Refusing a job?

[wildrose]

I've had someone write me asking for a Bible cover. He has admitted he has OCD. (is obsessive compulsive) His requests bear this out (i.e.: "NO brown, anywhere, at all" as if this was a BIG deal for him) Also, it is a REALLY detailed project. I know I'm capable of doing it, just not sure I want to.

Thoughts?

[Luke Hatley]

send him to U K RAY...........

IF YOU HAVE YOUR DOUBTS..........DONT.

[HARVEY]

I've had someone write me asking for a Bible cover. He has admitted he has OCD. (is obsessive compulsive) His requests bear this out (i.e.: "NO brown, anywhere, at all" as if this was a BIG deal for him) Also, it is a REALLY detailed project. I know I'm capable of doing it, just not sure I want to.

Thoughts?

I suppose the question to ask yourself is: can I actually satisfy this customer? If he upfront acknowledges he's OCD and QUITE particular (i.e., demanding), either you best get the ground rules set from the get-go, or maybe pass. You emphasize, Holly, it's a REALLY detailed project.

How much is this customer/client going to eat your heart out, and, at how many hours' expense??

Harvey

Los Angeles

[mulefool]

after 25 years in business I know to pay attention to that little voice that tells me I don't really want that job. Ignore that voice at your peril! Chris

[FredF]

Wildrose,

I think if he has OCD in a clinical sense, then you run a pretty good risk of not being able to please this guy. On the other hand, if he is saying that he is OCD just to let you know that he is very particular then if you feel you can do the job, by all means jump on it. I think challenges like this force us to be more careful and do better work, which ultimately makes us better at what we do. If he is just extremely particular, I personally would take the challenge and work hard to make it the best bible cover out there. If he has OCD I would steer clear, but if you decide to take the job anyway, I would make sure to get paid up front so that you don't expose yourself to a loss. Just my 2 cents.

[Suze]

If yo don't think you can "Please" this man - tell him no

another thing

If he would bail on paying for the cover COULD you sell it to someone else? (like would it have HIS name or something on it that would make it impossiable to sell?)

Or would it be just too strange to sell?

If you could sell it elsewhere I think that I might give it a shot. If it was personlized in some way no I wouldn't do it.

[Timbo]

If you think you can do it and make him happy go for it...........but, tell him after all the details are worked out and it is done to his specifications any changes or things he does not like will cost him more. Be sure and get it paid 100% up front though and tell him that it is not refundable once the leather has been cut out for his project. Don't hesitate to tell him all this because he didn't have a problem telling you all of his "stuff" up front.

Personally I would pass.

Tim

[Timd]

I think the Tims are on the same wavelength on this. Definitely 100% up front, with artwork agreed on before cutting starts.

[Bree]

It's your business. You make the call on who you will produce custom work for and under what circumstances. I have turned down jobs... some with pretty substantial price tags and at times when I didn't know how I was going to make the mortgage payment. Nevertheless, they violated my sense of what is right and good for me in a pretty big way. Looking back, I feel good about standing up for my own values.

[wildrose]

I love a good challenge, that stretches my ability levels, which is why I'm considering it. Plus, the subject matter interests me. Plus a good friend sent him my way.

I do take 100% up front on jobs like this: custom, not able to be sold to anyone else. And I do a paper-plan/layout of what will be done before we agree on me doing it.

I'm confident enough about the design work (oak leaf corners, a cross, a knight, his name and Holy Bible); what worries me is the interior layout (pockets, notepad holder, pen holders) and the amount of Bible verses he wants. I cannot stamp them, because they are too long and need to be too small. I have a set of really tiny letters (I think they were for metalworkers), but they don't line up right all the time, and I don't want to do them for such a thing. So do I print it, then trace and carve the letters? Or do I just "free hand" it with fine tip fabric markers (which I've done before)?

And he wants the whole thing BLACK! ('cept some silver here and there)

Oh....and he doesn't even have the Bible yet....

[Jordan]

Personally I would not do it, from reading your post my little voice says there will be no pleasing this gentleman. But it sounds like you are intrigued by the challenge. When I do a cover I get the general items like name, cross, etc. from the person but I let them know from that point on my artistic muse takes over and they will get what it turns out to be. No complaints so far for the 7 bible covers I have done except 1 which the measurements they gave me were wrong. I let them know I would redo it if they let me have the bible for a day or two. Lazer lettering may be a way to get all the verses on it. I think there is someone on the board that does that kind of work.

[Johanna]

Holly- this job has a lot of red flags! If you decide to do it- triple whatever price you were going to ask, then see if he still wants it. I have learned there are some customers best turned away. When I didn't pay attention and listen to that little voice in my head saying "CAUTION!", I have wound up getting screwed.

Johanna

[bruce johnson]

I am sitting here wondering why a guy with osteochondritis dessicans (OCD - a cartilage development problem) is so hard to work with. A little Google work and I find that it stand for something else too. I would seriously talk to the guy. Tell him 100% up front, no changes after he approves the design, and let him know the limitations of what he is asking for (all the lettering). Make sure YOU have the Bible in hand and you measure it. Keep it until you are done. Bibles come in all sizes and even one batch to the next of the same ones you ordered last time may change size for no apparent reason. He has leveled with you about a problem he may have (or may just be a real picky customer and saying he is OCD). Level with him about the terms and then ask him point blank if he can hold up his end of the bargain. He might just be honest enough to say no, and then let it go. If he says yes, look at the money first.

[JohnBarton]

I have refused jobs before for a variety of reasons. None of them because the customer is picky. I find that for picky customers communication and progress pics work wonders.

With progress pics they feel involved and are able to calm themselves as to where the project is at.

I am dealing with a customer like this now. From the first moment he asked me for something he was on me constantly about this and that and why didn't I have the sketch to him already and why didn't I do the revision to the sketch and so on......

So I patiently explained the design process and sent him pix of all the drafts and that calmed him down. Now I have sent him two sets of progress pix on the case and he is over the moon. Still he reminded me that he didn't see one element that he asked for and I repsonded that we hadn't gotten that far yet.

I guess my point is that if people aren't jerks about it then I want to try and please them. If they want to order me around like a serf then I tell them to take their business elsewhere.

I see picky customers as a challenge.

One line that works for me is "I will do my best to interpret your desire according to my style". Most customers understand that this isn't Burger King, they don't get to have all their way but I will take their ideas and make an interpretation that I feel works best.

Once you satisfy a picky customer they then become your staunchest salespeople. And this is because they really want to promote the few people in their life who can "make them happy."

I think it's pretty easy to satisfy someone whose only criteria is "no brown" :-)

But I would get all the money up front if this is personalized piece. On pieces that are not personalized or weird then I can usually sell them to someone else - but anything with a name has to be paid up front and I give a satisfaction guarantee that if they don't like it then I will rework it or make another one if need be. In the last 60 cases I have had to remake 3 that weren't personalized and all three of the ones that weren't liked were then sold to others who were less picky. I haven't had to remake anyone's personalized case yet, knock on wood.

[JohnBarton]

I love a good challenge, that stretches my ability levels, which is why I'm considering it. Plus, the subject matter interests me. Plus a good friend sent him my way.

I do take 100% up front on jobs like this: custom, not able to be sold to anyone else. And I do a paper-plan/layout of what will be done before we agree on me doing it.

I'm confident enough about the design work (oak leaf corners, a cross, a knight, his name and Holy Bible); what worries me is the interior layout (pockets, notepad holder, pen holders) and the amount of Bible verses he wants. I cannot stamp them, because they are too long and need to be too small. I have a set of really tiny letters (I think they were for metalworkers), but they don't line up right all the time, and I don't want to do them for such a thing. So do I print it, then trace and carve the letters? Or do I just "free hand" it with fine tip fabric markers (which I've done before)?

And he wants the whole thing BLACK! ('cept some silver here and there)

Oh....and he doesn't even have the Bible yet....

I should have read through your whole post before replying.

For the Bible verses I would consider having those lasered. Pick a nice font that lasers well and then you can work it nicely with some tooling and coloring around each one.

Here is a picture of a case we recently did with the inscription lasered into the leather.

[UKRay]

Don't do it Holly.. and don't send him to me either! LOL

Ray

[badger]

The 'gut feeling' or 'little voice' telling you no is your subconcious.

You know more than you're aware of.

If it doesn't feel right then it probably isn't.

Personally I've never regretted listening to it and refusing work when I felt I had to.

Alarm bells on this one. Run away!

Cheers,

Karl

edit: Second thought...... Send him to Ray

Edited April 6, 2009 by badger

[tonyc1]

No, but there have been times when I wished that I had!!

Tony.

[celticleather]

No, but there have been times when I wished that I had!!

Tony.

Likewise! Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but it's always too late!

Terry

[whinewine]

Isn't the natural color of leather a variant of BROWN? To me that's an immediate red flag since he makes it a major demand from the beginning & one he can hang you up on. Even though he says he wants it all black, guess what, under the right type of lighting, a brownish cast could show through... Just on that part alone, I would kindly say 'thank you but no thank you'. I've learned that when things are phrased in a certain way (that would not be normally said), there's a very good chance that something's up. When I was shooting weddings, I was at a particular bride's house for the initial consultation, and out of the blue, the grandmother mentioned "Oh, I see you don't have a written contract..." It struck me as very odd, but I put it out of my mind & did the wedding anyway. Well, I bent over backward to do more to try to please the family, but it was never enough & it was never right: we ended up in small claims court where I recovered my monies and cut my losses.

When something doesn't seem right, 99% of the time, it isn't.

Run the other way.

russ

[hidepounder]

Holly,

You have to know when to "hold them" and when to "fold them"! This is a hand I would fold on. I would tell him very nicely that you're concerned about meeting his expectations which you feel may not be realistic. If he can convince you that he will be satisfied with your art, then fine, go for it. Just remember, it takes a long time to establish a good reputation and one person to ruin it! Send him to Peter Main!

Bob

[Johanna]

PS- I would make him buy the bible first. It is much easier to construct a bible cover to a specific book than to find a bible that fits in one we make. I was in a bookstore the other day looking at bibles (our 15 yr. old got confirmed yesterday!) and there were so many choices! I wasn't even looking at size.

~J

[wildrose]

After the fantastic replies, suggestions, and alot of thought on the matter, I decided to turn him down. I wrote a polite note to him about it, and wished him the best.

BTW, I realized I should've specified that OCD was an abbrevation for Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. I've known a few people who clinically had it, and for those who mentioned it: you're right, they often cannot be satisfied.

[Johanna]

OCD is really CDO with the letters in alphabetical order like they are supposed to be!!!

I have to go wash my hands now.

~J

[wildrose]

LOL Johanna! For one friend I had, it was lipstick. She had a pale complexion, but wore a REALLY bright lipstick, which she constantly applied after every cup of tea/coffee. (We went out to dinner together once/week). You could tell her cups by the marks on them!