3rd day with new machine - Not Good :-(

[KitKat]

My husband just purchased a Juki 1508NH. Its not a new machine, but a demo he bought off the floor. We have been having a heck of a time trying to sew anything with this machine. The machine will sew several inches and then some how or another the thread will begin to unravel and then it bunches up and only a strand or two is leav't in the needle. We have tried adjusting the tension on it (to give it more) that doesn't seem to work, it only makes it worse. I adjusted it down but it still is breaking/unraveling the thread. In checking the tension, it seems that when trying to pull the thread through, just to thread the machine is hard. Meaning its hard pulling it. I am using a size 24 leather needle along with 277 bonded polyester thread. Can someone help us? We just cant figure out what is wrong. BTW - This is happening when sewing through single layer of saddle skirting leather as well as trying to sew through doubled leather approx 3/8" thick. Moreso when trying to sew thicker leather. BTW - We are about out of scrap leather to play with

Thanks, Cheryl

Edited April 10, 2009 by KitKat

[UKRay]

It sounds like you might be trying to use thread that is too big for the needle - have you tried going down a thread size or two?

Ray

  KitKat said:

My husband just purchased a Juki 1508NH. Its not a new machine, but a demo he bought off the floor. We have been having a heck of a time trying to sew anything with this machine. The machine will sew several inches and then some how or another the thread will begin to unravel and then it bunches up and only a strand or two is leav't in the needle. We have tried adjusting the tension on it (to give it more) that doesn't seem to work, it only makes it worse. I adjusted it down but it still is breaking/unraveling the thread. In checking the tension, it seems that when trying to pull the thread through, just to thread the machine is hard. Meaning its hard pulling it. I am using a size 24 leather needle along with 277 bonded polyester thread. Can someone help us? We just cant figure out what is wrong. BTW - This is happening when sewing through single layer of saddle skirting leather as well as trying to sew through doubled leather approx 3/8" thick. Moreso when trying to sew thicker leather. BTW - We are about out of scrap leather to play with

Thanks, Cheryl

[2MadJacks]

That was exactly what I was thinking. It could also be that your needle is not in time with the shuttle hook. the shuttle hook should pick up the thread just above the eye of the needle while the needle is returning to the top and it sounds like it may be a bit late and possible splitting your thread. You might sew without the motor and watch to see if this is happening. I hope I ahven't misled you or confused you more that you already are. James

Art and Neel correct me if I am wrong

Edited April 10, 2009 by 2MadJacks

[CowboyBob]

Cheryl,

Before you start playing with timing you should try some #138 on this machine #277 is way too big,I've found that's the max it'll use on leather.

Bob

[2MadJacks]

Yes I definetly should have mentioned that timing adjustments is a last action. thatnks for clarifying that Bob.

James

[Luke Hatley]

I beleive that you are trying to do something that the machine is not

design to do. that is not a heavy duty Harness Machine

wind the bobbin with 69 thread and try 138 thread on top.

also you might try 92 on top . see how it sews with that....I M H O P.....

[Art]

Hi Cheryl,

First, that machine is not designed for that size thread. Second the needle is too small for 277, hence the fraying. Third the hook is rotary and not going to work well on anything over 138. That machine might handle 207 top and 138 bobbin at the max with a 24 needle. So go down to 138/92 or 138/138 with a 24 (180) or 23(160) and see how things work.

Art

  KitKat said:

My husband just purchased a Juki 1508NH. Its not a new machine, but a demo he bought off the floor. We have been having a heck of a time trying to sew anything with this machine. The machine will sew several inches and then some how or another the thread will begin to unravel and then it bunches up and only a strand or two is leav't in the needle. We have tried adjusting the tension on it (to give it more) that doesn't seem to work, it only makes it worse. I adjusted it down but it still is breaking/unraveling the thread. In checking the tension, it seems that when trying to pull the thread through, just to thread the machine is hard. Meaning its hard pulling it. I am using a size 24 leather needle along with 277 bonded polyester thread. Can someone help us? We just cant figure out what is wrong. BTW - This is happening when sewing through single layer of saddle skirting leather as well as trying to sew through doubled leather approx 3/8" thick. Moreso when trying to sew thicker leather. BTW - We are about out of scrap leather to play with

Thanks, Cheryl

[KitKat]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for trying to help. I did a search on here last night for thread etc. I managed to dig up a chart on needle/thread sizes to determine if the thread it to large/small. The thread I'm using slides VERY fast with the 24 needle while the 22 & 23 needles cause the thread to stick. I did manage to sew some 10/12 oz last night without it the thread coming apart after adjusting the tension even more, but it still frays it on any leather that is larger.

I purchased the thread at tandy. Its a big white spool. I'll take some pictures so you can better see what is going on and will also pickup some other thread today.

Thanks!

Cheryl

[KitKat]

Here are a bunch of pictures of some scraps I'm trying to sew. The lt brown is 8/10 oz and there is a rein I stitched for a while until it went haywire too. Can someone tell me if I'm reading the size right? It says 277, I could be wrong, as sadly I'm a newbie at all this... I am needing to sew martingales with this machine as well as putting together some reins. What thread size do I need for this?

Thanks once again!

Cheryl

Thread spool

Thread unraveled

Top stitching

Backside

Rein thread

Top of rein before it did this

[Art]

Hi Cheryl,

It looks (a little blurry) like BZ-277, that is Bonded Left Hand twist 277. This is not the correct thread for this machine, the hook won't handle it. Call LMC or Artisan or anyone on the board who has bonded left hand 138 and get a spool, just about anyone should have it. BTW, I have not had much luck with A&E (American and Erfid) thread.

Art

  KitKat said:

Here are a bunch of pictures of some scraps I'm trying to sew. The lt brown is 8/10 oz and there is a rein I stitched for a while until it went haywire too. Can someone tell me if I'm reading the size right? It says 277, I could be wrong, as sadly I'm a newbie at all this... I am needing to sew martingales with this machine as well as putting together some reins. What thread size do I need for this?

Thanks once again!

Cheryl

Thread spool

Thread unraveled

Top stitching

Backside

Rein thread

Top of rein before it did this

[kevinhopkins]

Hello Cheryl,

I can really appreciate the frustration that you feel. I think everyone has give you some great thoughts, especially about the thread sizes. As far as sewing machines are concerned, sewing with the right size thread and needle are fairly critical. It's not that the machine won't sew if the thread is too small, and the needle is too big, but if the thread is too big, you can just forget it. One way to see if the thread is the right size for your needle is to take a piece of thread about a foot and a half long, and just slide a needle onto it. THen hold one end of the thread in each hand, and lift one end of the thread high enough so that the needle will (hopefully) slide freely. If it doesn't, you'll need to reduce thread size. Or get a bigger needle. I think the others were right when they said that the machine really isn't designed to do what you're trying to do. But more than likely, when you get your thread and needle right, you'll be fine. Keep in mind too, that if there is any sort of small burr on the needle plate, needle, or any other pc of metal that the thread comes in contact with, it can cause similar troubles.

Best wishes,

Kevin

[TwinOaks]

Falling in with the "wrong thread size" crowd.....

I just recently got a Singer 66 and was trying size 69 thread in it. Almost IDENTICAL thread problems. My issue was that the BOTTOM thread was breaking because of abrasion at the shuttle/bobbin. The thread was too large for it. On ryano's suggestion I went 1 size down, and the problem went away.

[2MadJacks]

yep I believe so as well. For sure should be an easy fix. Good luck, James

[KitKat]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all your help. I went into KC and bought some 138 & 69 thread like everyone said. I'll sew some more on it tonight and post some more pic's and the results. I also stopped by the place we bought it from and were told to check the bobbin area for abrasions on the sharp pointed thing (Cant remember the exact name). If we found any to either file it down or bring the head back in so they can fix it. They said that could also cause this thread shredding problem. The machine is a Zuki LU-1508NH. We were told when we bought it that it will sew multiple layers of leather up to 1/2" thick. We even watched as they showed us. It is supposed to be the Xtra heavy duty kind. Anyway, I doubt I'll have to sew anything that heavy. Most of my stuff is small goods. Anyway, now wondering if we didn't make a HUGE mistake. Hubby wanted it to sew tarps and stuff with while it would also suit my leather needs as well. Oh well, I guess we can always pay this one off, and get another designed for the heavier stuff.

Thanks once again for all your help with this. It has certainly been pretty dog gone frustrating!!

Cheryl

[TwinOaks]

Some of the more common names/models to pick from for heavy stitching like tack, etc. that can also do materials like canvas, sails, tarps.....are Juki 441 (and clones- Artisan, LMC/Cobra, CowboySew), and Adler 205 (and clones), and perhaps a NeelsSaddlery model 5. All are BIG machines that will handle the jobs well.

[Cobra Steve]

Hi Cheryl, first of all if you purchased the machine right off of the floor, then it probably was never set up to sew leather, it is probably an upholstery machine. A machine that is set up for leather, is set up differently. The presser feet are smooth,so they won't mark the leather, the feed dog is buffed to take off the sharpness off the teeth, so it won't mark the leather as well. and of course you will want to use a 135X16 TRI needle. In my 36 years of being a mechanic, this type of machine will not sew 277 thread on top unless the basket, or plate have been modified to do so. Even if you do modify the basket or plate, there is no guaranty that it will work. There is not enough clearance in that type of hook system to allow the 277 thread to clear. It will get hung up somewhere. I do not recommend modifying this machine. Use a 207 on top and a 138 in the bobbin, this is where you will get the best results. There is a misconception regarding sewing 3/8 inch leather. Just because machines are advertized to sew this thick, they are not able to use heavier thread,(346,277, and sometimes 207), you see, the problem is not the thickness of the leather, but in fact, the weight of the thread. This is why you shouldn't try to sew skirts on this machine, because to do so, you will only be able to use 207 thread(at the max), and 207 thread is not strong enough to hold a saddle together, it will compromise the integrity of the saddle, and it will not last long. Bottom line, you need a heavy duty machine for this type of work, and save this one for your light to medium weight leather. Call me if you want more info, 1-866-962-9880, thanks, Steve

[KitKat]

Well... I have been testing this thing again, and I dont particularly care for what I am seeing. The thread looks like fishing twine in a scrap rein I've been practicing on. What I am seeing are more holes in the leather from the needle (24) than the thread. It just isn't displaying itself like I want. Anyway, It's just not very pretty.

The problem with the thread did fix itself by going to a 138 though. I'm happy about that!!

Cobra, I'm seeing pressure feet marks too. I've released some of the pressure but still need to release more.

I guess I need to check this xx xx places return policy huh!!

Thanks for all your help everyone!

[2MadJacks]

Thats what I would be doin. There are some good clones as Twinoaks mentions and they have fair prices as well. James