waynebergman Report post Posted September 22 (edited) I have just bought a used tippmann boss machine. I took a chance on it as it was not working properly at time of purchase but it looked like low mileage and it I bought it from the original owner with reciept from 10 years or so back. This is my first machine and I wanted a machine that could come close to the look I am doing with hand stitching using a twist point chistle pricking system. I still want to source out a thiner bonded poly thread than the tan thread shown in the photos as this too thick for the look I want. I did find some twist needles shown in the photos also that give the twist pierce and angle the stitch so glad for this. I have another set of needles the same make but smaller to match the 207 or 277 thread I want to try. I really stuggled with the tensioning system and thought is was a poor design, also even tippman has conflicting instructions on how to thread through the primary and secondary tensioners. Shown in the photo is a work around that seems to give me better results. I have used a decent quality fishing reel and its drag setting to dial in what I feel is a better tension solution. I have bypassed three of the tippmann tensioners (tippmanns secondary tension looks like its being used but its really not doing anything). I feel this set up gives a clean pull on thread with out stressing the thread wrapping around what i feel are friction points that would be better off tensioned by the fishig reel instead of the thread (in my opinion). The photo of the black thread is my hand stitch efforts using T 69 and its the look I want with the angle of the stitch to its line, I am not there yet but sneeking up on it and hoping when my smaller gauage needles arrive with the thinner thread I can get closer. I thought I would share this for input from the forum. This is my first machine and my understanding of sewing machines are very limited but the fishing reel gives my a huge improvement on results so far. ...........wayne Edited September 22 by waynebergman typo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dwight Report post Posted September 23 You are a genius my friend . . . Now . . . where did I put my fishing equipment . . . May God bless, Dwight Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
badhatter1005 Report post Posted September 23 I really like this setup. I use a tippman Boss myself and have struggled with the tensioning. Is there any way you would be willing to do a video on how you set this up? Potentially YouTube it. I would greatly appreciate it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dwight Report post Posted September 23 3 hours ago, badhatter1005 said: I really like this setup. I use a tippman Boss myself and have struggled with the tensioning. Is there any way you would be willing to do a video on how you set this up? Potentially YouTube it. I would greatly appreciate it. Add a real good shot at that reel . . . including model number and mfg . . . I use a cowboy 4500 for almost all my work . . . but would like to be able to fall back occasionally on the Boss for special products. This would make life a big bunch simpler when I do that. May God bless, Dwight Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waynebergman Report post Posted September 23 (edited) Thanks for the encouragment folks. A few photos here to show better how to install and the modell of the reel I used. Any reel should work as long as its got a good drag adjustment and you can turn off the clicking adjuster on the reel so its a steady drag . The one photo shows a red arrow - this is the alan head machine screw that holds the original thread spool plater on the machine. I took the thread holder off and just used this screw to attach my reel in place. I had to drill out the tab on my reel to a larger hole at 1/4" to accomodate the alan head machine screw, so pretty simple install really. The tippmann seconday tension washers are just kind of floating as shown sitting above the thread line in the photo not really doing anything for friction but when the line from the reel unwinds it may ride a little higher in the assembly so this sercondary washer could come in handy to keep the thread from slipping off the little post it rides on just before sliding under this seconndary tippmann tensioner. I hope this makes sense. Again I want to state I dont really even know how this machine works, but this tension hack seems to help. Still in the learning process of how to get this little machine to work in a repeatable fashion. The machine has only done 50 stitches or so since this modification so I will update further after I get my 207 thread and smaller needles, I may be getting ahead of my skis on this at this point but mostly sharing to see what the forum thinks and not so much telling others to try this. Edited September 23 by waynebergman typo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waynebergman Report post Posted September 23 (edited) Happy with this machine now, not super keen on how the locking back stitch looks with the heavy thread, I am used to a cleaner look that I get from the hand saddle stitching but for now I think the stitcher is dialed in for tension etc. Edited September 24 by waynebergman typo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bruce johnson Report post Posted September 24 Wayne - The back side stitch in a closed eye machine will almost never look as clean as the top side straight out of the machine. That is yet another reason they make overstitchers. Bringing back a picture I did several years ago here for the forum. In the example below, the double layer was sewn on my 1245. The left side is the bottom stitch immediately after sewing. The right side is the same, but has been rolled with an overstitcher that matches the stitch length. That sets the stitches, and rounds them up by pushing down into the needle holes. The production stuff didn't get rolled much but once I got past that - if it was the back stitch was visible and my name was on it then it was rolled. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AlZilla Report post Posted September 24 10 hours ago, bruce johnson said: Wayne - The back side stitch in a closed eye machine will almost never look as clean as the top side straight out of the machine. That is yet another reason they make overstitchers. Bringing back a picture I did several years ago here for the forum. In the example below, the double layer was sewn on my 1245. The left side is the bottom stitch immediately after sewing. The right side is the same, but has been rolled with an overstitcher that matches the stitch length. That sets the stitches, and rounds them up by pushing down into the needle holes. The production stuff didn't get rolled much but once I got past that - if it was the back stitch was visible and my name was on it then it was rolled. Wow. I didn't know such a thing existed. Definitely one of the best kept secrets in leatherworking. Thank you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fredk Report post Posted September 24 52 minutes ago, AlZilla said: Wow. I didn't know such a thing existed. Definitely one of the best kept secrets in leatherworking. Hardly a 'best kept secret' but an under-used tool. Most of us have several in our tool drawers but rarely use them Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herbie Report post Posted September 24 12 hours ago, bruce johnson said: Wayne - The back side stitch in a closed eye machine will almost never look as clean as the top side straight out of the machine. That is yet another reason they make overstitchers. Bringing back a picture I did several years ago here for the forum. In the example below, the double layer was sewn on my 1245. The left side is the bottom stitch immediately after sewing. The right side is the same, but has been rolled with an overstitcher that matches the stitch length. That sets the stitches, and rounds them up by pushing down into the needle holes. The production stuff didn't get rolled much but once I got past that - if it was the back stitch was visible and my name was on it then it was rolled. This is an incredible difference! Would never have guessed rolling would be this effective. Thank you for the tip! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AlZilla Report post Posted September 25 9 hours ago, fredk said: Hardly a 'best kept secret' but an under-used tool. Most of us have several in our tool drawers but rarely use them Well, not a best kept secret any more. That Bruce guy went and blabbed ... Never heard of it before now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dwight Report post Posted September 25 That was always a problem with me and and my holsters . . . I had to sometimes stitch one piece of the holster . . . stop . . . turn it over . . . and stitch another piece . . . so when it was done, the stitching ALL looked right from the "used" point of view. Guess I'll try this next time . . . after I finish getting my 4500 settled on 6 stitches per inch. I don't know how it happened . . . but somehow it got to where it was doing almost 9 . . . and I had not done any adjustments. I ruined a belt I made for a young lady from Hungary . . . had to make her a second one . . . Thanks Bruce for another bona fide "tip" that helps out. May God bless, Dwight Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
badhatter1005 Report post Posted September 25 Finally enough I use my over stitcher to mark stitching holes if I'm going to do manual stuff without a pricking iron. I actually do have several in my drawer of different sizes. Now I know what it's actually for I'll try it and see how it works. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dikman Report post Posted September 25 That is an interesting idea, using a fishing reel to control the tension. Could be more difficult to set up (and look funny) but a large baitcaster reel should work well, they generally have very good drag systems. If I had a Tippman Boss I would do it, just 'cos...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waynebergman Report post Posted September 26 Thanks Alzila for the info on the "back side stitch". Its good to know the look of the back side can be helped like this. My main issue with how the machine stitching looks with this thicker thread is the "Back Stitching" to lock the stitch, not so much the back SIDE of the project. I am hoping the thinner thread 207 and the smaller needles will help with the bulkyness of the appearance gives for the needed back stitching. I feel my hand stitching is looking like I want but for the projects I tend to work on but I still want to clean up the look of the back stitch that my machine gives before using it on anything other than testing. Thanks again Alzila, if I stay with this machine and I dont go back to hand stitching I will get the tool you recomend to clean up the back side of the project.........wayne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waynebergman Report post Posted October 2 (edited) My Groz-Beckert 794 160/23 LR point needles arrived today and if gives the stitch I was looking and hoping for with the 207 bonded nylon thread. Shown on the test strap of nat veg tan 2.4mm with a pre dyed black kip at .8mm glued to its back side. The saddle tan dye side is the top side of my stitch and the black, the back side. I experimented with lock stitching with the boss at the top right and on the top left I lock stitched by using my hand stitching needles to give a final saddle stitch treatment for the last two stitches to lock in the stitching. Not sure if the hand stitch locking is worth the effort but perhaps a little cleaner looking....... Question please - is it needed to burn the thread after trimming after the lock stitch? Any other tips appreciated for the lock stitching as the maching stitiching process is new to me. Overall I am happy with this boss tippmann, it will speed things up a lot for some projects but perhaps not used on everything I try. ......edit, my phots wont upload so not sure why, i have re resed them down to 1/2 mg each but no joy. I can try again perhaps another day........wayne Edited October 2 by waynebergman pics did not attach Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
