help choosing first leather sewing machine

[TakashiOkada]

I've been researching a lot on which sewing machine to buy and I came to the conclusion that my first machine has to be a cylinder arm machine if I want the closest thing to a sewing machine that does it all (since I can only afford one atm). I've been watching videos and lurking this forum and reddit but still unsure since some people warn against getting a 335 model for leatherwork, but then again you mostly talk about sewing thicker veg tan leather. all I'm going to sew is thin to medium thickness chrome tan leather bags, briefcases, wallets and accessories with it.

I went to the sewing machine store and they only have these two:

 

typical tw3-p335vb is about 1.500 us$ converting from my local currency. 650w servo motor is 100$ more. the non-binding needle plate and feed dog is an extra 30$

this one is for binding but I've seen some people use it for leather too

user manual: https://www.supsew.com/download/typical/Typical TW3-P335 Parts and Instruction Manual.pdf

 

 

typical tw3-18bl (about 2.300 us$) 650w servo is 100$ more.

this one is a proper machine made for leather. idk if it's gonna be able to handle thin leather though. 

user manual https://www.supsew.com/download/typical/Typical TW3-18BL-28BL.pdf

 

the difference in price is huge for me, in fact the typical tw3-18bl is a bit over my budget but if you guys tell me it's the right tool for the job I'm willing to save up a little more to get it. 

 

 

Edited July 3 by TakashiOkada

[DieselTech]

What kinda leather projects will you be wanting to sew? 

[TakashiOkada]

4 minutes ago, DieselTech said:

What kinda leather projects will you be wanting to sew? 

thin to medium thickness chrome tan leather bags, purses, briefcases, wallets and accessories

[Digit]

44 minutes ago, TakashiOkada said:

thin to medium thickness chrome tan leather bags, purses, briefcases, wallets and accessories

That's exactly what we're doing at school and for that you need a cylinder arm triple transport machine.

We use Global WF1335 machines at school and I bought a second hand Adler 69. Both have a pretty basic triple transport system (bottom transport is just a back-and-forth moving plate) but they're up to the job so far.

[RockyAussie]

I believe that neither of those machines would be ideal for the work you are wanting to do. Check out this video I did awhile ago as it will point out some of the features for you to consider. I do not know what machines you have there in your world but a google search for a 246 cylinder arm machine should bring up a few to pick from. Note that they are generally not very expensive normally. 

 

[TakashiOkada]

1 hour ago, Digit said:

That's exactly what we're doing at school and for that you need a cylinder arm triple transport machine.

We use Global WF1335 machines at school and I bought a second hand Adler 69. Both have a pretty basic triple transport system (bottom transport is just a back-and-forth moving plate) but they're up to the job so far.

that's good to hear (or read in this case). thank you! 

 

34 minutes ago, RockyAussie said:

I believe that neither of those machines would be ideal for the work you are wanting to do. Check out this video I did awhile ago as it will point out some of the features for you to consider. I do not know what machines you have there in your world but a google search for a 246 cylinder arm machine should bring up a few to pick from. Note that they are generally not very expensive normally. 

 

ohh yeah I've seen that video before, it's a beautiful machine and I would love to get one but sadly they don't sell it over here. I only have those two typical machines available to purchase

Edited July 3 by TakashiOkada

[Digit]

That Typical TW3-P335 looks exactly like the Global WF1335. Probably from the same OEM factory but differently branded. It's a good basic machine to get started on. Be sure to have it on a removable table so that you have room to manipulate larger work underneath the arm.
Depending on which leather you'd want to stitch, have some spare feet at the ready without knurls/teeth that might leave patterns on your leather (or simply put some tape over the knurls, that's what I do).

47 minutes ago, RockyAussie said:

I believe that neither of those machines would be ideal for the work you are wanting to do.

I never mentioned ideal. You need some starting point and it's best you learn to work with what's available in your market and what's affordable to you. Experience will guide you to a better machine (or not if the machine you buy does cover your needs in the end).

I learned a lot about cars by buying five cheap ones over the past 15 years and working on them to keep them running, while I could have borrowed money to buy a single shiny 'ideal' car and just drive it and never learn anything...

[AlZilla]

I'd agree that neither of those machines seems ideal. Several members here have purchased machines from overseas (to their country). I wonder if that would be an option for you? I've never imported anything large and expensive, so I don't know.

[kgg]

4 hours ago, TakashiOkada said:

the difference in price is huge for me, in fact the typical tw3-18bl is a bit over my budget but if you guys tell me it's the right tool for the job I'm willing to save up a little more to get it.

From the information I have seen:

The p335vb is a binding machine that has a max thread size of V69 which is the cross over thread size from domestic sewing thread to industrial with a breaking strength of 11lbs.

The 18L can take a max thread size of V138 with a breaking strength of 22lbs.

I agree with @RockyAussie neither are the right machine. If you have only one source for new machines the one I would suggest looking at is their Typical TW3-341 which by the looks of it is a clone of the Juki LS-341. Also consider a used brand name like Juki in the Class 341 / 1341 or import a Juki LS-341 / 1341 clone from China. 

Buy Once, Cry Once

kgg

 

 

 

[TakashiOkada]

6 hours ago, AlZilla said:

I'd agree that neither of those machines seems ideal. Several members here have purchased machines from overseas (to their country). I wonder if that would be an option for you? I've never imported anything large and expensive, so I don't know.

I've asked the store and they told me they can import a machine for me! thanks for the idea!

6 hours ago, kgg said:

From the information I have seen:

The p335vb is a binding machine that has a max thread size of V69 which is the cross over thread size from domestic sewing thread to industrial with a breaking strength of 11lbs.

The 18L can take a max thread size of V138 with a breaking strength of 22lbs.

I agree with @RockyAussie neither are the right machine. If you have only one source for new machines the one I would suggest looking at is their Typical TW3-341 which by the looks of it is a clone of the Juki LS-341. Also consider a used brand name like Juki in the Class 341 / 1341 or import a Juki LS-341 / 1341 clone from China. 

Buy Once, Cry Once

kgg

 

 

 

the store said they can import this machine for me. it's the typical tw3-341 😄they haven't given me a price yet but I hope it doesn't cost an arm and a leg haha. fingers crossed!

Edited July 3 by TakashiOkada

[AlZilla]

Well, here it is on Alibaba. I've never bought anything big from them:

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/typical-tw3-341-heavydutysewing-machine-cylinder_1600595645634.html

And here's a video that shows a clutch motor, Most will want a servo:

 

[TakashiOkada]

2 hours ago, AlZilla said:

Well, here it is on Alibaba. I've never bought anything big from them:

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/typical-tw3-341-heavydutysewing-machine-cylinder_1600595645634.html

And here's a video that shows a clutch motor, Most will want a servo:

 

it says in the video that it can use size #14 to #24 needles, some other places say the smallest needle it can use is #18. I often use size #12 for very thin straps or watch bands and leather accessories with my father's old seiko TF-5. will this machine be able to handle such material/needle?

something like this 

 

Edited July 3 by TakashiOkada

[AlZilla]

1 hour ago, TakashiOkada said:

it says in the video that it can use size #14 to #24 needles, some other places say the smallest needle it can use is #18. I often use size #12 for very thin straps or watch bands and leather accessories with my father's old seiko TF-5. will this machine be able to handle such material/needle?

It's really hard to tell what the specifications are. I'd lay that responsibility off on your dealer, since you have one. I saw someplace that it could handle thread size 20/3 ... whatever in the world that is! It should specify a range.

[kgg]

 

4 hours ago, TakashiOkada said:

I often use size #12 for very thin straps or watch bands and leather accessories with my father's old seiko TF-5. will this machine be able to handle such material/needle?

The thread size for a #12 needle would be probably something like V33 (M80, Tex 30) range. Most of the Juki LS-341 clones will handle down to V46 (M60, Tex 45). True Juki's will handle down to V33 (M80, Tex 30). That said they are not going to be happy and will require a lot of adjustments as V33 has such a low a breaking strength of less then 2 lbs (.9kg). My opinion is that the Juki LS-341 and clones are better suited for a minimum thread size of V69 but prefer V138. 

kgg

[TakashiOkada]

@RockyAussie I've been browsing alibaba and found a seemingly reputable factory selling a 246 model at a price I can actually afford! what do you think.. should I get this one?

the product video shows that the feed dog moves in a circular motion, not just front to back like the 335

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/HK-246-Single-Needle-Cylinder-Bed_62558318957.html

Edited July 4 by TakashiOkada

[toxo]

1 hour ago, TakashiOkada said:

@RockyAussie I've been browsing alibaba and found a seemingly reputable factory selling a 246 model at a price I can actually afford! what do you think.. should I get this one?

the product video shows that the feed dog moves in a circular motion, not just front to back like the 335

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/HK-246-Single-Needle-Cylinder-Bed_62558318957.html

I think we're getting to the point where all the clones are merging into the same machine. Don't know the specs re needle/thread size but be aware that this price is for head only. Table, motor etc will be extra as will the shipping. 

[Digit]

2 hours ago, TakashiOkada said:

@RockyAussie I've been browsing alibaba and found a seemingly reputable factory selling a 246 model at a price I can actually afford! what do you think.. should I get this one?

the product video shows that the feed dog moves in a circular motion, not just front to back like the 335

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/HK-246-Single-Needle-Cylinder-Bed_62558318957.html

I don't see a reverse lever on that machine. It might be a button inside that dial, I'm not sure.

Make sure that the machine you buy has a reverse (you can work without, but it's way more easier if your machine can reverse stitch).

[AlZilla]

Looks like a reverse lever half way up on the right hand side, to me. US shipping is listed a $123.

Your tag for @RockyAussie didn't work right. Start with the "@" followed by the users name and select them from the drop down. I'll be interested in his thoughts, too.

[Digit]

1 hour ago, AlZilla said:

Looks like a reverse lever half way up on the right hand side,

Ah yes indeed. My cursory glance failed to notice the white lever on white background

[Cumberland Highpower]

On 7/3/2025 at 1:47 AM, TakashiOkada said:

I've been researching a lot on which sewing machine to buy and I came to the conclusion that my first machine has to be a cylinder arm machine if I want the closest thing to a sewing machine that does it all (since I can only afford one atm). I've been watching videos and lurking this forum and reddit but still unsure since some people warn against getting a 335 model for leatherwork, but then again you mostly talk about sewing thicker veg tan leather. all I'm going to sew is thin to medium thickness chrome tan leather bags, briefcases, wallets and accessories with it.

I went to the sewing machine store and they only have these two:

 

typical tw3-p335vb is about 1.500 us$ converting from my local currency. 650w servo motor is 100$ more. the non-binding needle plate and feed dog is an extra 30$

this one is for binding but I've seen some people use it for leather too

user manual: https://www.supsew.com/download/typical/Typical TW3-P335 Parts and Instruction Manual.pdf

 

 

typical tw3-18bl (about 2.300 us$) 650w servo is 100$ more.

this one is a proper machine made for leather. idk if it's gonna be able to handle thin leather though. 

user manual https://www.supsew.com/download/typical/Typical TW3-18BL-28BL.pdf

 

the difference in price is huge for me, in fact the typical tw3-18bl is a bit over my budget but if you guys tell me it's the right tool for the job I'm willing to save up a little more to get it. 

I'd probably just buy this machine.   I like the Singer/Seiko clones and this one has a reverse that's maybe easier to use (opinion).   Don't know what size bobbin that "Typical" uses....So I'm guessing it's the "Typical" bobbin?  Wonder if you have a little ability to negotiate with the merchant on price?

When you ask for advice everyone has a different idea of what a machine should be used for.  It's also pretty easy to spend someone else's money....

You can sew allot of various things on this machine.   You can sew handbags and wallets on this machine no problem. watch bands also. A smaller diameter cylinder arm would be a plus on maybe an infrequent occasion, but this might be all you need?  Heavy saddle work? No, but sounds like that's not your thing anyway.

The 341 clones are a good choice but not necessary if it is more expensive.   It's kinda like asking a farmer what tractor you should get to move hay?  One would say a Ford, one a Deere and another a Kubota.  The Deere and Kubota may have wet brakes and better hydraulics, but the Ford will move the hay bales around just the same-And for less money.

Edited July 5 by Cumberland Highpower

[RockyAussie]

On 7/4/2025 at 4:21 PM, TakashiOkada said:

@RockyAussie I've been browsing alibaba and found a seemingly reputable factory selling a 246 model at a price I can actually afford! what do you think.. should I get this one?

the product video shows that the feed dog moves in a circular motion, not just front to back like the 335

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/HK-246-Single-Needle-Cylinder-Bed_62558318957.html

That would be my choice and is the same as mine which can do about 90% of the work I do at Wild Harry. Note that the feet available on this machine have the same as the old Singer 111W machines which covers about anything you could ever want. Also note that this is for the head only and you may want to get a table and servo motor from them as well perhaps. Do not get the U shaped table as they get in the way too much as shown in the following video which is a different machine but shows the same problem -  

 

[TakashiOkada]

On 7/4/2025 at 5:10 AM, toxo said:

I think we're getting to the point where all the clones are merging into the same machine. Don't know the specs re needle/thread size but be aware that this price is for head only. Table, motor etc will be extra as will the shipping. 

yup, I'm aware. in fact I prefer it that way since my freight forwarder charges by weight, the lighter the better in my case. 

On 7/4/2025 at 8:36 AM, AlZilla said:

Looks like a reverse lever half way up on the right hand side, to me. US shipping is listed a $123.

Your tag for @RockyAussie didn't work right. Start with the "@" followed by the users name and select them from the drop down. I'll be interested in his thoughts, too.

oops. thank you,@AlZilla. I did it right this time haha

On 7/5/2025 at 1:02 PM, Cumberland Highpower said:

I'd probably just buy this machine.   I like the Singer/Seiko clones and this one has a reverse that's maybe easier to use (opinion).   Don't know what size bobbin that "Typical" uses....So I'm guessing it's the "Typical" bobbin?  Wonder if you have a little ability to negotiate with the merchant on price?

When you ask for advice everyone has a different idea of what a machine should be used for.  It's also pretty easy to spend someone else's money....

You can sew allot of various things on this machine.   You can sew handbags and wallets on this machine no problem. watch bands also. A smaller diameter cylinder arm would be a plus on maybe an infrequent occasion, but this might be all you need?  Heavy saddle work? No, but sounds like that's not your thing anyway.

The 341 clones are a good choice but not necessary if it is more expensive.   It's kinda like asking a farmer what tractor you should get to move hay?  One would say a Ford, one a Deere and another a Kubota.  The Deere and Kubota may have wet brakes and better hydraulics, but the Ford will move the hay bales around just the same-And for less money.

thank you, I agree completely with your sentiment and the 335 could be enough, BUT the 246 model I found on alibaba is literally the best machine for my needs on top of being way cheaper than the 335, so I'm leaning towards that one. 

12 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

That would be my choice and is the same as mine which can do about 90% of the work I do at Wild Harry. Note that the feet available on this machine have the same as the old Singer 111W machines which covers about anything you could ever want. Also note that this is for the head only and you may want to get a table and servo motor from them as well perhaps. Do not get the U shaped table as they get in the way too much as shown in the following video which is a different machine but shows the same problem -  

 

welp, this machine (246) seems like the one to get then. by the looks of it, it also can do about 90% of the work I do. that feet info is very helpful, thank you!

about the table...  I'm gonna have to resort to modifying a u shape table because they don't sell the kind you showed in your video where I live (that I know of) and importing a table is out of the question since my freight forwarder charges by weight, I'll buy a servo locally for the same reason. I like making things and tinkering so it's gonna be a fun project!

thank you guys. I'm very grateful for your advice. 

Edited July 6 by TakashiOkada

[Cumberland Highpower]

For some reason I'd probably not go the Alibaba route.

I see you're in Paraguay.   Besides freight, what about import tariffs, and paperwork?  Are they considerations?   

The cost is so low on the Alibaba unit, I wonder if you'd literally be getting what you pay for?  (low)

The one on Ali is also just a head.. A table/motor might $400-600 if you don't have one.

Of course it might be the best deal in the end...But may not be.  Your local dealer has machines in stock, ready to go.  See if he'll negotiate?

Sometimes a U shaped table is ok.  for smaller goods like wallets/bands and some smaller bags it's not bad at all.  It can give you a place to rest things as well as your left arm now and then.   IT's a handicap for larger goods though.

Edited July 6 by Cumberland Highpower

[kgg]

36 minutes ago, Cumberland Highpower said:

The cost is so low on the Alibaba unit, I wonder if you'd literally be getting what you pay for?

The typical price for a Juki LS-341 clone from China including table, brushless servo motor and delivered to the US off Alibaba is about $1400 to $1500 USD. Whereas a comparable clone machine would cost about $2600 -$2700 USD. The downside is probably the lack of support / etc. The upside is the $1200 USD in savings.

kgg

   

[TakashiOkada]

1 hour ago, Cumberland Highpower said:

For some reason I'd probably not go the Alibaba route.

I see you're in Paraguay.   Besides freight, what about import tariffs, and paperwork?  Are they considerations?   

The cost is so low on the Alibaba unit, I wonder if you'd literally be getting what you pay for?  (low)

The one on Ali is also just a head.. A table/motor might $400-600 if you don't have one.

Of course it might be the best deal in the end...But may not be.  Your local dealer has machines in stock, ready to go.  See if he'll negotiate?

Sometimes a U shaped table is ok.  for smaller goods like wallets/bands and some smaller bags it's not bad at all.  It can give you a place to rest things as well as your left arm now and then.   IT's a handicap for larger goods though.

The particular machine I linked has the tariff cost from china to the US included with shipping for some reason. I'm shipping the machine to Miami and then it's rerouted to Paraguay, sending it directly to Paraguay is not feasible because Paraguayan customs, as all other government institutions in general, are very inefficient and corrupt here and will definitely steal my machine. Freight forwarding companies somehow manage to get through customs without getting their packages stolen, for this reason most people just import through them instead of shipping directly to Paraguay without any intermediary. all of them have warehouses in Miami and some also operate in china and Spain. 

my freight forwarder handles literally everything and consolidates all the costs into one easy to calculate rate: weight. they also provide insurance on my package for up to 1.000$ in case anything happens to it during transport from their warehouse in Miami all the way to my house 

it's very convenient, it allows me to buy many leather work related tools and supplies that are just not available in here. most of my tools come from Tandy, weaver, buckle guy, amazon us, aliexpress and others.

BTW y'all don't realize how lucky you are. there's literally everything in your online stores and can import heavy stuff for so cheap, the cost of importing that model 246 from Miami to my country (520$) is almost as much as what the machine itself cost including shipping to miami and US tariffs (604$). if it included a table and a motor the freight forwarder fee would be too high, luckily it doesn't, it's just the head

Regarding quality... I've seen a few videos of people reviewing honkon branded machines and they seem happy with them, but I agree, it's going to be a gamble.

Edited July 6 by TakashiOkada