Singer 45k problem

[Bosko90]

I don't know why my topic disappeared, so I'm writing again. So my problem is:

I got realy niece singer 45k5. When I try to sew, upper thread pull bottom one to the top. I know in most cases these is tension problem. But I have upper thread totaly loose, almost no resistance and bottom thread have so much tension that I realy hard to pull out by hand. After watching hook 100 times I saw, in the moment when needle go down, pull too much thread from bobbin. And when upper thread pull up the bottom one, there in absolutley no resistance on bottom thread because it have big loop, until the thread looks out from the top on the 2mm leather. So setting the lower tension has absolutely no effect whatsoever. I hope someone can help.

As Wizcrafts sugest, I check all thread lines and all is threaded correct. 

 

[Northmount]

24 minutes ago, Bosko90 said:

I don't know why my topic disappeared

The site switched to a new server, so some recent items were lost in the transfer.

[Wizcrafts]

@Bosko90

If you've checked the entire thread path and nothing is binding, but too much thread is being drawn around the bobbin, you can adjust the "check spring" so it provides less slack thread. One way is by moving the bottom stopper bracket down to make the spring hold the thread taut longer. Another way is to tighten the check spring's action by loosening a set screw and using a screwdriver blade to turn the shaft holding the spring in whichever direction tightens it. Then lock down the set screw.

[Constabulary]

what needle and thread size are you using? Some pictures or a video may help to figure the issue.

EDITED

Edited March 8 by Constabulary

[Bosko90]

@Wizcrafts

I loosened this spring, hoping it would help. so can I tighten it? I'll try. 

@Constabulary

I used thread 20 (138) and needle 160 LR (23). 

I'll take a picture or video if anything shows up.

When it goes counterclockwise (needle goes down) it pulls too much thread out of the bobbin. When it goes clockwise (needle goes up) the lower thread becomes loose and the upper thread easily pulls it so far that it peeks out at the top of the leather.

[Bosko90]

Sadly no effect when I tighten check sping.

[Bosko90]

Here needle is at the lowest point, uper thread is lose and check spring have no function at that moment. If, at the moment it starts to pull the thread up, I lightly press the lower thread, which is too much, with my finger, it makes a good stitch.

[Constabulary]

is the tension screw on the hook tension spring all the way in already (it should not)? Maybe the small tab that goes into the hook body on the lower end of the tension spring is broken off (Pic 1). The shown Adler hook is the same as the Singer and I´m using it in my Singer 45D.

Edited March 9 by Constabulary

[Bosko90]

Both are fine. I feel like it works properly, because I can adjust it from completely loose to so tight that I almost cut my fingers when I pull the thread. And on last time I trying to sew, I had it so tight, and  there was absolutely no effect on the stitch. As I said, the lower thread is somehow pulled out so far that when the upper thread lifts it, it goes up so far that it peeks over 2mm of leather. If I hold it down with my finger slightly by pressing it against the bobbin case at the moment the upper thread starts to pull, it makes a nice stitch.

[Constabulary]

okay looks fine to me. Can you post pictures of the machine maybe we can see what is wrong.

I cannot see the video. Upload it to YT and post a link here that always works best.

Edited March 9 by Constabulary

[Constabulary]

I have edited the pic a bit... ah... well... I´m not sure but is your bottom thread going trough the needle eye??? That would surprise me... But could just be the angle 🤔

 

Edited March 9 by Constabulary

[Bosko90]

Hmm through the eye? No, but it would be possible for the needle to go through the thread.

I have a friend who has an Adler 4-2, at the first opportunity, we will try it with his shuttlehook.

ok was uploaded to yt. 

And here are some photos. In the photo you can see the moment when the lower thread becomes very tight and the thread is pulled out of the bobbin. This is the moment when the needle is in the completely lower position.

At that time, the upper thread is completely relaxed and does not affect the lower one. In the second photo, the appearance of the upper thread at the same moment.

In the last picture we see how a slight loop is made on the lower thread. This is at the moment when the upper thread starts to pull upwards. It pulls until it uses up this excess thread. And this is at the moment when it already looks out of the 2mm leather. This way, the lower thread offers absolutely no resistance to pulling, no matter how tight the tension screw is. And as I mentioned before, if I lightly press this loop against the bobbin case with my finger to hold it in place, it makes a nice stitch.

[Constabulary]

I at least can see that here is a thread guide missing.

Have you cheeked the needle hook timing especially the needle bar height?

 

Edited March 9 by Constabulary

[Bosko90]

Ok, that's what's missing. But I don't think there should be any problems with that, or?
I didn't check the timing specifically because it's grab thread, and I don't even know the exact position for this machine, what it should be. There is one thing that is still wrong and I can't fix it, that's the only thing I suspect could be wrong. The hook goes too close to the needle and it slides on it. I recently got about 40 needles, all of which are worn down to the point where they have a bit of a flat surface on the side. The needle I'm trying with is new.

I tried to move the entire lower system, but it was unsuccessful, probably the corrosion was too strong.

[Bosko90]

One more video. Focus is little bad it is hard to have phone in one hand and spining machine.

 

 

[shoepatcher]

Loosen the lock screw on the spring and see if you can tighten the regular screw on the spring to increase the tension.  Spring is up and seems to be catching on the thread.

glenn

[Bosko90]

This one doesn't have a lock screw, but I know yes, some have it. I tightened it practically all the way and there's no difference. Do you mean this gap? Hmm, maybe the spring is really bended. That must be flush with housing? 

[shoepatcher]

yes the gap on the spring to the bobbin case.  spring should fit tighter.

glenn

[Bosko90]

@Constabulary

I have made thread guide

(For now is copper, but I will make from stainless)

 

@shoepatcher

I hope I can find new one. It would be niece if this caused problems. You are second person who notice these gap.

[Bosko90]

Hello. Some new information, but still no solution. I have a friend who owns an Adler machine that's almost identical. We swapped shuttle hooks. Mine fit into his machine with a bit more clearance. He slightly adjusted the spring into a more correct shape, and it worked well—it was stitching nicely. His shuttle hook fit into my machine a bit more tightly. It had very little clearance, which caused the lower thread to jam frequently. However, as far as I could test, my machine was able to sew 2mm thick material. When I put my shuttle hook back (the one with the adjusted spring, which worked fine on his Adler), it still doesn't work on my machine

 

 

 

 

 

[Tigweldor]

A whole new shuttle hook with bobbin costs small coin.

https://www.ebay.de/itm/365419392772?_

Get 10 new bobbins while you´re at it.

 

Greetings

Hans

Edited April 20 by Tigweldor

[Tigweldor]

Take a look at the routing of the top thread.

The last tensioning device does not clamp between two discs, rather the thread is wound around the wheel 1 1/2 times (important with that amount of turns)  before it encircles the metal dowel and then enters the take back spring.

That wheel is pressed by the spring pressure against a leather or felt washer.

If this soft washer is missing - wheel braking can not be adjusted properly - check that.

The take up spring has to work as well, to keep adequate tension on loose top thread - check that.

You may have to remove the wheel to check if the take up spring leg is in the proper location to produce adequate needed pressure.  You want that spring to be able to move freely under rather light pressure - not tight as hell - that defeats its`purpose. A fault often found due to an adjustment error.

Here are two pics from my Adler 4 and my Adler 5 - very close clones of the Singer 45K.

I usually use one size smaller than top thread for bottom thread - simply because I can get more "yards" onto the bobbin.

Actually a 160/23 needle is on the big side for TEX 20 Thread - better to use a 140/22 needle for that - especially if you are sewing fabric.

It is also nice to have quite a few bobbins ready to go - makes for a fast change if/when needed.

The bobbin holders are easy to make : drill under size holes in a piece of flat bar and press/hammer the cut to length round stock into place.

Takes no time at all if you use an aluminum flat bar and chamfer one end of the round stock on a grinder.

A wood pecker would of course use wood and proper length dowels - but I am into fabricating from metal - just personal preference cause I own a metal business.

 

 

Edited April 20 by Tigweldor
pics

[Bosko90]

Thank you for the detailed explanation and the attached photos! They’re always helpful. I think all of these things are set up the way you described, as I’ve gone through everything many times. That’s why it frustrates me even more — I really don’t know what else it could be. The shuttle hook isn’t that expensive, but I wanted to be sure it’s the actual issue before buying one, and whether this Chinese one would even be okay.
You mentioned the take-up spring. It seems quite strong to me, but it’s originally much stiffer than what we’re used to with other sewing machines. I tried to loosen it as much as possible. The only thing I’m not sure about is the correct setting for its height (or how long its range of motion should be).

 

 

[Tigweldor]

well, a real simple experiment would be to just run a thicker thread on your bobbin.

I all goes well then - you know that it is your bobbin holder tension spring that can not handle thinner string in its`present set up.

You can then take out the whole hook assembly, take out the little screw on the spring to remove and flatten latter out, so that the gap between it and the bobbin holder is diminished to nigh on zero.

 

 

Edited April 22 by Tigweldor

[Bosko90]

I can try it with a thicker one. But I can confirm that it can be adjusted so tight that I almost can't pull the thread out with my hand.