How do I stitch leather onto denim?

[Nedscore]

Hi there! I am so excited to bring my questions to this forum because I have been doing lots of research and I want to find out from the true experts what the truth is. I am car nerd, but not a sewing one yet, so I hope to learn from you all so I can expand my knowledge.

I am starting my own leather/clothing brand and part of what I am making employs a tactic from the brand "Chrome Hearts". I have already purchased steel dies and a press to cut the leather. Now I want to sew it on denim and maybe leather pants/jackets, but I want to achieve a similar look to how Chrome Hearts sews on their letters. I will attach some pictures, but I will also clearly state my questions below. No worry if you don't know the full answers, please feel free to share what you know. I know I am traversing a couple techniques and areas with this project.

1. What kind of machine is best to do this job? I started off by thinking the "Singer Heavy Duty 4432" could do this, but as I dug deeper, I found a video from the factory and noticed they were using what appears to be a more industrial double feed table sewing machine. I also learned, that the singer machine may not be as high quality. I will put a link to the factory video if the forum lets me. https://www.reddit.com/r/FashionReps/comments/fsmwg5/this_is_how_chrome_hearts_jeans_are_made/ This is an old video, so the sample product photos I attach may be done differently or with a triple feed machine. Anyway, from that video I derived that maybe a Juki DDL8700H could fit the bill. However, I went to a local tailor and leather worker and she felt that I would need a triple feed walking foot machine like a Juki 1541. I am not sure which I need and possibly the sample photos I provide are done by different machines. I have heard all different theories about the size of the needle being the only thing that matters, but I am not sure.

2. What kind of thread is best? I don't want thread that frays. I've done a couple tests with my tailor and I'm not sure if the thread that she uses is just different or meant for clothing. I have attached a picture of this (N shaped leather) to show what I mean by fraying. Maybe Chrome hearts is using some sort of waxed thread. I've heard about bonded nylon, but have never felt it. Does it look waxed? Additionally, based on the photos, what size thread are you seeing? 69? 138? Are they different sizes for different applications. I really like the example of the singular red cross and I think it is a very clear depiction of what I like, especially the diagonal stitches.

3. How can I achieve the tightened look? I like how it looks like the stitches are almost pulling the patches tightly into the base denim/leather. Is this possible with adjusting settings.

I know this was a long post, but it means a lot to me to provide this level of quality on my brand. Lastly, I am a beginner, but I am driven and willing to spend thousands of hours on this project, so learning curve isn't as much of a problem for me. Please let me know what you think. I look forward to connecting with all of you and eventually making this happen! Thanks.

 

[chuck123wapati]

 Are you saying you are going to duplicate someone else's techniques and clothing to make your own line?  Copying that exactly may not be legal. Seems kind of unethical to me at the least. Good luck.

[Nedscore]

Hi @chuck123wapati. Thank you for your response. I appreciate your concern. I have no intention of stealing their intellectual property when it comes to design. Patchwork, however, has been around for centuries. My design is using my own logo, as seen with one of the letters of my brand in the last image of my original post. Similar to how Banksy doesn't own spray paint and public walls, Chrome hearts doesn't own leather patchwork. Would it be unethical for a photographer to ask another photographer what camera and brand of film they use because they want to take similar photos? Please let me know if I am still seeing this wrong. I am new to this world and don't want to break unspoken rules.

[bowthemaker]

2 hours ago, Nedscore said:

Hi there! I am so excited to bring my questions to this forum because I have been doing lots of research and I want to find out from the true experts what the truth is. I am car nerd, but not a sewing one yet, so I hope to learn from you all so I can expand my knowledge.

I am starting my own leather/clothing brand and part of what I am making employs a tactic from the brand "Chrome Hearts". I have already purchased steel dies and a press to cut the leather. Now I want to sew it on denim and maybe leather pants/jackets, but I want to achieve a similar look to how Chrome Hearts sews on their letters. I will attach some pictures, but I will also clearly state my questions below. No worry if you don't know the full answers, please feel free to share what you know. I know I am traversing a couple techniques and areas with this project.

1. What kind of machine is best to do this job? I started off by thinking the "Singer Heavy Duty 4432" could do this, but as I dug deeper, I found a video from the factory and noticed they were using what appears to be a more industrial double feed table sewing machine. I also learned, that the singer machine may not be as high quality. I will put a link to the factory video if the forum lets me. https://www.reddit.com/r/FashionReps/comments/fsmwg5/this_is_how_chrome_hearts_jeans_are_made/ This is an old video, so the sample product photos I attach may be done differently or with a triple feed machine. Anyway, from that video I derived that maybe a Juki DDL8700H could fit the bill. However, I went to a local tailor and leather worker and she felt that I would need a triple feed walking foot machine like a Juki 1541. I am not sure which I need and possibly the sample photos I provide are done by different machines. I have heard all different theories about the size of the needle being the only thing that matters, but I am not sure.

2. What kind of thread is best? I don't want thread that frays. I've done a couple tests with my tailor and I'm not sure if the thread that she uses is just different or meant for clothing. I have attached a picture of this (N shaped leather) to show what I mean by fraying. Maybe Chrome hearts is using some sort of waxed thread. I've heard about bonded nylon, but have never felt it. Does it look waxed? Additionally, based on the photos, what size thread are you seeing? 69? 138? Are they different sizes for different applications. I really like the example of the singular red cross and I think it is a very clear depiction of what I like, especially the diagonal stitches.

3. How can I achieve the tightened look? I like how it looks like the stitches are almost pulling the patches tightly into the base denim/leather. Is this possible with adjusting settings.

I know this was a long post, but it means a lot to me to provide this level of quality on my brand. Lastly, I am a beginner, but I am driven and willing to spend thousands of hours on this project, so learning curve isn't as much of a problem for me. Please let me know what you think. I look forward to connecting with all of you and eventually making this happen! Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. As for a machine i would suggest a flatbed with a walking foot like a old Juki 562 or 563. They are fairly common to find used in places like Facebook marketplace and craigslist. 

2. I would suggest using a nylon bonded thread like Vimeyo. Personally I use number five for both hand stitch and machine stitching.

3. And by tightened, I'm assuming you're meaning a slight pucker when the thread is pull tight… That could be done by adjusting the thread tension of the machine…

One question you should think of is how would you care for the garment? As washing leather is never really a good solution… I guess there's always dry cleaning but I'm not sure how that works with textiles and a hide. 

All that said, good luck

[kgg]

2 hours ago, Nedscore said:

No worry if you don't know the full answers, please feel free to share what you know.

In the video you referenced.

i) They are using some sort of adhesive probably double sided basting tape as noted by them pounding the patch onto the jeans and the roll of 1/2" wide basting tape on the table.

ii) The patches appear to be 2 oz chrome tan.

ii) The sewing machine appears to be a flatbed drop feed Juki DDL-8700 H with a Teflon presser foot.  

iii) The thread appears to be V69 or V92 but the photo's appear to be V92 or V138. The Juki DDL-8700 can only take V69 max and the DDL-8700H can take V138 max.

iv) The needle system of the Juki DDL 8700H uses the DBx1 needle system up to size #18 (110) needle for V69 and for thread above V69 uses a needle system 134. 

v) as seen in the later part of the video they have to crunch up the jeans to sew the patch in place which is what you would expect for a flatbed machine. 

3 hours ago, Nedscore said:

However, I went to a local tailor and leather worker and she felt that I would need a triple feed walking foot machine like a Juki 1541.

I would Not recommend the Juki DNU-1541 even though it is a really good triple feed Japanese made machine for a few reasons.

i) the hole in the feed dog is very large and has a tendency to suck thinner materials down into the needle plate.

ii) absolutely hates thinner materials that is why I also have a Juki DU-1181N to cover off the thin stuff.

I would recommend if you are only planning on sewing flat items like a wallet / belts get a flatbed. If you are going to sew items that are circular like pant legs get a cylinder arm with a flatbed attachments like a Juki LS-1341 or clone. Most people go with a clone machine as a Juki LS-1341 will cost north of $5000 while a clone will run about $2500.

kgg

 

 

 

[Nedscore]

Thank you @bowthemaker and @kgg. I appreciate you taking the time to read through my post and help me.

First, @bowthemaker, I agree that it will be difficult to wash and I have thought long about this. At some point, switching to faux leather may make more sense, but I guess these are meant to be more of a fashion piece and not an every day wear, so for now I like the realness of the leather. Thank you again for identifying thread, size, and machine. I will research these and watch some videos on them. The only problem I have with procurement is I am currently living in Southern Spain so I don’t have as good of access to local markets. I have yet to really dig with a local retailer though. They may have them lying around.

@kgg thank you for giving so much detail. I see at the bottom you recommended a walking foot machine. However, you agree that the machine in the video is not a walking foot. Do you think that it makes more sense for me to jump straight to walking foot instead of trying to replicate their teflon foot setup? Do you think the orange leather from the sample photos was maybe done with a walking foot because of the layering and heavy canvas material? If it helps, my intention with the brand is to product pants, jackets, scarves, belts, etc with this patchwork technique. Mainly, it will be one layer of leather on one layer of fabric (denim, canvas, etc). However, occasionally they could overlap like some of the patches seen in the photos. The only reason I am not immediately leaping for a walking foot, is because I feel that maybe with the right teflon foot, needle, and motor speed setup, the DDL8700H can easily manage the job I want to do and more. Perhaps the walking foot is overkill. Or, perhaps my lack of experience entirely is blinding me into thinking I can cut corners on cost. The brand is just starting out so $1000 and $3000 look a lot different from each other. Please let me know if I am in my own head or on to something.

[kgg]

1 hour ago, Nedscore said:

Please let me know if I am in my own head or on to something.

I would suggest taking a sample, like a leg of a pant and going to a dealer to test what machine would work best.

kgg

[AlZilla]

5 hours ago, Nedscore said:

The only reason I am not immediately leaping for a walking foot, is because I feel that maybe with the right teflon foot, needle, and motor speed setup, the DDL8700H

You know a triple feed will handle the job and give room for thicker/heavier products in the future.

Maybe a chrome tan leather of some kind will endure washing? I don't know. But Id be inclined to look for a synthetic that would stand up to the expected number of wash cycles that the rest of the garment should.  Most people just won't care if it's Naugahyde or leather.

[Digit]

The only thing I'd like to add is that machine stitching might cause your fabric base to fray: in order to sew leather, you need a sharp leather point needle to cut through the material, while when sewing fabric you use a round point. The round point finds its way between the threads of the fabric; stitching fabric with a leather point could cut the threads in the fabric, weakening the fabric at the stitch line and eventually making the patch loosen and/or making a hole in the fabric.

It might a a bit far-fetched; surely other people here have practical experience with this.

[dikman]

You CAN use round-point needles on leather, on thin leather it should be fine.