where to buy 9/10 oz double shoulders?

[bcj]

I'm new to holster making and leather work in general. I have been buying 9/10 oz double shoulders. I have gotten nice ones from Zack White's in the past, listed as #1 domestic, but they say they are unavailable now. The ones they have now are called premium imported with clean pasted backs. Has anyone used these? I have also used the Tandy #1 live oak, but the ones I've seen lately have very "nappy" backs. I emailed Hidecrafters and they told me they no longer sell double shoulders because there aren't any amercan tanneries producing them and the imports are poor quality. They also saide they didn't recommend the Tandy shoulders. If anyone has used the Zack Whites, or the tandy please let me know how they worked, or if you can recommend something else please let me know. Thanks so much.

[Art]

Double shoulders from Siegel are very good for the price. They are on sale now.

http://www.siegelofca.com/itemdetail.asp?prodid=1095

I don't have any of their 9oz but I have made holsters from their 5/6oz and 6/7oz double and stitched. The shoulders I have take dye well and are pretty clean. I don't know the lineage of these hides, but Siegel will tell you if you ask. I've never had to send leather back to them, but you can if you are not satisfied. I did have a problem with a tool once and it was replaced very quickly.

I think it is important that you contact them by phone to order. You can tell them exactly what you want and if they don't have it they can suggest something similar or even more appropriate for the job. Before Tandy closed it's stores in the late 90s I ran across some calf that was the best I had ever seen, so I bought all they had which was five or six skins and a lot for me at the time. I used it mostly for cartridge loops and could never ever get that quality from Tandy (or anyone else for that matter) ever again. I mentioned to the order lady at Siegel that I needed something like that and what I needed it for and she found one of the more experienced people to talk to me. I related everything I was looking for to the new person who actually seemed to know leatherwork. Long story short I bought English Kip and tried it. It works much the same as the calf and is about the same price. You don't get that kind of service ordering over the Internet.

Art

I'm new to holster making and leather work in general. I have been buying 9/10 oz double shoulders. I have gotten nice ones from Zack White's in the past, listed as #1 domestic, but they say they are unavailable now. The ones they have now are called premium imported with clean pasted backs. Has anyone used these? I have also used the Tandy #1 live oak, but the ones I've seen lately have very "nappy" backs. I emailed Hidecrafters and they told me they no longer sell double shoulders because there aren't any amercan tanneries producing them and the imports are poor quality. They also saide they didn't recommend the Tandy shoulders. If anyone has used the Zack Whites, or the tandy please let me know how they worked, or if you can recommend something else please let me know. Thanks so much.

[Johanna]

If I were making holsters, I would be buying sides. I would cut belts and straps from the back edge, and holster patterns interlaced everywhere else on the hide. Holster parts can be wiggled around a side with a flaw or two, and interesting brands can sometimes be incorporated into the design. I am not sure making holsters justify the extra $ per sq. ft. for a "clean" double shoulder. It should be noted that I am cheap, too.

Johanna

[bcj]

Thanks Art and Johanna. I appreciate your time and help.

[K-Man]

While I'm sure there are others here with greater experience, my research has shown that most of the top makers in the holster making industry use the backs (cut from the sides). You can buy them direct from Hermann Oak (the most commonly used leather by the holster makers) if you're looking for a quantity. You can also buy the backs from other sources if you're looking for one or two pieces. They generally range in size from 16-20 sq feet. A grade "A" back will bring you a piece that has very little waste from it. You can get a fair amount from a grade "B" as well, depending on how picky you are with respect to marks on the grain side and how nappy the flesh side is. If you're lining the holsters, then you could most likely use those areas that have a fuzzier flesh side, provided they're clean enough on the grain side.

Edited March 6, 2007 by K-Man

[Billsotx]

I'd ask the Zack White people for a sample and see if you can tell about the quality from that if you want dbl. shoulders, but Johanna is right on the side being the better choice, especially if you're going to make gun belts. Cut your belts long wise with the back and your holsters and support accoutrement from the rest. Some suppliers will remove the belly, but I get the whole side. The belly is good for practice carving if nothing else. I have a personal holster that I made from the belly and the comments are always something to the effect - "How many miles you got on that thing." Like Jo said, scars, brands, sag can make for an interesting piece. The attach rig is what some call pasted leather; others call it gummed. It's hard on blades, but it wears well. The client supplied the buckle; it's by Montana Silversmiths as I recall.

[whinewine]

Years ago (30+), I used to purchase curried double shoulders from Howe's Tannery in Curwensville, PA for $1.75/sq. ft & I would go there & select my own shoulders. It certainly was an experience, as the smells one encountered inside were out of this world (no, not heavenly, quite the opposite...) They went out of business there, but Wickett & Craig are now in the same town. I haven't been up there yet, but I plan to at some point. Tandy's prices were, at that time, about twice, perhaps triple for comparable leather, and perhaps somewhat easier to carve than Howes, but, for the price, I went with Howes. Since Tandy closed their stores, their current quality doesn't seem to be anywhere of that avalable years ago, btw.

Edited March 6, 2007 by whinewine

[Art]

With Hermann Oak (HO), you can get backs for about a dollar more a foot which about evens out if you don't have a use for the bellies. I double and stitch (D&S) most of my holster and gunbelt work so the flesh side (FS) is not that important, but if you are using single piece construction the FS is important and HO can help there by either sanding/buffing the FS or doing a "Moss Back" finish which is a pasted FS. This runs about $.35 a foot or so and is great for holsters. Moss back is also great for dress and duty belts that you don't want to DS. Their bridle is also very good for all kinds of belts and bondage gear. You generally don't need the moss back for the bridle. The down side of HO is the 10 side minimum which turns most hobbiests off. The up side to HO is the quality and consistency. Additionally, their dyeing process strikes pretty much through the leather and is quite fast, even in black.

Art

While I'm sure there are others here with greater experience, my research has shown that most of the top makers in the holster making industry use the backs (cut from the sides). You can buy them direct from Hermann Oak (the most commonly used leather by the holster makers) if you're looking for a quantity. You can also buy the backs from other sources if you're looking for one or two pieces. They generally range in size from 16-20 sq feet. A grade "A" back will bring you a piece that has very little waste from it. You can get a fair amount from a grade "B" as well, depending on how picky you are with respect to marks on the grain side and how nappy the flesh side is. If you're lining the holsters, then you could most likely use those areas that have a fuzzier flesh side, provided they're clean enough on the grain side.

[bcj]

Thanks everyone for your advise. I think I will buy a side when I run out of the leather I have. 10 sides are a bit much for me right now. I fold over an sew the belt loop to the back of the holster. This is where a rough looking flesh looks cheap to me. I have used gum tragacanth to smooth this area and it looks pretty good, but I don't know how it will look with lots of use.