Ebay Fraud Alert!

[Go2Tex]

Got an email from a customer who saw one of my saddles on Ebay that I had sold on Ebay back in 2007. It was the exact listing, pictures, description and all. Someone had stolen the pics and description and was attempting to sell another saddle using my old listing. I new that the saddle I made was not being re-sold now so I knew that it was definitely a fraud. I notified Ebay and they pulled that auction.

I hope they tracked the guy down and will refer it to the cops, but I doubt they do that.

[bruce johnson]

Brent,

We have had that happen too. I took a saddle in and sold it on ebay. A while later my same pictures and description showed up with someone else as seller. The guy who made the saddle called me and reported it to Ebay and the listing came off. I had the maker's website in the listing for reference. A while later, same deal - same seller. Again reported and came off. The third time it happened I emailed the seller directly. I told him that he was copying my listing and pictures, and I knew that saddle was being used and not sold. He sent me back a deal that he was a volume seller and had something set up to automatically generate and repeat his stock listings monthly. Somehow the listings got crossed up and was generating my pics and description. He removed that one from his "program". We haven't seen it since.

[Go2Tex]

Brent,

We have had that happen too. I took a saddle in and sold it on ebay. A while later my same pictures and description showed up with someone else as seller. The guy who made the saddle called me and reported it to Ebay and the listing came off. I had the maker's website in the listing for reference. A while later, same deal - same seller. Again reported and came off. The third time it happened I emailed the seller directly. I told him that he was copying my listing and pictures, and I knew that saddle was being used and not sold. He sent me back a deal that he was a volume seller and had something set up to automatically generate and repeat his stock listings monthly. Somehow the listings got crossed up and was generating my pics and description. He removed that one from his "program". We haven't seen it since.

Yeah well, this guy is not a power seller. His membership started this month. He's a crook and I'd like to get my hands on his neck.

[bruce johnson]

Brent,

I am not sure our guy wasn't a crook either. There is one bright spot in this deal. Theoretically he can only be paid by PayPal, his money will be held until he gets good feedback, and he can't leave bad feedback for the buyer. Isn't the braintrust of Ebay brilliant??

[jwwright]

I had the same deal happen with a couple different saddles I sold on Ebay last year. I reported them and both listings came down pretty quick. Brent I saw your saddle and was going to holler at you, but then I checked again and saw that Ebay had pulled it. JW

[Rawhide]

What a scumbag!!!

Sorry you had to go through that...but thanks for the warning.

People like that should be taken out and....(use your imagination).

[Denise]

I wonder if there is any way to track and see if this is the same person or not. Three people here with the same problem sounds suspicious to me. Trying to sell fake, very identifiable hand made saddles on Ebay. Can't be a whole lot of people stupid enough to do that, is there? And if it is the same guy, then they could ban him, couldn't they?

[TwinOaks]

With spoofable ISPs and the anonymity of the internet, I don't think it'd do much good, Denise. There'd be better results getting Ebay to turn over his user info (presuming it's real) to a lawyer and going after him for infringement and fraud.

If nothing else, the use of someone else's pics/description violates copyrights....I think.

Mike ( <-----electrician...not a lawyer)

[Denise]

I was just thinking that Ebay wouldn't be wanting this to happen on their site either, so they might be interested in getting rid of the guy if it is the same guy. With all the traffic on the site, nobody there is likely to connect these three incidents. But if it was brought to their attention, maybe they would take some action. Small potatoes to them, but it is their name that gets dragged through the mud if this keeps happening...

[JohnBarton]

This stuff happens with high end cues all the time and the cue collecting community is pretty quick at spotting them now. Several years ago though people were getting scammed right and left.

I haven't seen Ebay's paypal policy concerning holding the funds against positive feedback but if that's the case then lvoe it or hate it that sure does seem like it would cut out seller fraud completely.

Now how does the honest seller have any protection?

[JohnBarton]

I wonder if there is any way to track and see if this is the same person or not. Three people here with the same problem sounds suspicious to me. Trying to sell fake, very identifiable hand made saddles on Ebay. Can't be a whole lot of people stupid enough to do that, is there? And if it is the same guy, then they could ban him, couldn't they?

It's really hard on Ebay if the seller is clever. I had to deal with people selling copies of my product and ripping off my pictures and descriptions to do it. Ebay used to make it difficult to get these auctions taken down and now I guess it's somewhat easier. But the point of it is that these folks don't think in terms of how foolish it is to list something unique they just see the type of auctions which bring in mucho dinero and copy them hoping to get a sucker to send money. And surprisingly enough without diligence on the part of the community it often works.

Going after the people perpetrating these atttempted frauds is fruitless because they haven't committed enough of a crime by virtue of the listing to get law enforcement interested and secondly the accounts are very often hidden behind layers of email addresses making it very difficult to identify them.

For every advance in technology there is an equal amount of decrease in civility. Ebay is a great worldwide marketplace and a great opportunity for scammers. Hoepfully Ebay is figuring out ways to make it really hard for the scammers now.

[Go2Tex]

Going after the people perpetrating these atttempted frauds is fruitless because they haven't committed enough of a crime by virtue of the listing to get law enforcement interested and secondly the accounts are very often hidden behind layers of email addresses making it very difficult to identify them

Agreed, however, it's a lead to be added to a file on some computer that hopefully will help some detective solve a case someday. That's how it works, or should work. The same technology that provides the opportunity for crime, also provides the opportunity to fight that crime.

I guess there is a way to keep your pics from being grabbed off the Internet. And, I guess a person could overlay their name on the pic, so that it couldn't be removed or clipped out. Anybody here know how to do that?

[gtwister09]

I guess there is a way to keep your pics from being grabbed off the Internet. And, I guess a person could overlay their name on the pic, so that it couldn't be removed or clipped out. Anybody here know how to do that?

Brent,

It is called watermarking and most photo editing programs have that capability. Unfortunately if someone wants to use your work, they can remove that as well. Like you said the same technology can be used.

Regards,

Ben

Edited February 20, 2009 by gtwister09

[BobHall]

This stuff happens with high end cues all the time and the cue collecting community is pretty quick at spotting them now. Several years ago though people were getting scammed right and left.

I haven't seen Ebay's paypal policy concerning holding the funds against positive feedback but if that's the case then lvoe it or hate it that sure does seem like it would cut out seller fraud completely.

Now how does the honest seller have any protection?

Holding funds against feedback may sound good on the surface, but unless things have changed recently there's no requirement that a buyer leave feedback. I'm not sure I want PayPal holding my money indefinitely. I've sold a lot of items there and not all buyers, regardless of how happy they are with auction, leave feedback.

Just a thought...

Bob

[MADMAX22]

The cops arent gonna do anything 99%of the time. Hate to say it but its true unless you live in some really small town and you have a friendship with them and then maybe just maybe they can help you out.

A guy on a bike forum I frequent had a bike stolen from him. He saw the parts listed on ebay two days later (could tell because of the custom paint job). So he bought one of the parts off the guy to get his mailing address and such. Took all that to the cops and they were well rather pissed and basically told him to back off or he was going to get the short stick lol.

Just try to protect your self and keep an eye out for others. Even if you got his/her address and went to there home if you can find it the chances of that turning out good are slim as the law in this country is more toward protecting criminals then it is the innocent. Use water marks and such and report bad ones is about all you can do. Or not sell on ebay.

[wolvenstien]

Go here:

http://www.thescambaiter.com/FORUM/index.php

Scamming on eBay is greater than most people thing....

[JohnBarton]

Holding funds against feedback may sound good on the surface, but unless things have changed recently there's no requirement that a buyer leave feedback. I'm not sure I want PayPal holding my money indefinitely. I've sold a lot of items there and not all buyers, regardless of how happy they are with auction, leave feedback.

Just a thought...

Bob

This is the actual policy:

https://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/webscr?cm...ayments-outside

There has to be a default to receive payment and it's time. I say that 99% of honest sellers fit the criteria for NOT having their payments held. For those that are new to Ebay then I guess it sucks to have to wait six months to not have your payments held up but overall it's not a bad thing to have to EARN the right to sell in their marketplace.

I haven't checked out Ebay's changes in a long time but they definitely need SOME way to combat the fraud and on the surface this seems like one way to do it.

[UKRay]

This is very similar to the situation with CCTV cameras where the innocent person has little or nothing to fear from surveillance.

Ebay have simply put some 'checks and balances' in place to protect the purchaser. As long as you operate your eBay sales in a respectable and honest way then you have little to fear. However, if you let people down or try to sell shoddy goods then you will fall foul of the checks and balances. IMHO, as a buyer and seller, I think that is a good thing not something to be afraid of. I certainly don't think it warrants any scaremongering.

In simple terms, I want the eBay community to trust me so I work hard to make sure my feedback is always good - if that is a problem then perhaps folk should consider selling elsewhere.

[wolvenstien]

I certainly don't think it warrants any scaremongering.

Scaremongering.... no. But education and making aware of whats gong on is. I know whats going on on eBay, but I am educated enough to know what to look for and what to stay away from. If there are any questions about an item, I will try to talk to the seller. If the seller doesnt respond I will not bid. If the seller does respond, it all depends on what they say and how they say it. I have spent alot of time on thescambaiter.com. I have learned alot. I am not jaded, just educated. And I try to educate others too.

[JohnBarton]

Scaremongering.... no. But education and making aware of whats gong on is. I know whats going on on eBay, but I am educated enough to know what to look for and what to stay away from. If there are any questions about an item, I will try to talk to the seller. If the seller doesnt respond I will not bid. If the seller does respond, it all depends on what they say and how they say it. I have spent alot of time on thescambaiter.com. I have learned alot. I am not jaded, just educated. And I try to educate others too.

A lot of us are like this - we have been around and we can see the red flags most of the time. But you have to remember that a site like Ebay draws millions of new visitors daily. It draws crowds of buyers like no other site in the world. A lot of these folks aren't internet savvy, they are there to look for a specific item and they gravitate towards the most attractive offer.

[Go2Tex]

This is very similar to the situation with CCTV cameras where the innocent person has little or nothing to fear from surveillance. .......

Maybe not today. You Europeans have a long history of revolutions to get rid of bad leaders, kings, and tyranical governments and it seems you don't ever learn. You seem all too willing to give up your guns, your personal freedom and privacy for the sake of a little security.

Big Brother is all well and good when he's the guy you voted for, but we Americans know all too well how quickly things can go the other way. That nice, friendly cop on the corner or that TV camera is great until the government enacts a law that turns law abiding citizens into criminals, i.e. gun ownership.

[Tina]

Maybe not today. You Europeans have a long history of revolutions to get rid of bad leaders, kings, and tyranical governments and it seems you don't ever learn. You seem all too willing to give up your guns, your personal freedom and privacy for the sake of a little security.

Big Brother is all well and good when he's the guy you voted for, but we Americans know all too well how quickly things can go the other way. That nice, friendly cop on the corner or that TV camera is great until the government enacts a law that turns law abiding citizens into criminals, i.e. gun ownership.

Wow, interesting.

Where did you go to in Europe and how long did you stay?

[Go2Tex]

Wow, interesting.

Where did you go to in Europe and how long did you stay?

I've visited a few countries but that's not how I came to believe what I do about Europe in general. One need only look at how quickly so many European countries surrendered their soverignty to the E.U.

By the way, how's that working out for ya'll? How's your economic situation? How's your unemployment? What is your interest rate and how long do you wait in line to buy a home? And eh, how much do ya'll pay in taxes? And how many bureaucrats do you have to buy off to get permission to own a gun? And, how much more do you have to pay to import something after it passes the approval of the EU?

[Tina]

Wow ...

Time to open your school books again. I have given your rude and inaccurate comments way to much time already, just a few facts that I can easily look up then I close this book.

Economy:

Don’t pretend we all don’t know the cause of this mess, to make it a bit simplified: Wall street and fraudulent triple A papers, a housing bubble = house of cards, I live here and I do watch all the news too...And I do pay attension.

Now with that said:

Interest rates (checked today) for buying a home

Sweden: Todays rates

2.2% on adjustable rates

2.5% on fixed rates.

The equivalent to the "Federal Reserve" in Sweden has the interest set to 1% today....Rather nice I think:-)

USA: National Average Rates today... (I could not find a today's best on adjustable loans)

30 Yr fixed 5.42% 5.33%

15 Yr fixed 5.02% 5.09%

...and I have NEVER ever heard of anyone having to wait/stand inline to buy a house on the market??? You bid/make an offer, if you win/agrees it’s yours...How different is that from here???

Unemployment rates:

Sweden March 2009 - 7.4%

Michigan March 2009 - 8.4%

USA total January 23, 2009 - 7.6% (US Department of Labor info) I did not find more recent facts.

Just to mention a few...

License for weapons... Takes a few days to a month depending on time of the year (ie; hunting season) handled by the police, some stipulations might apply. The "No guns in Europe" is a American Urban legend, very convenient for certain organizations to scare unsuspected people with..."Beware of the dangerous European way of life".

I also think the accusations of bribes is totally inexcusable.

High taxes...

The sum our family pays for the medical insurance/month is almost the amount the taxes are in Sweden/month. (this does NOT include the co-pay of $5000/person/year here if surgery and such is needed)

Some of what you get for the tax money:

They have state medical over there, the co-pay/year/person is $290 this include all medical treatment and medications and some dental care. If my memory serves me right I think Germany and England might have it even better?

Taxes pays for the roads, (very, very good condition compare to MI)

Taxes pays for free schools and universities. (The idea is that never mind how poor you are, education is a right and should not be deprived due to lack of funds.) You have to pay for your literature at the universities.

Taxes also pays for free school lunches all the way through high school.

Taxes pays partially for daycare.

The list could be much longer, this is just a few things, but important things.

Within EU (Like within USA) we don't pay taxes. Coming from outside EU the taxes are different depending of the item (just like here...) One only need just to stay on the right side of the law...Just like here!!! Strange how similar it is, isn’t it?

No country have to join EU, it’s all voluntarily and in every case I can remember on the top of my head it has been a peoples choice election first=democracy. The same with currency, some has changed to Euro, some has not, again democratic elections in most cases.

Now, for the rest, what I don’t know I try to find the right answers to before stating a fact and if I can’t find it, I would like to think I have the sense to shut up!

With this said I have stated what I had to say in this matter//Thanks

[Go2Tex]

Wow ...

Time to open your school books again. I have given your rude and inaccurate comments way to much time already, just a few facts that I can easily look up then I close this book........................

Yeah well, this is getting a bit off topic, but I always find it interesting how people label anything they don't agree with as "rude" unless it's sugar coated. Besides, bribery among public officials has become a way of life in this Country. What's so bad about that accusation? Heck, in Illinois it's like part of your resume to get elected. I think it's a requirement. Like not paying your taxes to be appointed to the President's cabinet.

But, thanks for setting me straight on Sweden and I'm happy for ya.... Is there a national sales tax, local sales tax, property tax, car tax, carbon tax, business or corporate tax? I don't see how a country could manage it. Free health care and education for all, probably very generous unemployment benefits too, and partially free child care, excellent roads, and free school lunches!!! all for a few hundred bucks per month. Amazing!

I'm afraid it all sounds too good to be true. Someone or some group is paying for it, and I'll just bet it's the upper income earners and/or businesses that are paying through the nose. All that stuff you're getting from mommy government is not free. Is Sweden sitting on huge oil reserves or something? Oh, I know, ... ski wax tax! Blonde hair dye tax? Lutefisk tax?

Don't think you mentioned anything about a "right" to gun ownership in Sweden but at least it's nice to know that ya'll don't have to grease anyone's palms to get permission to buy one. I'm not so sure about the rest of Europe. I know that Germany is very restrictive, (not an urban legend but just fact). You MUST belong to a shooting club. And we all know how easy it is to get, let alone keep a gun in jolly old England these days....well, unless you're a criminal. Guess that's why bombs are the weapon of choice over there. Or is that also an urban legend? God only knows what the French require. I hear they have a lot of military surplus rifles available.... How about Italy? Right to own? Right to carry?......ok, besides the Mafia?

One thing we do agree on is that things are getting to be about the same here as in Europe and frankly, it scares me to death. We are taxed to death and it's getting worse. We fought a revolution once to free ouselves of the Europeans and a tax rate of about 3% or something like that and it's now in total about 40% on average when you add it all up. It's tyranny, plain and simple. America has become a socialist country. It should be our worst nightmare and what do the voters do? They vote in a guy who admitted he was going to "spread the wealth". Can you say, Marxism?