woolfe Report post Posted March 4, 2009 (edited) How many people use this technique for holsters? How many of you using this technique use it on your own personal holsters? "Chrome tanned leather- Chromium salts used in the tanning process can and do react with the bluing agents used on firearms, causing the appearance of surface rust. These should be avoided." I pulled this out of the John Henry holster making sticky... I don't see how vinegaroon can be considered any safer. Leather tends to trap moisture and if reagents are present that accelerate the oxidation process how is this safe? I've been playing with vinegaroon and I absolutly love how easy and cheap it is to use. I do stain my belt loops with it. But, I can't seem to talk my self into using on the actual holster after seeing how fast the blueing will be stripped off a gun if the holster happens to get wet, say someone gets caught in the rain. I would love to hear your arguements as to why its safe to use. Its definatly easier, and I would love to feel good about using it myself. Edited March 4, 2009 by woolfe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jbird Report post Posted March 4, 2009 Ok here it goes I have tested this stuff a lot and I find that once you have applied the vinagroon you rince it let it dry out and as far as I can see it does not seem like it is present in the leather after it airs out and I have not seen signs of water having a negative affect having tested it on some bluing I can see no affect out of the ordinary but this having been said the mix makes a difference how long it sit with meatal in it I think if it's a strong mix it might be a different story, any way I used it on some holsters and I can't see any signs of any bad results. Josh Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
woolfe Report post Posted March 4, 2009 I tested it out one time. I rinsed it in baking soda water to help neutralize it and in fresh water. I then let it dry for a while before wet molding. During wet molding it was on the gun for about 1 hour tops, I did not time it. Thank god I used a cheap gun and I know how to reblue a gun. I could not believe how badly it started to surface rust and strip the blueing. I never have trouble with Fiebings dyed leather and wet molding. I guess I'll have to try letting it completely dry out and then resoaking before wet molding. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dbusarow Report post Posted March 4, 2009 My EDC holster is one I built about 4 months ago and used vinagaroon on. I've worn it almost every day for those 4 months. I do have a Glock in it, not a blued 1911, but no odd effects at all. I also have one for a blued Les Baer custom but that gun doesn't spend a lot of time in a holster, just range time. It does get used and I'm not concerned that the vinagaroon is going to eat the finish (on my prettiest most expensive gun). Dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
woolfe Report post Posted March 4, 2009 I guess with the humidity in Florida I'm a little more nervous about it. I'll have to test it some more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fishguy Report post Posted March 4, 2009 If you neutralized it with baking soda then perhaps it wasn't the vinegaroon that caused the rust. Though, baking soda, a good rinsing and letting it dry before bringing it in contact with steel sounds like a good idea. I typically do my vinegaroon dying right after cutting out the holster, so it has been neutralized and rinsed and let dry way before I go to wet molding. I also suspect that any left-over vinegar or acidity does not remain in the leather for long. Acetic acid (vinegar) is more subject to breakdown through contact with the air (oxidation) or micro-organisims than chromium salts, which are basically there forever. The actual black pigment is produced by a reaction of the dissolved iron with the tannins that are present in all veg-tanned leather. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jbird Report post Posted March 4, 2009 Yes this sounds like it needs time to air dry for sure I think the air gets rid of the rest of the stuff. Josh Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
woolfe Report post Posted March 4, 2009 I'm convinced to give it another go. Thanks a bunch!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bree Report post Posted March 4, 2009 Not sure what the right answer is but I have a plastic coffee can sitting with a bunch of oxidizing steel wool and rusty old nails. I put a little water in and get everything nice and wet and then let it dry out and rust away until I rewet the whole thing and start the cycle again. The steel wool is falling apart now and I think next week the vinegar is going in to start brewing the 'Roon. I have some nice fresh bullhide cut to make a super Nemesis for my P3AT so I can park a mag in next to the pistol. Once the 'Roon is ready the bullhide goes in and we'll see just how black black is! I am eager to see the results but I suspect that I have a few weeks left to go. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dickf Report post Posted March 5, 2009 I have an old pickle jar that looks like super strong tea with mere particles at the bottom. The particles started life as an entire pad of 0000 steel wool. The vinegaroon is strong and works fast. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChuckBurrows Report post Posted March 5, 2009 No more problem with vinegaroon than with the tannic acid in veg/bark tan when it's used properly and FWIW - I've been using it for 35+ years with no problems. Neutralize with baking or even better washing soda and water, which also helps darken the leather and helps remove the odor, and then rinse thoroughly with clear water. Let air dry until all odor is gone - the acetic acid in vinegar has a VOC rating and once the odor is gone so is the acid....... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bronson Report post Posted March 7, 2009 I'm too new at the holster thing to be able to add much to this forum but I want to add something productive instead of just asking questions all the time Many years ago I was watching a show where two guys would refinish furniture. On this particular show the wood refinisher dude was using a mixture of vinegar and rusty metal on oak. He roughed up the surface with a wire brush and applied a liberal amount of the vinegaroon. It produced a beautifully highlighted grain pattern. He said it worked very well on oak due to the high level of tannins in the wood. So if any of you are also into wood or furniture finishing there's another use for the vinegaroon you've got laying around Bronson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shorts Report post Posted March 11, 2009 As much as I've read and received advice on the forum here, then vinegarooning some items and used recommended procedures, I can't find the nerve to use it on my holsters. I'll keep it for some projects depending on their use. But for my peace of mind, I'll keep using black dye for my holsters. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MADMAX22 Report post Posted March 13, 2009 (edited) Would like to add that while I havnt made any holsters really I do make the mutli tool pouches on occasion and use vine for that and it works just fine. Had a few people use them for a while and no ill reports of rusted multi tools. Just like to add also my recipe for the vinegraroon is using a big plastic coffe jug I put the gallon (little less) of the vingeger in there and added about 3 or so of the steel wool. No need to rust it up first or anything. After about 2 weeks or so it is usable for a nice finish. Now after a little longer it is just a black vineger with a few chunkies in the bottom. It works very well. I can either dip them or paint it on, works both ways. Edited March 13, 2009 by MADMAX22 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bronson Report post Posted March 17, 2009 I just made a test swatch from my vinegaroon. It worked great and mine has only been sitting for about four days. I washed a steelwool pad with soap and water, squeezed it as dry as I could and put it in the vinegar. 4 days later it's a brown sludgy liquid and I dipped a q-tip in it and spread it on the leather which instantly turned a nice even, dark charcoal. I'm excited about this new (for me) techinque. On another note I've also done some test pieces with some PVA diluted with water and drop of dish soap (read about it someplace on Leatherworker.net) to use as a treatment for the inside of the holster. So far so good with that one too. Once the water dries it leaves a thin flexible coating that can be slicked down nicely. Bronson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bronson Report post Posted March 17, 2009 I sent an email to all my "crafty" friends about the vinegaroon figuring they might like to knwo about it. One of them, a metal/blade/armor/smith emailed me back with this: Hi Bronson, I use this recipe for a top patina on copper, the Japanese call it "ohaguro" and it can be made with vinegar, beer , or sake (cheap sake). They suggest heating iron scraps to a red heat and letting them air cool, then adding them to the liquid. The Japanese method say let the mix sit for six months to get a good reaction (topping the liquid off that evaporates). It produces a beautiful dark brown speckled surface when used. Also, it was popular for upper class women to color their teeth black with during the Edo period. That's cool, I'll have to try it on leather. It appears this stuff is pretty versatile Bronson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bronson Report post Posted March 23, 2009 I was bit by the woodworking bug this weekend and made some grip panels for my 1911. They are made from a 1/4" oak piece that I got from Lowes for about $3.00. After shaping them I dipped them in my vinegaroon and it really made a nice effect. The pics don't really do the color justice. In real life the dark areas a dark purple-ish grey. Anyway, just something else that you can do with the wonder-mixture Bronson http://www.flickr.com/photos/29310638@N07/3377674807/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/29310638@N07/3378492480/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
woolfe Report post Posted March 23, 2009 I was bit by the woodworking bug this weekend and made some grip panels for my 1911. They are made from a 1/4" oak piece that I got from Lowes for about $3.00. After shaping them I dipped them in my vinegaroon and it really made a nice effect. The pics don't really do the color justice. In real life the dark areas a dark purple-ish grey.Anyway, just something else that you can do with the wonder-mixture Bronson http://www.flickr.com/photos/29310638@N07/3377674807/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/29310638@N07/3378492480/ WOW... Those are really nice. If I had a 1911, if I could afford to spend the money on a 1911 atm, I would be trying to make a set exactly like you did. Very nice work!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shorts Report post Posted March 23, 2009 Nice Bronson, bobtailed and everything. I eventually want to try my hand at grip panels. BTW, did the bobtail change the feel of the grip in hand? I'm considering that mod myself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TwinOaks Report post Posted March 24, 2009 (edited) Sweet Mother of Customization, those are SPECTACULAR! I just happen to have some red oak sitting around......dang it, I've got too many projects! But in the very near future, I can see my 1991A1 wearing a set. Cut, shaped, sanded, then dunked? Or dunked first? ....ooo....and I got a knife project too.... Edited March 24, 2009 by TwinOaks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bree Report post Posted March 24, 2009 Went down to the shop to show a friend my vinegaroon brew. I found black crust floating on top of the brew. All of the steel wool has completely dissolved. The rusty nails are almost dissolved. The brew is turning bullhide strips black in a half a minute or less. It's starting to look good! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bronson Report post Posted March 24, 2009 Thanks everyone. Sometimes I get the bug to make something and I just start going The bobtail version is great. IMO it feels much nicer than the standard 1911 grip and it's more comfortable for carrying in a holster too. Oh, mine came like that I'm not ambitious enough to start grinding on my guns yet. I did the rough shaping with a file then sanded with 220 then final sanding with 320, blew all the dust out of the grain with high pressure air, wiped them off and dipped them in the solution. Then I buffed 'em out and rubbed them down with linseed oil. I may go back and put a coat of sealant on them since the oak is pretty porous (it took forever for the oil to stop coming out of the wood). The most difficult part was drilling the holes. My 1911 uses grip screw bushings in the frame so the panels need to be counterbored from both sides to allow them to fit over the bushings and allow the screw head to recess into the grip. Luckily I have access to a full cabinet shop and experienced cabinet makers at work Bronson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
