It's ruined badly

[TomSwede]

This is something new to me. Never seen anything like it. After tooling I stained richly with Tandys antique leather stain saddletan, let it sit for about 7-10 minutes (the leather was a bit moist when antiquing was applied) and then wiped access off with a soft cloth from a bedsheet wrapped around a creditcard. Funny thing is that it felt like it's been sitting for too long because i had to work quite hard to get it off in some areas. After this I formed the shape and let it dry over night. Following day I applied 3 coats of Fiebings saddle lac (acrylic spray) to the dryformed leather and let it sit til next day and look now on the pics what it looks like. It's ruined badly.

The girl I gave to told me that her little brother dropped it into water and it layed there for approx 5 mins and then the wiped it with a towel. This was yesterday and it's morning now and the leather still has that cold feeling of moisture to it. The kids went with school to the bathhouse yesterday so I think it might actually been in that chlorine water for a couple of hours but that doesnt matter. One of my pilot bracers (test bench that's been worn almost every day for two years) has suffered all things thinkable and has only lost the gloss of sealer but the sealer is still noticeable. Some sort of cracking effect is showing from being bending back and forth many times but closer inspection doesn't present any signs of real cracks. It has been in swimmingpools aswell.

Pilot bracer was made from new fresh leather, this bad one from scraps that's been laying about for 3-4 years. Pilotbracers sealer was another kind of acrylic spray (dont remember the brand) and Tandys dark brown antique stain. Apart from that the making process is similar.

That's why I have a pilot, it's supposed to be bombproof. Could there be a huge difference between the two stains?, saddletan for sure is a lot richer and oilier to the feel of it, thus preventing the sealer bond properly with the leather?

Bah, I'm so disapponted right now. Made some 45-55 bracers for others and never a complaint so far and this one was handed over 6 days ago.

It looks though upon closer inspection that the sealer may have been coming of in flakes and pulled the antique off with it.

Any ideas as to why this has occured is very welcome. I will make a testpiece in a replicated process and use as testbench aswell further improving my knowledge and hopefully getting that bombproof technique that sometimes is needed (like items for children for example;-)

I also have a newly bought bottle of Tandys super shene and wonder if that could have any advantages over the acrylic spray in a situation like this?

So drop your thoughts and ideas over this please cuz it feels really bad when you try to make the kids happy and then it becomes just a mess out of it.

This link shows the bracer during making and finished with sealer:

http://www.leatherworker.net/forum/index.p...amp;#entry18524

Thanks!

Edited December 12, 2007 by TomSwede

[Randy Cornelius]

I am not too sure on this one. Some of the things you say may be typo's but I will tell you how I do a project such as yours.

First I will stain the leather with Feblings Oil Dye. That is all I use. I have tried the others and for consistant results I will use nothing else. Let the stain dry for a couple hours to overnight.

Next apply 2 coats of Neat Lack, several minutes apart. You said you used Saddle Lac, I think they are the same product. Make sure you let this dry completly.

Next I use Feblings Antique Paste. Apply a with a piece of sheeps skin and rub into all areas. Let set for several minutes and then use a cotten cloth and wipe away excess. Let this dry for several hours and then come back with another coat of Neat Lack.

I think you left too much of the antique stain on the project by wiping with a credit card it may have left too much and it cracked and fell out. Also you should have sealed the back side with something or with the saddle lack being you were using it. I think the water soaked in from the back side.

I know I did not have a diffent answer to you problem but I hope I helped some.

Randy

[TomSwede]

Thanks for your quick reply Randy!

I cleared my head a bit after the post and tried to make a more rational analysis and I also came to the conclusion that theres error in the stain application/removal part. Probably should have waited for the leather to dry completely since water and oil don't mix well (and this tan is RICH), so as you say there probably were to much stain left and if the water stopped it from sinking into the leather there will not be any bond either. That seems to be at least a first step in the wrong direction. Hope I get mening of this through cuz I'm really tired from working the nightshift.

I have never applied sealer from the back and thats because I'm afraid it can cause allergy maybe? but also I feel that it might not allow enough air for the human skin to breath properly. I know guys that use my biggest bracermodels literally around the clock but anyways, no sealer on the back has (so far) not been any problem.

I lik to try your method with the antique paste, Fiebings oil dyes seems to be quite nice. Using them sometimes. The previous lac I had might have been neat lac, just don't remember the name but it was a white and blue spraycan with lots of warnings about cancer on labrats and stuff.

Thanks for your help and wisdom. It is treasured!

PS, sorry about any typos, but my English is very rusty nowadays.

Edited December 12, 2007 by TomSwede

[Art]

Hi Tom,

If you seal the back with something water resistant and breathable like Pecard's or even Gum Tragacanth it will be better than nothing. Bag Kote and Tan Kote breath also. If you are worried about allergic reaction, then Gum Trag is a good bet as that stuff is as close to food grade as any leather products get. Personally, I have been a Pecard's freak for years, no allergy problems there either. It doesn't buff up to a dazzling shine like others, but it does the job as far as protection goes. On holsters and knife sheaths, I always treat the insides with Bag Kote or something even if it has a pasted finish from the tanner. I just don't like to leave things unfinished, even if you can't see them.

Art

[Go2Tex]

Well, this has probably been hashed over a hundred times on this forum but, what the heck?.... what else do I have to do today? So, this is how I'm doing the process.

First I carve, let dry completely, as in, over night. Then oil and let dry completely, as in 1-2 DAYS. Then I try to antique.

First I hit the highlights, (high, untouched areas), with an acrylic resist. I've tried Tan-kote but it doesn't seal as well if you want a lot of contrast. Let it dy completely if you have the patience, which I usually don't, but you should. Then I slap on the antique paste with a wool scrap. I guess you could use a spatula to put it on but then you need the wool to kinda work it into the deep recesses of the carving. I then use a paper towel folded over and flat and just wipe off the excess from the highlights and borders. Let it dry for a few minutes and then I use another piece of wool and give the whole project a wiping to further remove excess antigue. This will put some antique on your highlights which you then remove with a wet cloth or paper towel or sponge. The sponge works well because it holds the moisture and picks up the antigue but stays flat on the highlights and doesn't put a lot of water down in the carving.

The problem is, the antique paste must have wax in it, like shoe polish. After a while, it will turn chalky white and must be buffed. Well, this is not good for a carving. So, maybe one of the other products for dying the carving, something without wax and something more water-proof would be better for saddles or anything made for outside use.

Then, I just put Tan-kote over the project when it's good and dry. Maybe a spray application of saddle lac would be ok but I don't like the really shinny look. Looks like friggin' plastic.

Edited December 12, 2007 by Go2Tex

[TomSwede]

Hi Art!

Pecards I've been looking for but haven't found it in Sweden.

Gum traganth I think I might get a hold of and I'll check for the others aswell with my supplier.

But so many bracers produced without any backsealer and none have had problems like this I have to check for the initial error first so now I'll try to fix the original piece and have some testruns with it getting soaked and see if the stuff comes off again. I will test some with back sealer too cause it's not a bad idea at all.

Thanks for your help thoughts and input, treasusered as always.

Tom

[TomSwede]

Hi Tex!

Now you made me blush a bit because in the desperation I have actually completely forgotten to search forum on this before posting which is my normal procedure I just blame it on that darn nightshift work, it does clog the brain activity.

So, I think your info adds even more weight to the initial process of staining the leather so I keep my focus there right now.

I added the antique stain with a sponge and work/rub it down into cavitys then it sat for 7-10 minutes before wiping off. I think this may have caused the oil to harden on top of the leather, wich was not completely dry, without the needed penetration allowing it to crack and come off later.

About oiling the leather before staining I feel it works well with spirit dyes but been afraid it would repell antiques and cause problems like this but since you recommend this I 'm gonna try it with some fresh pieces aswell as try to restore the original one. If I have to make a new item for the girl then so be it.

Now I'm beginning to feel confidence in getting this problem worked out so thanks to you guys.

I'm sure glad I found my way here to all the nice information and above all, the very kind and helpful leatherworkers of this board.

Hugs from Sweden!

Edited December 12, 2007 by TomSwede

[Regis]

Tom,

Do not ignor the possibility that you did nothing wrong. The girl/boy could have inadvertantly got some chemical on it. Perhaps in the water or they tried to clean or who knows what??

Regis

[TomSwede]

Hi Regis!

You read my mind!

I was just thinking about making a post about this.

I was sitting on the toilet (were all the good thinking are done;-) and listening to the washingmachine and there are some signs showing the leather has been bent backwards (towards to the grainside). It has those wrinkles that I think can only come from that.

The girl also changed the story about what happened. This morning she said her little brother dropped into water yesterday but now she lets me know that she had it in the bathtub TWO days ago. I could feel this morning that it was not completely dry so hm, anyways that washingmachine made me wonder, it is a possibilty that maybe it took a turn there and what if you then let it take a spin in a tumbledryer, he he that is mean stuff for leather I think.

Now this is just speculation but I do have a feeling I have not gotten all the info from her.

I try to make the bracers ready for just about anything you do i normal day activities so I have to look inte the aspects of this anyways.

Thanks for your support Regis, I appreciate it!

Tom

PS I have just cleaned it with spiritbased liquid (don't know any english word for it) and absolutely nothing of the remaining antiquing will get off but the sealer seem to have gone. Oiled it up now and will let it sit for two days then try with antiquing again.

Edited December 12, 2007 by TomSwede

[TomSwede]

Hey Tex!

Just saw the last part on your post.

I know what you mean about friggin plastic. I always been quite ambivalent about this myself but the customers specifically ask for this finish because it gives another look than the leather on their shoe, jacket or whatever their frame of preference is. I've never marketed myself so the spreading word is what have drawn new customers and apperantly this surface treatment is in high demand.

I just bought a small bottle of supersheene and will have a go with that.

I'm not really happy with Fiebings saddle lac because it's harder go get a god and even coat than the can I had previous and also looks a little bit more plastic aswell I think.

But it's like this when I do things, I try to change only one component or procedure at the time to really see what has made an impact of the outcome. Dealing with leather is far more complex than one can imagine.

BUT WE ALL LOVE IT!

Edited December 12, 2007 by TomSwede