what needle do i want to use for leather and vinyl on my pfaff 1245 sewing machine?

[bodily_carried_technology]

hello, quick question, 

 

what needle do i want to use for leather and vinyl on my pfaff 1245 sewing machine? 

 

i keep hearing 190-22 but i check the forums and people are recommending some weird needles, so i wanted to ask, what needle should i use?

 

thank you 

 

[AlZilla]

Pfaff says 134-35 needle system:

https://www.pfaff-industrial.com/en/portfolio/sewing-machines/flat-bed-heavy-duty/pfaff1245

You'll then need to select a size to match your thread:

https://tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html

And then research the many different points available to decide what kind of look you want your stitches to have (scroll down about half way):

https://www.techsew.com/us/blog/needle-buying-guide.html

[kgg]

25 minutes ago, AlZilla said:

Pfaff says 134-35 needle system:

As a note some people did converted their machines from 134-35 needle system to the 135 needle system. If the previous owner did the conversion then for leather you would need 135 X 16 X (correct needle size) and for fabric 135 X 17 X  (correct needle size). What I have found is using a leather point needle will give a cleaner needle hole in vinyl then a fabric needle. Fabric needles are meant to separate the fibres of the material rather then cut them. 

42 minutes ago, bodily_carried_technology said:

what needle do i want to use for leather and vinyl on my pfaff 1245 sewing machine? 

Really depends on what size of thread you are planning on using and the needle system it is setup for. Your machine can accept up to V138 thread.

The 190-22 if I'm not mistaken is a system 190 needle used on the older PFAFF 145 so what they are suggesting is a #22 needle which is good for V92 thread. 

 

kgg

Edited yesterday at 12:04 AM by kgg

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, bodily_carried_technology said:

i keep hearing 190-22

Full STOP! The needle you listed is a "System" 190 profile, and a number (width of the business end) 22. The System 190 is an extra long needle. It is only recommended for higher than standard lift, mainly on walking foot machines. The reason is that the higher capacity of the foot or feet to lift and function properly would be too high for a shorter needle to clear the top of the lifted foot or feet. A standard walking foot machine might be able to sew up to 3/8 inch of compressible material. If you stuff 1/2 inch under the feet and hack them to lift higher up, the bottom of the needle bar will make hard contact with the raised inner or outer foot and something will give or break. So, some machines are already setup to sew thicker than standard and have their needle bar raised up high enough to clear the feet in their highest working position. Many are made to use the longer System 190 needle in the needle bar. Since the distance is longer from top to the eye, these needles can still go down far enough for a loop to form at the eye of the needle and the hook to pick it off.

Note, that these longer needles are more fragile in smaller sizes (diameters) and are more likely to get deflected and break that a shorter needle of the same "size."

Get the manual for that machine and compare the full model number to whatever is shown in the manual for the factory needle system.

The 22 part relates to a business end outside diameter of 0.718 mm. Due to the rib channel one one side and the cutout around the eye side, the actual diameter changes. No matter its geometry, a #22 needle is the minimum size required to sew with #138 (Tex 135) bonded thread on the top and bottom when you sew into soft to medium temper materials, and soft chap or garment leather. The thread itself has an outside diameter of about .414 mm. When you sew on a standard lockstitch machine, the top thread captures the bobbin thread and folds around it as it draws it up into the material. We refer to this lock configuration as a "knot." The knot is about twice the diameter of the individual top and bottom threads. Veg-tan leather is less pliable than chrome-tan chap and garment leather and its extra density means that you'll probably need a needle one number larger for the same thread sizes. Thus, to get the "knots" pulled well into the leather, you'll need a #23 needle with #138 bonded thread.

One parameter that hasn't been mentioned is the top mounting diameter of the part that goes up into the needle bar hole. It must be a good fit; not too loose and definitely not wider than the hole. You should be able to insert and remove a needle with finger pressure alone. It should not wobble when all the way up and tightened down with the needle bar set screw. Many modern era walking foot machines take a 2 mm diameter top needle shank. Some ancient machines only took 1.5 or some random number smaller than 2.0 mm.

[nejcek74]

Just for info, certain old casting Pfaff 1245 are using needle system 190. OP will have to check his machine, which subtype is and if it was maybe adapted for something else. My Pfaff 1245/48 that I bought used came with needles of the system 134. At that time the needle bar in the lowest position was pressing down on the presser foot if it was raised. I changed it to 134-35 as I had them at the time and it is just barely long enough that the parts are not touching.

[bodily_carried_technology]

9 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

Get the manual for that machine and compare the full model number to whatever is shown in the manual for the factory needle system.

that's a very good idea, and i tried to do that very thing, the only problem is that my pfaff 1245 is from the early 90's and i have tried to find the manual for it, or even the model number and i just can't find it, so i have no idea what needle the machine takes.

i pulled the needle off the machine and it says "organ 22" but i don't know what that means. 

[CowboyBob]

Measure it(the needle) & let us know how long it is.135x16,16 is approx 1& 3/4" long 190 is almost 2"

Edited yesterday at 01:42 PM by CowboyBob

[nejcek74]

here is the old adjustment manual

Pfaff 1245 Adjustment 89_09.pdf

and parts list 

Pfaff 1245 Parts 85_07.pdf

actually I gave you up the relevant information for the old 1245. If you are unsure which subclass you have please make a photo of the shield with class / subclass and share it here. It's kind of hard guessing things with so little information from your side :))))