Artisan Price Decrease

[Cobra Steve]

Hello everyone, my name is Steve and i formerly worked for Artisan. Many of you know me through trade shows, leatherworker.net, word of mouth, or talking to me on the phone. I have always done my best to to help the customer. I have set the industry standards for customer service & tech support. I am well respected in the industry because of this. I have always been honest with you because i respect you and admire your skills. I have been reading some of your posts regarding the price decrease of the Toro Machines. I cannot stay silent anymore regarding this issue. The truth of the matter is credibility and ethics. I know for a fact, (i heard it from a very reliable source)that the real reason that Artisan dropped their price so drastically was for one reason, and one reason only. That reason was to hurt me and my new company, the Leather Machine Co., Inc., where i was introducing my COBRA line of Leather Machinery at the Wickenburg Leather show. Artisan felt that if they lowered their prices so low, that i would not be able to compete, and essentially putting me out of business. This underhanded tactic did not work. People came to my booth and wished me well on many occasions. I also made my share of sales, even though the deck was stacked against me. I welcome competition and i even said why don't we sell the machines at a fair price for both of us, but this fell on deaf ears. Price, as you well know, is not always the contributing factor when purchasing machinery. My features on my new line of COBRA leather stitchers are far better than Artisan's, including presser feet that were approved by very respected saddle makers and holster makers. There are other features that the COBRA machines have(that come standard on the machine)that make this the absolute best buy available. Quality is standard when you deal with me, and service is more important than the sale itself. If you have a problem in 6 months from now, and i am not able to help you, believe me, you will not tell your friend about me, but if i am able to give you the best service and support available, and you are satisfied with me, then you will tell your friend to call me. Many of the people that i sold machines to, recommended another person to call and ask for me. I am deeply grateful to you for doing so. If you would like to talk to me about anything that i have written about, then please call me at 1-866-962-9880 or cell 1-909-800-1429. And if you are not able to get the service that you deserve, you can always call me, i don't care where you bought your machine. Thank you for taking the time to read my post, your friend always, Steve

[jwwright]

Hi Steve...........do you have a website up yet for your new machines, or any other information available?

Thank You,

JW Wright

[Arturo]

Steve:

Thanks for checking in here and I'm glad the Wickenburg show went well for you. I have been trying to contact you via email through your website for several days but for some reason I keep getting an "undeliverable" message. I'll PM you with some questions through this forum.

Thanks again,

Arturo

[Cobra Steve]

Hi JW, the website is being built as we speak. It should have more info in a couple of days. Thank you for your time, Steve

[BuckhornBrand]

Steve,

I bought an Artisan 3000 from you at the Boot and Saddlemakers Roundup in Wichita Falls last October. You were a big help in my decision to buy the machine and have continued to be a big help anytime I had a question or a problem. Hope all goes well for you and I'll be checking out your website when it's up and running.

Thanks for all you do to help us out, Chuck Norris

[anne newkold]

Steve, Best of Luck To you! One of the things I always respected the most about working with you was the fact that it did not matter to you from who someone bought a machine from, you were always willing to help people out with machine questions.

Best of Luck!!

Anne

[ryano]

One of the problems that I have with all dealers is this; All off these large cylinder arm clone machines are made and assembled in Asia. Either in China or Taiwan. There are 3 machine factories over there that make every one of them. I absolutely hate it when dealers tell me different. For this I might add, one process can can be done to the machines, like a quality check for instance, then that countries stamp can be put on that product. It is called a global pass through. Just be honest is all we're are asking.

Edited March 16, 2009 by ryano

[Cobra Steve]

Steve,

I bought an Artisan 3000 from you at the Boot and Saddlemakers Roundup in Wichita Falls last October. You were a big help in my decision to buy the machine and have continued to be a big help anytime I had a question or a problem. Hope all goes well for you and I'll be checking out your website when it's up and running.

Thanks for all you do to help us out, Chuck Norris

Hi Chuck, hope all is well. Thank you for the kind words. Johanna from leatherworker.net is building my website as we speak. There should be info within a couple of days. Thanks, your friend, Steve

[Kevinjohnson]

It's nice to seem people chime in and give their side of the story. I do not know Steve personally but have heard from respected people in the bus. (V.Weaver) that he's a good guy. Does this shed more light on Mr. Jerry? I would definetely like to hear his side.

[Cobra Steve]

It's nice to seem people chime in and give their side of the story. I do not know Steve personally but have heard from respected people in the bus. (V.Weaver) that he's a good guy. Does this shed more light on Mr. Jerry? I would definetely like to hear his side.

Hi Kevin, thank you for the kind words, i will thank Vern as well, hope all is well,Steve

[Jordan]

This reminds me of a past job I had, kind of. In the early 90's I briefly worked as a sales person for a computer mfg. in socal. At the time gateway was a small startup, as was the company I worked at. The owner had a bright idea, implement a price war to put gateway out of business. Well, after about 6 months and huge price drops across the industry for mailorder computers, I showed up for work one morning to a locked empty building and goverment seizure notices on the window. Wild guess as to who is still in business today. Last I heard the owner of the company I worked at had skipped out with a lot of cash and his fancy german sportscar. Never did get paid for that last month and my computer self destructed about 6 months later.

[tonyc1]

At least this debate re. machines may clear the air and we'll know what is what! We have to make up our own minds after reading the posts.

Tony.

[Randy Cornelius]

Steve,

I wish you well in your new endevor, I very much enjoyed the time I spent with you and Jerry at the booth at every show I seen you at. It was your knowledge and genuine love of the business that swayed me to buy my first machine from Artisen all those years ago. I have never once regreted buying an Artisen and the support from you and Jerry after the sale has been great. You two spliting up is like a divorce amount your closest friends, you don't know which to support more. I suspect that your new machine is just as good if you have put your name on it. I do not want to get in the middle of whatever happened between you and Jerry as both of you are very well respected men in the business and I consider both a friend. I wish you well and hope to see you down the road somewhere.....

Randy

[Cobra Steve]

This reminds me of a past job I had, kind of. In the early 90's I briefly worked as a sales person for a computer mfg. in socal. At the time gateway was a small startup, as was the company I worked at. The owner had a bright idea, implement a price war to put gateway out of business. Well, after about 6 months and huge price drops across the industry for mailorder computers, I showed up for work one morning to a locked empty building and goverment seizure notices on the window. Wild guess as to who is still in business today. Last I heard the owner of the company I worked at had skipped out with a lot of cash and his fancy german sportscar. Never did get paid for that last month and my computer self destructed about 6 months later.

Hello Jordan, hope everything worked out for you. If you ever need anything please contact me. Thanks, your friend, Steve

Steve,

I wish you well in your new endevor, I very much enjoyed the time I spent with you and Jerry at the booth at every show I seen you at. It was your knowledge and genuine love of the business that swayed me to buy my first machine from Artisen all those years ago. I have never once regreted buying an Artisen and the support from you and Jerry after the sale has been great. You two spliting up is like a divorce amount your closest friends, you don't know which to support more. I suspect that your new machine is just as good if you have put your name on it. I do not want to get in the middle of whatever happened between you and Jerry as both of you are very well respected men in the business and I consider both a friend. I wish you well and hope to see you down the road somewhere.....

Randy

Hello Randy, you are truly one of my good friends as well. Thank you for the nice things you said about me. Hope we can see each other in the future. Your friend, Steve

[Jordan]

Thanks, that incident was just one of many, in my many many job adventures through the years. If I am ever in the market for another machine rest assured I would give your company a good look along with others in the market place. Good luck in your business as it take a lot of moxy to be in business at anytime let alone these days.

[Shorts]

:soapbox: CAUTION! Frustration mounting!

What I'm finding pretty darn frustrating as a first time stitching machine buyer is the back and forth about not only the machines, but about the business and the people behind them.

How in the world am I suppose to choose a machine when such turmoil is buzzing around? I don't know anyone from a stranger on the street. As for the use, quality, fit, finish and reputation about the machines, well I don't know those either.

What I do know is, I have some money and I need a stitching machine. I want to make the right decision about buying the right machine at the right price from the right people.

Soapbox off...

Come on folks. This 'thing' is seriously turning off and confusing a lot of buyers (<-- Me)

[ryano]

Talk to Bob at Toledo Industrial Sewing Machine. 866-362-7397 I would be afraid of getting in the middle of this squabble and would bypass them. Just my opinion.

[gnarls]

CALL VERNON AT WEAVER LEATHER AND GET AN ADLER. THERE HAS BEEN SOME USED ONES FOR SALE ON THIS FORUM

[JohnnyDingus]

Personally I would still check out each machine and company as before these postings. I would want a few pertinant questions answered. But in the end I would have to make my decision by quality and use of equipment on my part and by who in my gut made the best machine for me. I do that no matter of price because in the end you have be happy with who you deal with and what you purchased.

Good luck to you Steve, and I echo Jordan's coment about starting in this trying time. If you can make it now you will have it made.

Johnny Dingus

[Bree]

:soapbox: CAUTION! Frustration mounting!

What I'm finding pretty darn frustrating as a first time stitching machine buyer is the back and forth about not only the machines, but about the business and the people behind them.

How in the world am I suppose to choose a machine when such turmoil is buzzing around? I don't know anyone from a stranger on the street. As for the use, quality, fit, finish and reputation about the machines, well I don't know those either.

What I do know is, I have some money and I need a stitching machine. I want to make the right decision about buying the right machine at the right price from the right people.

Soapbox off...

Come on folks. This 'thing' is seriously turning off and confusing a lot of buyers (<-- Me)

Shorts...

Trust me they know. Focus on your own needs and requirements. Check out the equipment and the total picture. You will have the machine for a long time and service is more important than price. Find the folks you are most comfortable with and make a good deal for yourself. Let them sort out their own problems.

[awharness]

Steve I am dying to see a picture of the new machine and maybe a side by side comparision of the Corba, Toro, Bull and the cowboy. Price as well! In this economy if anyone has the gumption to start a business I have much respect!

-Andrew

[ryano]

Adler 205 is also cast in China and a couple of the processes in Czech Republic. Which doesn't make them bad I guess.They are not made in Germany as Weaver advertises by mouth. They are also super very expensive compared to the other knock offs. It's like anything else out there, buyer beware. That is why I stuck with an old proven American heavy iron machine. This post is like the old Ford vs Chevy scenario. My whole point is only this; Dealers tell the truth and quit bull----ing us.

[Cobra Steve]

Steve I am dying to see a picture of the new machine and maybe a side by side comparision of the Corba, Toro, Bull and the cowboy. Price as well! In this economy if anyone has the gumption to start a business I have much respect!

-Andrew

Hi Andrew,

Johanna is working on our web site as we speak. www.leathermachineco.com

Basically the machines are similar, the main difference with our machines are the features and of course, my service. If you need more info. call me toll free at 1-866 962-9880

Thanks, Your Friend Steve

[ryano]

Service means a lot!

[Art]

Hi Everyone,

I was at Wickenburg working in Steve's booth. It cost me $2,000 to go out there with my son and help Steve, who I have known for years. I also know most everyone in the leather machine business, especially folks selling new machines and quite a few of the used machine sellers. I also know the folks in China, well at least most of them doing business over here, and I know a lot more about the financial condition and factors all along the chain than I can tell. If anyone wants specific no bull info on what is going on, I can pretty much relate how things are going, privately. For the last couple of years, there has been a bunch of bull being put forth by certain folks, and I am not happy with it, and I have let one distributor know that I am going to let folks know when they make false statements. I have been previously lied to and have given out info on this forum that was told to me as the truth, and it was a total fabrication. That will stop now and I will clear-up any false statements. I have been checking out every statement made about sewing machines, and there will be no more BS.

Fact one:

Other than Luberto, Campbell-Bosworth, and a few others who do some refurbishment, there are no manufacturers of leather sewing machines in the US; that capability left a looooong time ago. They all are pretty much made in mainland China.

Fact two:

There are no Chinese machines assembled in USA or America even. China does not send castings here for distributors to assemble using their parts. Every machine comes in a box, and is completely assembled, any other story is BS, pure and simple.

Fact three:

Distributors do assemble complete units from feet, needle plates, stands, motors, speed reducers, belts, lights, thread stands, and machine heads. Some go to great pains to design their feet and needle plates and provide quality equipment. If I file and grind out a foot or needle plate, it would astonish you how fast and at what cost I can have 100 made. If I can find something that is just about right already in production, minor modifications like loping off a foot are even faster and cheaper.

Fact four:

As far as leather machines go, there are variations of the Juki 441, and there are variations of the Adler 205, yes there are other machines, but those two make up the majority; lengthen or shorten the arm and maybe beef-up a casting and there you go. There are all of about four what I call Class A factories in China who make these machines, and there is a very small community of folks work in trade in these machines. What I call Class A is a factory with CNC equipment (preferably US, Japanese, or other serious manufacturer) and quality control procedures to back that up.

Fact five:

I have checked with my contact in China (yes I have one and she is an exporter), and she checked to see if there is any order for 400 machines anywhere in China. Nope, no way you can keep that secret. Any talk of new castings? The first question was WHY? the ones we are using work fine! She checked anyway and No, nothing. This in the land where you can find out anything, and I mean ANYTHING for lunch or less.

So, if you are buying a Chinese sewing machine labeled (in alphabetical order):

Artisan

Cobra

Cowboy

Ferdco

Sewmo

you are going to get, pretty much, a good machine. Feet might be different, setup might be good, bad, or non existent, this all depends on the person running the distribution company and providing the service. If you want my private opinion, there are three, maybe four companies I would trust to send money to, get a hold of me by phone if you want my opinion, and why.

Artisan is selling the 3000 for $1650. If you can actually get a machine for that, go for it, it is considerably less than he sells them to dealers for, and is a great deal. There is a great deal of information in my last sentence.

In the end, the price of the machine doesn't matter, you are going to have it until your wife or kids sell it, service matters very much, very very much. If it is a 441 or 205, you can get parts, and if you can get parts you can fix it, having someone to help you with that is paramount.

The above is purely my opinion based on information I have derived from various sources and my hands-on use of these machines and other resources at my disposal.

Art