Stubben Saddle Billets

[TomE]

I normally charge $150 to change billets, which is what I quoted to this client.  I figure about 1 hr to make the billets - edge finishing, punching 6-7 buckle holes and 12 holes for sewing onto the webs.  Dressage saddles have 4 billets (~2 ft long) and jumping saddles have 6 billets (~1 foot long).  Another 1-1/2 hrs to disassemble the panel, sew the billets, and restitch the front of the panel. Materials are 6-8 feet of 1" strap from the best part of the hide, some thread, and staples.  Some saddles have surprises like a billet that is directly riveted to the tree.

For sewing the billets, I use a single needle backstitch with doubled up 0.040" waxed polyester thread from the Maine Thread Co.  The billets are pre-punched with 6 holes in 2 lines.  I avoid pushing an awl through the webs so I don't cut the threads.  The backstitch pattern gathers more threads per stitch on the backside when sewing leather to woven fabric.

This saddle took considerably longer to completely remove the panel - cut the lacing in back, remove ~15 staples - and then to restaple and lace the panel to the back of the seat.  All this disassembly was required to expose 4 staples that attach the 2 tabs on the front of the panel (see in picture above) to the tree. 

I think my prices will be increasing.  I've seen saddlers listing a price of $180-$200 for changing billets.  I messaged Stubben's saddler/service manager about this particular saddle.  He said it is the most difficult construction that he deals with (PIA in his words) and he charges $300 for this type.

[Goldshot Ron]

Thanks Tom,  that's helpful information.

[Mulesaw]

It is a strange construction, I am also most used to saddles that are stitched in the fwd part. 

I have repaired a couple of Passier Mono Optimum dressage saddles lately. It is admittedly a professional rider that uses them so they see a lot of working hours. But I think that the main course of most of the wear that I see on those particular saddles are due to lack of cleaning.

Most people happily oil away on their saddles and give them nourishing creme etc. But the very fine dust that comes from riding in a riding house or on a dusty track gets stuck in that grease/oil and soon starts acting like very fine sandpaper. It also goes on the boots, and pretty soon the lower part of the saddle flaps wear through. 

I have tried to tell her as diplomatic as I can, but it is kind of hard to break the truth to someone when they haven't even asked why I think the saddles look the way they do. I mean if I was a customer I'd probably feel insulted if someone kind of accused me of not cleaning my stuff thoroughly. 
It is a different matter if they genuinely ask: Why do you think this happens? Then I'd be able to show them where the dust and grease accumulates and scrape a bit if it of and make them feel it between two nails that it really is abrasive. I think that would give them a better understanding of the importance of cleaning the tack - not just grease it.

Before I started the last repair job, I cleaned it the best I could, but I didn't want to use an hour or so on that without having cleared it with the customer, but it still helped a lot as I could see.

Brgds Jonas

[TomE]

@Mulesaw  That's a good point, Jonas.  In an interview with an Olympic groom, who was retiring after working for several well known riders over the years, she mentioned that she uses dilute houshold ammonia to cut through the sweat and scum on tack before futher cleaning and conditioning.  Ammonia might also clean up an oil/greasy surface caused by inadequate care.  It is interesting to me to read discussions proposing to only use "natural" and pH balanced products for tack care, in light of how leather is tanned and the strength of the bonds that join the collagen fibers in tanned leather.  My main concern would be removing too much of the oils and fats in the leather, but I think we have solutions for that problem.

Edited September 15, 2024 by TomE

[Mulesaw]

@TomE Good idea with diluted ammonia, I just used grated soap and tepid water, but I had troubles getting the old "caked" grease off. So the ammonia might be a better choice for a start cleaning. And I normally give the saddles a light touch over with grease afterwards anyway, so they look nice and the customer can see that I care about their tack. - so removing a bit of oil/grease in the cleaning process wouldn't be a big deal since it will be reapplied :-)

Brgds Jonas

[Goldshot Ron]

I use to have a formula for a simple cleaner using: water, ammonia, and a few drops of Ivory dish soap.  It was suggested in a restoration article I read many years ago.  I do not remember the person who suggested it, but I have used it on real greasy leather and it worked well.  

[Mulesaw]

7 hours ago, Goldshot Ron said:

I use to have a formula for a simple cleaner using: water, ammonia, and a few drops of Ivory dish soap.  It was suggested in a restoration article I read many years ago.  I do not remember the person who suggested it, but I have used it on real greasy leather and it worked well.  

Thanks for the tip, sounds like a doable recipe (not something with drops of unicorn blood and tailfeathers of a speckled Kiwibird :-)

Brgds Jonas

 

[jcuk]

Oh yes the rabbit warren of English saddles different manufacturing techniques from country to country or even just different companies, sometimes even the same make of saddle owned by two different riders can throw up some of things making you think how they have done this, been there as well scratching my head at times but as you say its an education at times and a major PIA. Good job on the repair. 

On 9/13/2024 at 6:43 AM, Mulesaw said:

Some of the European saddles have the billet attached to the tree with a copper rivet. and I have seen a single one that was attached using a screw.

I am not a fan of this think its just to save a few pennies and a small bit of time. I am under the impression the riveted/screwed billet is like the spare wheel in your car it will get you home it not to be used long term if one of stitched billets have broken.  

Hope this helps

JCUK

[TomE]

2 hours ago, jcuk said:

Oh yes the rabbit warren of English saddles different manufacturing techniques from country to country or even just different companies, sometimes even the same make of saddle owned by two different riders can throw up some of things making you think how they have done this, been there as well scratching my head at times but as you say its an education at times and a major PIA. Good job on the repair. 

I am not a fan of this think its just to save a few pennies and a small bit of time. I am under the impression the riveted/screwed billet is like the spare wheel in your car it will get you home it not to be used long term if one of stitched billets have broken.  

Hope this helps

JCUK

I am now the proud owner of a pneumatic rivet setter and stapler. Maybe I can go into the upohlstery business.   

Wish I could find more formal instruction and references on building English saddles.  I was told that the books by Shields ("To Handmake a Saddle") and Davis ("The Saddler") are hopelessly out of date, but I find them interesting even if only historical.  Maybe the old construction methods are superior?  

[Mulesaw]

@TomE

I just remembered that I once downloaded this paper on how to build an English saddle.

I found it in an old tread on this forum

Scroll down to the 2nd last comment. There is a link for the pdf there. The first link is dead, but down there the Moderator Northmount added it.

Have fun reading it.

Brgds Jonas