Linen thread

[JamesR]

I am new to this site so let me say "Greetings to all."

I am an amateur leatherworker and would like to get better at hand stitching.

So far I have only used synthetic threads. I see that many of you use linen. Could someone tell me what are the objective reasons for using linen. I understand it can rot, but so can the leather. I would like to just buy a large roll of 5 cord (that is another question) and be done with it. I make quivers, knife sheaths, armguards. Any advice as to the pros and cons of linen would be most appreciated. Thank You.

Jim

[barra]

Quickuns off the top of my head.

Linen is a natural fibre and not subject to sunlight degredation like a lot of synthetics.

It is stronger when wet as the natural fibres swell up. Ever tried to undo a knot in a wet rope.

When hand stitching you need to get a nice long taper on the end of your thread so that when you wax it and place a needle on the end your not left with a bump behind the needle forcing you to use pliers every stitch. This taper can be made by scraping a knife blade over the end of the thread. You will then see fibres being pulled off. When waxed you have this tapered thread.

Linen Does not stretch. The stitches pull up tight and stay tight.

Linen is twice as strong as cotton.

Barra

Edited March 26, 2009 by barra

[celticleather]

I would totally endorse Barra's comments, and just add another thought.

A problem with synthetic threads is their strength! There is a danger that they can be pulled up so tight that the stitch cuts through the leather like a cheese-wire, and overtightening can also cause 'rippling' along the stitch line.

Using a natural fibre tends to teach a gentler touch, without compromising the strength of the finished product.

[JamesR]

I would totally endorse Barra's comments, and just add another thought.

A problem with synthetic threads is their strength! There is a danger that they can be pulled up so tight that the stitch cuts through the leather like a cheese-wire, and overtightening can also cause 'rippling' along the stitch line.

Using a natural fibre tends to teach a gentler touch, without compromising the strength of the finished product.

Celticleather,

I always wondered about that. It seems that synthetic would be more suitable to heavy nylon fabrics or webbing. I do pull my stitches tight and I probably have cut into the leather and weakened it.

I guess this issue of rot keeps coming up in my mind, although I wonder which rots first the leather or linen. The other thing is resistance to abrasion. If you can not set the stitches deep enough in a stitch groove than maybe the synthetic holds up better?

[tonyc1]

I always used linen in the Pearsons as I reckoned there was too much stretch in the synthetics and no stretch in linen, it was dead.. It is a long way from the thread clamp to the stitch with the Pearsons and there was a fair bit of stretch with nylon. I seemed to get a much more even stitch with linen thread.

I use a lot of nylon with the PVC webbing articles as it does stand up to abrasive wear and tear better than linen, cotton or polyester.

Tony.

[jimsaddler]

Quickuns off the top of my head.

Linen is a natural fibre and not subject to sunlight degredation like a lot of synthetics.

It is stronger when wet as the natural fibres swell up. Ever tried to undo a knot in a wet rope.

When hand stitching you need to get a nice long taper on the end of your thread so that when you wax it and place a needle on the end your not left with a bump behind the needle forcing you to use pliers every stitch. This taper can be made by scraping a knife blade over the end of the thread. You will then see fibres being pulled off. When waxed you have this tapered thread.

Linen Does not stretch. The stitches pull up tight and stay tight.

Linen is twice as strong as cotton.

Barra

I totally agree with Barra.

For hand sewing Linen takes a lot of beating. If properly waxed it will out last Synthetics. I've been arround long enough to see the difference now 10 to 20 years is all that you can reliably get from Synthetics. I've had to replace stitching that was done by me in as short a time as 7 years using Polyester Blended Thread. Whereas I have never had a Linen Thread fail in nearly 50 years of stitching. Also there are more Dead Sailors (below the surface stitches) with Synthetics owing to the stretch factor pulling tight (overtensioning) when the next stitch is done. Please remember to use "S" twist threads so that your stitches don't unravel as you sew.

Linen doesn't rot if prepared properly with Beeswax & Resin. Case in point My great Grandfather Sewed Traces in 1927 I put a new end on in 1979, the Stitches were so hard to remove after all of that time, only the Leather broke not the thread! He used 2 ounces of Resin to 3/4 lb of Washed Bees wax meleted to-gether (with a touch of Linseed oil or castor Oil in winter).

Rub this into the thread until the friction melts it into the thread. Oh yes point your thread first before waxing.

Remeber "S" twist thread not Z twist.

Kindest Regards.

Jim.

[SteveBrambley]

I've been experimenting, recently, with waxed linen thread and our Singer 45K25 and one of our 45Ksv100 corner/box stitchers. Not that they don't work fine with bonded nylon, I just thought that these machines would have been originally designed to use linen, so I was interested to see if there was any difference. I found that, in fact, the stitch does appear tighter and less likely to loosen when you back tack, and, though it may be my imagination, the machines do seem happier with the linen.

However, the pre-waxed thread, I have been using, does require a bit of adjustment on the tension, as the 'stickiness' of the wax tends to increase both the top and bobbin tensions, and the wax may cause other problems later.

Steve

[barra]

Whithout trying to divert the thread away from linen and hand stitching. While my stitcher handles the bonded threads fine, when I put linen thru it you can almost here a sigh of relief. It definately likes linen better.

Back to hand stitching with linen.

Barra

[Kevinjohnson]

What's the best source for linen thread? Also, refresh me on the cord to #'s conversion, ie. 6 cord=277 and so on. Most of the linen thread is prewaxed? Lastly, I asume that an Adler 205-400 would handle linen thread? Thanks KJ

[ChuckBurrows]

What's the best source for linen thread? Also, refresh me on the cord to #'s conversion, ie. 6 cord=277 and so on. Most of the linen thread is prewaxed? Lastly, I asume that an Adler 205-400 would handle linen thread? Thanks KJ

Not sure if it's the "best" source .......Linen Thread - 5 cord left or right hand twist is a good all purpose handsewing thread for pieces smaller than a saddle:

Campbell- Bosworth: http://campbell-bosworth.com/catalog/advan...?keywords=linen

- I have not used the less expensive Hungarian thread myself, but reports that I have received from others who have who's opinions on such matters I resepct, state that it just fine - a harder lay though - and costs half as much as the Barbour's. 5 cord left or right hand twist is a good all purpose handsewing thread for pieces smaller than a saddle or harness

Linen doesn't rot if prepared properly with Beeswax & Resin. Case in point My great Grandfather Sewed Traces in 1927 I put a new end on in 1979, the Stitches were so hard to remove after all of that time, only the Leather broke not the thread!

That brings back memories - I've "picked" a lot of old thread and have to agree that properly treated linen seldom rots and when either it or the leather does it's due to factors such as salt from sweat, acids such as urine, or mis-care such as over oiling - all are due to improper long term care