need to find a reliable leather source

[esantoro]

I'm reaching the point where I need to find a reliable leather source and purchase 20 sides of leather (especially the next time Siegels has one of those crazy sales) I really like and then spend time cutting it all up into parts for my briefcases. My question is does it pay to have someone else do the cutting for you or should you do it yourself? Also, would it be best to cut all briefcase parts from the same hide or dedicate some hides for straps, gussets, and buckle assemblies, others for large rectangualr pieces?

Something tells me it will be more efficient to dedicate certain sides for certain parts of my briefcases. This might be more time efficient and economical as well, as I'll have a more straightforward method for getting parts cut and ready for assembly.

Once I find sides I can really commit to, I'll buy 20 sides, cut up 10 sides into my main parts, and then start cutting into the rest for the other parts. Currently I'm spending too much time cutting indiviudal 26" straps for individual bags when I could simply cutting up the entire length of one side into straps.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Ed

[AKRob]

I use one hide for all my strap cutting. It saves time and is the best use of the leather.

I would not pay someone else to cut my leather, rather I would look at a clicker and knives. That being said, I have hired folks to do piece work for me, It frees up my time for sales and marketing.

Maybe you can share a clicker or use a nearby leather crafter's clicker?

All Then Best,

Rob

[esantoro]

I use one hide for all my strap cutting. It saves time and is the best use of the leather.

I would not pay someone else to cut my leather, rather I would look at a clicker and knives. That being said, I have hired folks to do piece work for me, It frees up my time for sales and marketing.

Maybe you can share a clicker or use a nearby leather crafter's clicker?

All Then Best,

Rob

thanks Rob. It's so nice to get feedback on such issues. I also don't want to trust anyone to cut up my leather. I thnk I will have to start using hides dedicated for certain parts. It seems to make the most sense and cents all the way around. Last night I was thinking that one hide could be used for all straps and 36" x 6" or 4" gussets.

Perhaps one reason I haven't done this yet is that my production has been small to where I'm buying only a couple sides at a time. One side for one bag and the scraps used for other things that come up. I really need to find a source I can commit to for 10 or mnore sides at good prices.

How do clickers work? I imagine they would not be used for straps but larger blockish type pieces.

Thanks again, Rob. I'm now more certain in this one area.

Ed

[Johanna]

Clickers are big presses that use dies (think cookie cutters) to stamp out shapes in hides. Tandy kit parts and "practice pieces" are done on clickers. A clicker can be small or large, and while it's not a cheap investment, if you do production work, they can pay off because they can save you time.

Johanna

[BruceGibson]

If you're planning to buy 20-sides, I'd recommend going directly to Hermann Oak. I believe they have a 10-side minimum, and 20 would certainly meet that...twice. I think you'd get a real break on your pricing.

[K-Man]

Clickers and dies are a huge timesaver. I've got two clickers - a 7-ton and a 15-ton, both from Tippmann. I use a number of different dies for holsters, knife sheaths, belt ends, rifle slings, and some other things. For example, it would take me approximately 35-45 minutes to trace and cut out a cowboy style of holster. With the clicker and the die, it's cut down to less than 3. While they are pricey: ~ $1500 for the 7-ton; ~ $3000 for the 15-ton; they've been paid for many times over in my business.

Another consideration in getting a clicker is the weight of it and where you're going to put it. They're exceptionally heavy and wherever you set it will most likely be the place it remains. The 7-ton weighs about 250 lbs, the 15-ton weighs nearly 600 lbs. I bought the table offered by Tippmann for the 15-ton and made my own for the 7-ton.

The flip side of using the clicker is getting the dies made. I have Tippmann make the dies for me. Their prices and turnaround time leaves everyone else in the dust IMO. Their dies have proven to be exceptional in their durability and maintaining a sharp edge. I've got a couple of dies that I would estimate I've cut out 1400-1500 holsters with and the edge is still sharp.

[esantoro]

If you're planning to buy 20-sides, I'd recommend going directly to Hermann Oak. I believe they have a 10-side minimum, and 20 would certainly meet that...twice. I think you'd get a real break on your pricing.

Is it possible to get a manual hand-pressed die, where if the cut isn't as complete as from a hydraulic press you could easily go around the edges with a knife?

I just checked out a die making company of Ebay and asked what they would charge to make a 15.5" by 11" cutting die. Eveything else I need can be cut with a strap cutter. Is $85 a good price to have a die custom made? Do these dies last a long time and allow you to keep sharpening them.

The company is also selling something that allows you to make a die yourself, but I'm not sure what kind of additional equipment is needed.

****

STEEL RULE DIE CUTTING BLADE KNIVES NEW CLICKER PRESS

This Auction is for 5 strips of 2pt .937 (15/16") high center bevel rule.

Each strip is 30 inches long= 12 1/2 feet of brand new die cutting rule.

Need to fix a die during a run or wish to create a new die yourself? This is the rule we use ourselves in our custom dies.

It is professional grade rule and tempered to accept bends made with proper bending equipment.

Please note die rule is extremely sharp by nature and should be treated with respect when handling!

***

I really like Rob's idea of finding someone who will let me use his die or at least charge a fair usage charge, as long as I bring my own dies.

Ed

[K-Man]

Ed:

While the steel may be tempered, it still may not be that easy to bend. If your dies have sharp turns, you're putting even that much more stress on the steel. "Proper bending equipment" can be open for interpretation.... If I understand it correctly, once the "die" is made, you then have to set it into a corresponding piece of wood. Sounds like too much work in comparison to paying for a die to be made IMO. Not saying that it's not worth considering doing it yourself, just would suggest evaluating all that goes into making the die and whether you desire to do that.

Most die making companies charge by the linear inch. There are a lot of good die making companies available to you.

I, too, think it's a good idea if you can find someone local to you that has a clicker that you can use to cut out your leather. I've offered it to some of the local leathercrafters where I'm at. I use my clicker every day, but it's not going all of the time. The only issue you might run into is insurance coverage if you happen to hurt yourself while operating the machine. Some shops may have you sign a waiver of liability before they let you use the machine.

[esantoro]

Clickers and dies are a huge timesaver. I've got two clickers - a 7-ton and a 15-ton, both from Tippmann. I use a number of different dies for holsters, knife sheaths, belt ends, rifle slings, and some other things. For example, it would take me approximately 35-45 minutes to trace and cut out a cowboy style of holster. With the clicker and the die, it's cut down to less than 3. While they are pricey: ~ $1500 for the 7-ton; ~ $3000 for the 15-ton; they've been paid for many times over in my business.

Another consideration in getting a clicker is the weight of it and where you're going to put it. They're exceptionally heavy and wherever you set it will most likely be the place it remains. The 7-ton weighs about 250 lbs, the 15-ton weighs nearly 600 lbs. I bought the table offered by Tippmann for the 15-ton and made my own for the 7-ton.

The flip side of using the clicker is getting the dies made. I have Tippmann make the dies for me. Their prices and turnaround time leaves everyone else in the dust IMO. Their dies have proven to be exceptional in their durability and maintaining a sharp edge. I've got a couple of dies that I would estimate I've cut out 1400-1500 holsters with and the edge is still sharp.

K-Man,

I'm starting to think seriously about the 15-ton tippmann clicker. I'll probably first order the dies I need and see if I can rent time at a local shop. Is it possible to use the Tippmann dies by hand and then cut out the pieces completely with a knife? That would still be a time saver.

I've emailed Tippmann to get a ballpark figure on the cost for the dies. To start me off, I need a die that's 16" x 12" and one that's 8" x 20." Do know of a place that makes hand clickers?

How loud is the Tippmann 1500 and the air compressor that has to be used with it?

Thanks for the help,

Ed

Edited June 10, 2007 by esantoro

[barra]

http://lucris.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1

A possible low cost alternative to hydraulic clickers for small to medium production. There is a US distributor link somewhere on this site. I agree that it is an alternative to get knives made and rent the use of someone elses until your production warrants you buying one yourself.

Barra

[esantoro]

http://lucris.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1

A possible low cost alternative to hydraulic clickers for small to medium production. There is a US distributor link somewhere on this site. I agree that it is an alternative to get knives made and rent the use of someone elses until your production warrants you buying one yourself.

Barra

Thanks for the link, Barra. I was looking at the Lucris clicker. They seem to go for about $900 new. I'm going to look around for a used Tippmann 1500. Maybe I can pick one up for $2000.

I was thnking. In addition to the 16" x 12" faces I need for my briefcase, I also need 16" x 12.5" suede lining for each face. Is it possible to hang a clicker .5" over the cutting edge of the press and have only three sides cut? Then I could do the last side manually and add the .5" extra i need to roll under the edge of the face. This would allow me to get two slightly different cuts from the same clicker die.

Ed

[K-Man]

Ed:

Sent you an email. With respect to the noise level of the 15-ton clicker and air compressor, it will mostly depend on the air compressor you get. I recently had to purchase a new air compressor, and doubled the size of what I previously had. When the compressor is running, I sometimes cannot hear the phone ringing. My shop is 1000 sq feet, with essentially metal walls. The compressor does not run for very long - usually just for a minute while it rebuilds its air pressure.

I would guess that the price for the basic four-sided dies like you describe will be relatively inexpensive at Tippmann (compared to other die makers). The price generally increases when you start putting bends and angles into the design. I'm getting ready to order some more dies myself.

With respect to hanging the one die over the edge for the larger piece of suede, you can do that. However, I think you'll eventually find that it would be easier (and ultimately more cost effective) to order a die that's the size you need.

[Art]

Hi Ed,

For Dies, try Heather Kinnick at Texas Custom Dies. Good Job, Fast, Reasonable price (will beat Tippman and Weaver usually). 888-755-9025.

Art

Ed:

Sent you an email. With respect to the noise level of the 15-ton clicker and air compressor, it will mostly depend on the air compressor you get. I recently had to purchase a new air compressor, and doubled the size of what I previously had. When the compressor is running, I sometimes cannot hear the phone ringing. My shop is 1000 sq feet, with essentially metal walls. The compressor does not run for very long - usually just for a minute while it rebuilds its air pressure.

I would guess that the price for the basic four-sided dies like you describe will be relatively inexpensive at Tippmann (compared to other die makers). The price generally increases when you start putting bends and angles into the design. I'm getting ready to order some more dies myself.

With respect to hanging the one die over the edge for the larger piece of suede, you can do that. However, I think you'll eventually find that it would be easier (and ultimately more cost effective) to order a die that's the size you need.

[esantoro]

Hi Ed,

For Dies, try Heather Kinnick at Texas Custom Dies. Good Job, Fast, Reasonable price (will beat Tippman and Weaver usually). 888-755-9025.

Art

I'm closer to purchasing a die. But I was wondering: It still may be some time before I buy a clicker or even find one to rent time on.

Have you ever heard of anyone using a a 16" x 12" clicker manually, say, by putting two-by-fours across and using a mallet to cut out the pieces. Even if the piece does not cut out entirely, it may not be difficult tofinish cuting out with a knife.

Would this procedure damage the die? Are there dies made just for this sort of thing?

Ed

[Art]

Hi Ed,

You will ruin a set of ruler dies that way, I have seen mallet dies that are made to do that although none that size. They hare quite robust and have a striking handle welded to the top of the die.

Art

I'm closer to purchasing a die. But I was wondering: It still may be some time before I buy a clicker or even find one to rent time on.

Have you ever heard of anyone using a a 16" x 12" clicker manually, say, by putting two-by-fours across and using a mallet to cut out the pieces. Even if the piece does not cut out entirely, it may not be difficult tofinish cuting out with a knife.

Would this procedure damage the die? Are there dies made just for this sort of thing?

Ed

[Cowboy Crafts Online]

esantoro,

I do not know where your from, but there is a place just down in Saint Joseph MO that carries alot of leather and does custom clicking. I buy alot of chaps sides from them. I can look up their phone number if your serious about having some one click out items for you. They are some real nice folks that run the biz. some of their clients are Ping golf, stetson Hats, Barstow rodeo gear. I dont know thier prices but I think they could help you out. They might even have clicker dies made up for the sizes that you need.

Ashley

[esantoro]

esantoro,

I do not know where your from, but there is a place just down in Saint Joseph MO that carries alot of leather and does custom clicking. I buy alot of chaps sides from them. I can look up their phone number if your serious about having some one click out items for you. They are some real nice folks that run the biz. some of their clients are Ping golf, stetson Hats, Barstow rodeo gear. I dont know thier prices but I think they could help you out. They might even have clicker dies made up for the sizes that you need.

Ashley

Ashley,

I'm in Brooklyn, NY, and would love to get the number of this company to check their pricing.

Thanks,

Ed

[Peter Ellis]

Hi Ed.

An option to consider on the die cutting front is instead of a clicker (even the manual versions run about a thousand dollars) use a shop press http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Disp...temnumber=33497 . One needs to add plates for supporting the work and driving the dies, and it's not as fast as a clicker.

OTOH, you can get the shop press set up ready to use for die cutting leather for under $200. Money saved can go into more dies. Then, as your production speeds up, demand increases - you can afford to buy the higher speed clicker and you have the dies already.

Peter