Heavily Tooled?

[JohnBarton]

Hi everyone,

I need some advice. One of my competitors is selling a case that they are advertising as "heavily tooled" when it is in fact machine embossed. Here is the case:

I have received an email asking me to justify my prices from an interested customer because he says that this one has a lot of tooling and is cheaper than mine. My quandary is that I don't want to speak of this case or it's seller in a negative way and I have brought it to the seller's attention that I feel the insinuation is that the case is "hand tooled" since no one else describes die embossed leather as "heavily tooled". The seller has informed me that he and the maker consider this to be tooled, although on the maker's site they don't say that, they say embossed. So, to me, using the description "heavily tooled" is misleading even though it may be technically accurate.

In comparison if I were to say something is "heavily tooled" (which I wouldn't) then I would use something like this as an example;

My question to you all are these;

1. What are the proper descriptions of leather decorating methods, as in what are the commonly understood terms?

2. Should I perhaps put something on my website that defines these terms with examples?

3. How would you proceed with this comparison request?

Thanks for any help,

John

[jbird]

he is trying in a round about way to make it seem like it's tooled but how many folks no the difference not many So that's very incorrect to say heavly tooled and in my opinion he knows this, but you don't have to maline him just make it clear very clear what the difference is and how much more you are getting with yours. My 1 1/2 cents worth

Josh

Edited January 29, 2009 by jbird

[Bree]

Hi everyone,

I need some advice. One of my competitors is selling a case that they are advertising as "heavily tooled" when it is in fact machine embossed. Here is the case:

I have received an email asking me to justify my prices from an interested customer because he says that this one has a lot of tooling and is cheaper than mine. My quandary is that I don't want to speak of this case or it's seller in a negative way and I have brought it to the seller's attention that I feel the insinuation is that the case is "hand tooled" since no one else describes die embossed leather as "heavily tooled". The seller has informed me that he and the maker consider this to be tooled, although on the maker's site they don't say that, they say embossed. So, to me, using the description "heavily tooled" is misleading even though it may be technically accurate.

In comparison if I were to say something is "heavily tooled" (which I wouldn't) then I would use something like this as an example;

My question to you all are these;

1. What are the proper descriptions of leather decorating methods, as in what are the commonly understood terms?

2. Should I perhaps put something on my website that defines these terms with examples?

3. How would you proceed with this comparison request?

Thanks for any help,

John

John...

Business is business. You are well within your rights to show what a genuine tooled piece of leather looks like and explain exactly how much time goes into real tooling vs running the leather through an embosser. When your competitor engages in questionable and unethical business practices, he is not due white gloves treatment by you. He sure didn't give that treatment to you did he?

Demonstrating what real tooling is vs imitation tooling is not unethical. It is factual and proper. I would share photos of the real deal versus imitation as well as a full explanation. You can do that and stay on the high road.

My $.02.

[CitizenKate]

I have received an email asking me to justify my prices from an interested customer because he says that this one has a lot of tooling and is cheaper than mine. My quandary is that I don't want to speak of this case or it's seller in a negative way and I have brought it to the seller's attention that I feel the insinuation is that the case is "hand tooled" since no one else describes die embossed leather as "heavily tooled". The seller has informed me that he and the maker consider this to be tooled, although on the maker's site they don't say that, they say embossed. So, to me, using the description "heavily tooled" is misleading even though it may be technically accurate.

Regardless of what terminology the seller and/or maker choose to describe the work, one is in fact done with a machine, and the other is done with hand-held tools. From the buyer's perspective, the difference it would make to them, is that the work done by hand will have more depth and clarity, and will hold up better over time.

Kate

[rawhide1]

John

I'd tell my customer you get what ya pay for. I mean hell my 5y/o could tell the difference in craftsmanship between the two. I would think with the quality of your work you wouldn't have to explain anything. Just my .02 cents

Mike

[CitizenKate]

Business is business. You are well within your rights to show what a genuine tooled piece of leather looks like and explain exactly how much time goes into real tooling vs running the leather through an embosser. When your competitor engages in questionable and unethical business practices, he is not due white gloves treatment by you. He sure didn't give that treatment to you did he?

I agree, but I also think it's a good reflection on John that he is seeking a way to distinguish his own work without badmouthing the competition.

Kate

[JohnBarton]

I agree, but I also think it's a good reflection on John that he is seeking a way to distinguish his own work without badmouthing the competition.

Kate

Ashamedly, I haven't always taken the high road in these matters but I am trying to turn over a new leaf. :-)

[kiwidownunder]

Hi everyone,

I need some advice. One of my competitors is selling a case that they are advertising as "heavily tooled" when it is in fact machine embossed. Here is the case:

I have received an email asking me to justify my prices from an interested customer because he says that this one has a lot of tooling and is cheaper than mine. My quandary is that I don't want to speak of this case or it's seller in a negative way and I have brought it to the seller's attention that I feel the insinuation is that the case is "hand tooled" since no one else describes die embossed leather as "heavily tooled". The seller has informed me that he and the maker consider this to be tooled, although on the maker's site they don't say that, they say embossed. So, to me, using the description "heavily tooled" is misleading even though it may be technically accurate.

In comparison if I were to say something is "heavily tooled" (which I wouldn't) then I would use something like this as an example;

My question to you all are these;

1. What are the proper descriptions of leather decorating methods, as in what are the commonly understood terms?

2. Should I perhaps put something on my website that defines these terms with examples?

3. How would you proceed with this comparison request?

Thanks for any help,

John

My thoughts are that when someone comes to me and asks that question , I would tell them --

Well my work is completely hand tooled, meaning that I cut the leather with a blade, which makes a very clear edge between the design and the background. If you were to run your fingers over the design you will feel the depth and sharpness that hand tooling leaves. Also once the design is finished the depth of colour in an embossed background has no real difference to the floral of the piece.

Remember that in todays market those embossed pieces, make our hand crafted picecs very expensive and, you know the average person has no idea how long it takes for someone to create a true work of quality.

Kiwi.

[jbird]

I think it can be done in way that is honorable in my mind it's all a matter of principal and weather work or other thing you can do it in way that's respectable and honest.

Josh

[K-Man]

Don't ya just hate it when a competitor (or not) makes a play on words in order to justify their existence? My experience has often been that the cheaply made product is priced higher than my prices for a matching or similar product.

Here's what I would do. I'd set up a spot on my website for educating the general public. Show samples of hand-tooled and embossed patterns on leather, include some close up shots of each. Explain briefly, yet succinctly, the differences between the two. Explain how the process is achieved in both instances. If possible, show pics of what embossed leather looks like new, and what it looks like after a couple of years. Huge difference with respect to the durability/maintaining pattern clarity between embossed and expertly hand-tooled leather. Keep your responses on an informational/educational level. That way you're not taking "digs" at the competition. It's likely that you'll aggravate the heck of the competition because you've exposed their scam, but you've done nothing more than educate the customer with information that they could ultimately find out through their own research. Integrity is the name of the game here. There's a ton of businesses/competitors out there who choose not to follow that line - don't be one of them.

In this instant case, I'd show the potential customer detailed pics of what your tooled cases exhibit. Tell the customer what type of leather/materials you use, who the artisan is that does the tooling, and encourage them to do some research on those materials and bios. If they've got a lick of sense (and most do), they'll be back to you with the results of their search and ordering one of your cases.

Good luck to you.