something inside the arm is jammed up.

ok if the bearing and shaft its connected to wont move freely back and forth then you have a problem inside the arm. the bearing isn't the problem you should be able to easily move it back and forth. you are going to have to take it apart to figure out what is jammed up. 

[Annikita]

5 hours ago, GerryR said:

The bearing that is attached to the horizontal arm is what works the hook;  it slides left and right.  Slide it, in or out, to where it lines up with the inner groove of the handwheel when putting the handwheel on the shaft.  Then line up the other bearing, the one on the arm going to the needle bar, with the outer groove, rotating the handwheel so the pin on the handwheel shaft goes into the notch of the handwheel.  Also, there is a washer that goes between the handwheel and the shaft bearing to prevent the handwheel from rubbing the frame.  If your unit is missing the washer, find one that fits over the shaft and remove the pin in the shaft and install it.  If you can't get the pin out, file a notch in the washer to slip over the pin.  The other option for a "washer" would be to take a solid piece of copper wire (12 or 14 AWG house wire) and make a single wrap, end-to-end, around the shaft behind the pin and then put the handwheel on.  Hope this helps!

So the bearing DOES slide! That's what I was trying to fix. (Btw I think I do have spare washers for the wheel.) How might I go about sliding this thing? Do I have to unscrew anything nearby?

[Annikita]

4 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

i'll re post my thoughts have you tried them?

here ya go i can pull the thing apart if you need but you can just see the lower bearing in the first pic it rides about halfway out of the groove. The lower bearing runs the bobbin back and forth so it should slide easily back and forth while the bearing arm runs the needle arm up and down. You should be able to slide the bobbin shaft and bearing back or forward to get the bearing into the inner smaller raceway. If it wont move something is wrong. As Wyowally said these things need to be tinkered with a bit before they run smoothly and there are tons of youtubes on that subject.

 

if the wheel wont move then the bobbin shaft or something inside the arm is jammed up.

ok if the bearing and shaft its connected to wont move freely back and forth then you have a problem inside the arm. the bearing isn't the problem you should be able to easily move it back and forth. you are going to have to take it apart to figure out what is jammed up. 

Yes that's the issue - I had wondered if this was the fix. The thing won't budge - I was going to take it apart the other day but I think someone advised me otherwise because it might mess with the bobbin settings, but I don't think there's any other way out of this. 

[chuck123wapati]

13 minutes ago, Annikita said:

Yes that's the issue - I had wondered if this was the fix. The thing won't budge - I was going to take it apart the other day but I think someone advised me otherwise because it might mess with the bobbin settings, but I don't think there's any other way out of this. 

check in this order!!!!

take out the bobbin and see if that is stuck

take out the bobbin holder with a pair of tweezers see if that is stuck, replace it in exactly the same position it came out it 

there should be a plate under the arm and bobbin it has the bobbin base pin attached to it, take it off and see what you can then if you still don't see what's hanging it up it may be necessary to take off the arm. take it off by removing the three bolts underneath the arm and take it off.

last thing is  if you do have to take off the bobbin shaft from the bearing block then mark the location of those two bolts( shown as left of the bearing in the pictures) before you loosen them so you can maintain the timing of the machine.

[chuck123wapati]

9 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

check in this order!!!!

take out the bobbin and see if that is stuck

take out the bobbin holder with a pair of tweezers see if that is stuck, replace it in exactly the same position it came out it 

there should be a plate under the arm and bobbin it has the bobbin base pin attached to it, take it off and see what you can then if you still don't see what's hanging it up it may be necessary to take off the arm. take it off by removing the three bolts underneath the arm and take it off.

last thing is  if you do have to take off the bobbin shaft from the bearing block then mark the location of those two bolts( shown as left of the bearing in the pictures) before you loosen them so you can maintain the timing of the machine.

I will add the bobbin base and the arm length are both fundamental to timing the machine. Bobbin base location and the two bolts are what can alter the timing but its pretty easy to time them if some thing does go wrong.