Artisan Price Decrease

[jwwright]

Many Thanks Art. JW

[ryano]

Thanks Art for taking the time to clear this up.

[gnarls]

TELL YOU A STORY. SOMEONE HAD SAID THE ADLER 205 WAS CAST IN CHINA. I WANTED TO FIND OUT IF IT WAS TRUE. FOUND AN E-MAIL ADDRESS AND ASKED IF THAT WAS TRUE. NEVER FIGURED I WOULD GET AN ANSWER. THIS AFTERNOON AN ODD NUMBER SHOWED UP ON MY CALLER ID. INSTEAD OF ANSWERING BY E-MAIL A GENTLEMAN TOOK THE TIME TO PLACE A LONG DISTANT PHONE CALL FROM THE CZECH REPUBLIC TO ANSWER MY QUESTION. THAT WAS SERVICE!!!! HE TALKED VERY SLOW SO I COULD UNDERSTAND HIS ACCENT . HE SAID" ALL THE MEDIUM TO HEAVY WEIGHT ADLER STITCHERS ARE CAST IN THER FACTORY IN THE CZECH REPUBLIC, WHICH IS STAMPED ON THE NEW ADLER'S. THERE ARE SOME LIGHT WEIGHT ADLERS THAT SELL IN THE $500.00- $700.00 RANGE THAT ARE CAST IN CHINA. HE SAID ANY ONE WHO DOES NOT BELIVE CAN POST THE PHONE NUMBERS AND IF I SEND THEM TO HIM HE WILL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO CALL AND GIVE YOU THE ADRESS."

I THINK IF ALL OF US COULD GIVE THAT KIND OF SERVICE TO OUR CUSTOMERS BUSINESS WOULD BE GOOD.

TO ME THE REASON WE RUN OUR OWN BUSINESS IS SO THAT WE CAN EACH MAKE OUR OWN DECISIONS AS TO WHAT IS IN OUR SHOPS. IF YOU HAVE A MACHINE THAT WORKS FOR YOU AND YOUR HAPPY WITH IT, AND CAN MAKE A GOOD PRODUCT. I'AM HAPPY FOR YOU, AND WILL NEVER TELL YOU THAT IT IS NOT ANY GOOD OR THAT YOU BOUGHT IT FROM THE WRONG DEALER OR COUNTRY. AND BEFORE I MAKE ANY STATMENTS I HOPE I TAKE THE TIME TO DO RESEARCH AND GET MY FACTS STRAIGHT.

[tonyc1]

I bought my Adler from Ferdie's son, Ron, when he had Richland Industrial Machines about 10 - 12 years ago. Where would mine have been made?

Tony.

[gnarls]

YOU CAN CALL ADLER IN GA. AT #770-446-8162 AND ASK QUESTIONS

[Art]

Hi Tony,

That puppy is a German Shepherd. I'm pretty sure SGSB (China) bought out Kugelfischer in 2005. The gentleman who stated they are made in the Czech Republic is correct, I am not sure where every part is made, but nonetheless they are still a very good machine and with the 16.5" arm they are comparable to a 441. You pays your money and you takes your pick.

Art

I bought my Adler from Ferdie's son, Ron, when he had Richland Industrial Machines about 10 - 12 years ago. Where would mine have been made?

Tony.

[tonyc1]

Hi Tony,

That puppy is a German Shepherd. I'm pretty sure SGSB (China) bought out Kugelfischer in 2005. The gentleman who stated they are made in the Czech Republic is correct, I am not sure where every part is made, but nonetheless they are still a very good machine and with the 16.5" arm they are comparable to a 441. You pays your money and you takes your pick.

Art

Thanks, Art.

Tony.

[Cobra Steve]

Thank you Art for the help, and for telling it like it is. Your friend, Steve

[skipj]

I remember a "war" between two camera shops in MI years ago. One was open Sundays the other wasn't. The store that was closed on Sundays put up a sign when they were closed offering a popular camera for a unbelievable price which the store which was open couldn't match. Of course, when both stores were open the next day, the great price was unavailable. I guess they were trying to keep their competitor from selling cameras when they weren't open. It would jusr drive me away, but some folks didn't see what was going on.

I wonder if something like this is happening with sewing machines. Or perhaps it was a buy at the show only special.

Does Artisan Dave have the authority to make such an offer? He seems to represent Artisan on the forum.

SkipJ

[BruceGibson]

I don't have a dog in this fight/hippo in this race, whatever. But, I bought my Artisan Toro 4000P from Steve three or four years ago. Since then, when I thought "Artisan," I thought "Steve." In other words, the two were synonymous. I've never regretted the purchase, and anytime I came up with an asinine question to ask, it was Steve who I called for the answer.

I won't badmouth Artisan, but I will continue to refer folks to Steve. Irregardless of who he represents, the value is in the man, not just the product, or who's nameplate's riveted to it. Not only has he helped me out when needed, he's taken extremely good care of every referral I sent. And there have been several. There will be many more.

Integrity's always meant something, but it's so damn uncommon nowadays that when you find it, it glows like neon in Vegas.

Steve's good people. He shoots straight, won't jerk your chain, and he'll be there when, and if, you have a problem. That's good enough for me.

[greg gomersall]

Thank you Art for the help, and for telling it like it is. Your friend, Steve

Steve if you guys are gonna come out with a big splitter we should talk. The old International splitter is a lot better design than the Randall and you might be interested in copying mine. Greg

[Art]

Hi Greg,

The Randall clone is not really ready for prime time. There are no guides for setting thickness, and it takes forever to get the blade back in and aligned. It might be made better by developing a jig to install the blade, and a couple of dial indicators would help the thickness setting issue. I would be interested in the International to see how they did it. Other than that, a good used band splitter even at two or three times the price of the Randall might be a better idea.

Art

Steve if you guys are gonna come out with a big splitter we should talk. The old International splitter is a lot better design than the Randall and you might be interested in copying mine. Greg

[BruceGibson]

Steve I am dying to see a picture of the new machine and maybe a side by side comparision of the Corba, Toro, Bull and the cowboy. Price as well! In this economy if anyone has the gumption to start a business I have much respect!

-Andrew

Here's a little preview if you'd like a look: Cobra Machines from Leather Machines Company

[greg gomersall]

Hi Greg,

The Randall clone is not really ready for prime time. There are no guides for setting thickness, and it takes forever to get the blade back in and aligned. It might be made better by developing a jig to install the blade, and a couple of dial indicators would help the thickness setting issue. I would be interested in the International to see how they did it. Other than that, a good used band splitter even at two or three times the price of the Randall might be a better idea.

Art

Art the international has blades stops built into it so the blade slides ahead to the same spot every time. It takes approx. 2 minutes to remove or install blade and has a feed system one can only dream about. My splitter has a hand crank wheel while the other end has the original belt drive wheel to mechanize and a quick disengage lever on lower front if one needs to diengage quickly when under power. As for a dial for depth indicater it isn't really practical for anything more than casual reference as the firmness of one piece to the next will vary, so you will have slight differences due to this. Greg

[Andy]

Steve,

I have tried emailing from the web site a few times, no responses and some bounce backs. Not very inspiring for a potential customer.

Andy

Hello everyone, my name is Steve and i formerly worked for Artisan. Many of you know me through trade shows, leatherworker.net, word of mouth, or talking to me on the phone. I have always done my best to to help the customer. I have set the industry standards for customer service & tech support. I am well respected in the industry because of this. I have always been honest with you because i respect you and admire your skills. I have been reading some of your posts regarding the price decrease of the Toro Machines. I cannot stay silent anymore regarding this issue. The truth of the matter is credibility and ethics. I know for a fact, (i heard it from a very reliable source)that the real reason that Artisan dropped their price so drastically was for one reason, and one reason only. That reason was to hurt me and my new company, the Leather Machine Co., Inc., where i was introducing my COBRA line of Leather Machinery at the Wickenburg Leather show. Artisan felt that if they lowered their prices so low, that i would not be able to compete, and essentially putting me out of business. This underhanded tactic did not work. People came to my booth and wished me well on many occasions. I also made my share of sales, even though the deck was stacked against me. I welcome competition and i even said why don't we sell the machines at a fair price for both of us, but this fell on deaf ears. Price, as you well know, is not always the contributing factor when purchasing machinery. My features on my new line of COBRA leather stitchers are far better than Artisan's, including presser feet that were approved by very respected saddle makers and holster makers. There are other features that the COBRA machines have(that come standard on the machine)that make this the absolute best buy available. Quality is standard when you deal with me, and service is more important than the sale itself. If you have a problem in 6 months from now, and i am not able to help you, believe me, you will not tell your friend about me, but if i am able to give you the best service and support available, and you are satisfied with me, then you will tell your friend to call me. Many of the people that i sold machines to, recommended another person to call and ask for me. I am deeply grateful to you for doing so. If you would like to talk to me about anything that i have written about, then please call me at 1-866-962-9880 or cell 1-909-800-1429. And if you are not able to get the service that you deserve, you can always call me, i don't care where you bought your machine. Thank you for taking the time to read my post, your friend always, Steve

[Deb59]

Steve,

I have tried emailing from the web site a few times, no responses and some bounce backs. Not very inspiring for a potential customer.

Andy

I got on the new Cobra Website yesterday afternoon. There have been some pictures added and I sent off an email to Steve inquiring on prices of a couple of machines, and asked if they were going to have some Show Specials at Sheridan. I really did not expect to hear back anything until sometime this week (during normal business hrs), but to my suprise, I received an email back yesterday evening with answers to my question, and 2 phone numbers (one of them a cell #) to call and talk to him at any time. I was greatly impressed with getting a response so quickly, and on a Sunday evening no less.

I am sure with all that is on his plate right now, new business, Wickenburg, Web Page etc it just takes a little time.....(Of course we leathercrafters can't wait to see the new machines, tools etc and want the information NOW so we can either buy, or figure how long we have to save up before we can get one)....Darn leather addiction anyway:}

Contact #'s for Steve are

1-866-962-9880

cell 1-909-800-1429

(Hope I did not step out of turn by posting the numbers, he will probably have a phone permanently attached to his ear) - Thanks Deb

[Lui]

I bought my first machine when I was 6 months into leather crafting since from the start I already knew I was not going to do much hand sewing. I met Steve at the Butler Pennsylvania show and bought the 3000 floor model he was setting up at the show. We closed the deal with a handshake and I left with it when the show ended. He has basically held my hand throughout my learning curve and I have no complaints about the machine or Steve and if it ever gives me a problem chances are I will still call Steve for help and when I buy another I will look him up first.

Lui

[Cobra Steve]

- bought my first machine when I was 6 months into leather crafting since from the start I already knew I was not going to do much hand sewing. I met Steve at the Butler Pennsylvania show and bought the 3000 floor model he was setting up at the show. We closed the deal with a handshake and I left with it when the show ended. He has basically held my hand throughout my learning curve and I have no complaints about the machine or Steve and if it ever gives me a problem chances are I will still call Steve for help and when I buy another I will look him up first.

Lui

HI lui, I remember you well. How are you doing? Hope all is well.- Thank you for the kind words and for your support. If you ever need me, please call me at 1-866-962-9880, or on my cell at 1-909-800-1429. Thanks, your friend, Steve

[Red744T]

So, if you are buying a Chinese sewing machine labeled (in alphabetical order):

Artisan

Cobra

Cowboy

Ferdco

Sewmo

I am not too fond of the Chinese government nor their brand of authoritarian capitalism. To be fair, they earned their 2 trillion through hard work and the quality on quite a few products made in China is excellent but still I would prefer to buy something that's made in a more democratic country.

What alternative do I have? and what premium do I have to pay for a simple cylinder arm sewing machine that is made outside of China? I have a brother 787 I picked up locally for a fairly decent price and after stumbling across the leatherworker.net forum I added an Artisan servo motored on it. The servo motor allow me to better control my stitchings and really improved the sewing quality. The brother is great, but I am still having trouble increasing the upper thread tension with heavier thread and given the rave reviews on the cylinder arm machines and the advice to buy new for a beginner I was seriously considering an Artisan Toro 3000 or 4000 given that I thought it was assembled in the US.

I may still end up with a Chinese made machine, but it's always nice to know what other options exists and if it's feasible to save for those alternatives. I don't mind Taiwanese made machines.

Thanks,

John

[harleysue]

Hi Chuck, hope all is well. Thank you for the kind words. Johanna from leatherworker.net is building my website as we speak. There should be info within a couple of days. Thanks, your friend, Steve

[Art]

Hi John,

Even the Japanese names we know like Consew and Mitsubishi are built in China.

Campbell Bosworth, Union, and Randall are all built/refurbished in the US. The Classic by Luberto is also made in the US. All of them absolutely great machines. I have a Campbell and a No.9 (Daddy of the Classic) both are excellent machines. Juki still makes the 441, and I know a few folks who can modify it for leatherwork. Big Adlers are sill being assembled/made in the Czech Republic and sold by Weaver.

Anyone else chime in if you know of any.

Art

I am not too fond of the Chinese government nor their brand of authoritarian capitalism. To be fair, they earned their 2 trillion through hard work and the quality on quite a few products made in China is excellent but still I would prefer to buy something that's made in a more democratic country.

What alternative do I have? and what premium do I have to pay for a simple cylinder arm sewing machine that is made outside of China? I have a brother 787 I picked up locally for a fairly decent price and after stumbling across the leatherworker.net forum I added an Artisan servo motored on it. The servo motor allow me to better control my stitchings and really improved the sewing quality. The brother is great, but I am still having trouble increasing the upper thread tension with heavier thread and given the rave reviews on the cylinder arm machines and the advice to buy new for a beginner I was seriously considering an Artisan Toro 3000 or 4000 given that I thought it was assembled in the US.

I may still end up with a Chinese made machine, but it's always nice to know what other options exists and if it's feasible to save for those alternatives. I don't mind Taiwanese made machines.

Thanks,

John

[gnarls]

John, There is a used adler on the forum for sale.

[greg gomersall]

Maybe the silence from Jerry and Dave reflects the fact that they realize they have lost all credibilty they ever had and do not have a clue about trying to rebuild it? Greg

[neelsaddlery]

Hi John,

Even the Japanese names we know like Consew and Mitsubishi are built in China.

Campbell Bosworth, Union, and Randall are all built/refurbished in the US. The Classic by Luberto is also made in the US. All of them absolutely great machines. I have a Campbell and a No.9 (Daddy of the Classic) both are excellent machines. Juki still makes the 441, and I know a few folks who can modify it for leatherwork. Big Adlers are sill being assembled/made in the Czech Republic and sold by Weaver.

Anyone else chime in if you know of any.

Art

It was my understanding that a controlling share of Adler is now owned by a Chinese sewing machine company named Shanggong. I used to do business with Shanggong for some lightweight machines and went to visit them at their corporate offices in Shanghai about 4 years ago. This was right after the news broke that Adler had been bought by Shanggong. I had spoke with the general manager of Shanggong at that time, and they said that they planned to keep the assembly plant for the heavy machines in the Czech Republic for the time being, but that they had plans to move production of some of the lighter weight machines to China. A few years after that meeting, we heard of a joint venture in China where they were making the 267-373 in an assembly plant in China.

My advice to people who are trying to buy a machine that is free of China influence at this point is to buy an older used machine, as you simply cannot get clear of China at all when dealing with the question of serwing machines in today's day and age.

I know there are 3 Juki assembly plants in China, there are also many small parts manufacturers for companies like Juki, Seiko, and some others in China as well. I actually visited a factory in Shanghai that built parts for Juki overlock machines, and also spoke with an aluminum extruder in China that made the oilpans for Seiko machines.

I do not have any way of knowing for sure (short of calling my contact at Shanggong) but I would not be a bit suprised to learn that a staggering majority of parts for Adler sewing machines are now made in China. They may still be assembled in Czech Republic, but I would bet that a lot of parts for these machines are coming from China.

Just my two cents worth.

Kindest Regards,

Ryan O. Neel

Neel's Saddlery and Harness

Cowboy Serwing Machines

Oh, one more thing -- Mitsubishi sewing machines are all pretty much made by Highlead in China., Highlead is the OEM manufacturer for Mitsubishi.

Kindest Regards,

Ryan O. Neel

Neel's Saddlery and Harness

Cowboy Sewing Machines

[Henry]

All this talk of Chinese machines and comparative quality is enough to make one's head spin. My 2 cents worth is to buy an older second hand Adler 205 somewhere and you will be sewing trouble free for a very long time! And so will your descendants if you take care of it. There were a couple here somewhere on this site for $25-3000.00 recently which is a bargain.

If any of you readers want a truly modern American made machine I still have Tippmann Aerostitch machines for sale. They are supported with the best customer service in the industry and all parts are made in Fort Wayne, Indiana. You can talk to the designer/inventor anytime and you won't have to worry whether the parts are in stock or when they will be coming from China. I've sold about a doxen of these in the US and Canada and never heard a complant from anyone; just praise.

Thanks,

Henry Veenhoven

Toronto, Ontario

416-231-1870

Email me here!