Lead Block

[esantoro]

Valerie Michael recommends using a lead block and not a steel anvil for doming the ends of solid rivets. Does anyone know where I can find such a lead block?

Thanks,

Ed

[UKRay]

I made mine myself, Ed. Lead will melt on the top of a stove - although it is best to do this job outside as the fumes are pretty noxious!

I just melt up scrap lead from the junk yard and pour it into a suitable mould. I have a range of old enamel pie dishes that seem to work pretty well for me. When the lead gets chewed up all you have to do is stick it back in your steel pot and put it back on the stove and repeat the process.

Not sure how Valerie is setting rivets with the lead block as I only use mine for punching holes and slots.

[esantoro]

I made mine myself, Ed. Lead will melt on the top of a stove - although it is best to do this job outside as the fumes are pretty noxious!

I just melt up scrap lead from the junk yard and pour it into a suitable mould. I have a range of old enamel pie dishes that seem to work pretty well for me. When the lead gets chewed up all you have to do is stick it back in your steel pot and put it back on the stove and repeat the process.

Not sure how Valerie is setting rivets with the lead block as I only use mine for punching holes and slots.

Another cool little obsession. I can use my backpacking stove and a cheap pot to do all this outside. Now I've got to do it just for the hell of it.

Ray, how thick is your lead block. I was thinking I could get an aluminum, foil, or tin meatloaf pan and make a 4" thick lead block.

Ed

[tonyc1]

I use an 8" ALUMINIUM frying pan and remelt whenever needed. I used one of my wife's cake tins years ago but it became soldered to the tin and couldn't get the lead out, so go aluminium.

Tony.

[UKRay]

I have two, Ed. One is for major thumping with crew punches and huge wad punches and the other I use for smaller tasks like punching oval holes in belts. The big critter is about 8" across, three inches thick and weighs as much as I want to move around. The little critter is about the same diameter but about 1" thick and doubles as a weight for all kinds of jobs. Both were made in an old enamel saucepan - I just poured less lead in for the smaller one. Easy stuff, but you really need to be so careful with boiling lead matie... It is hard to make briefcases when you have no fingers.

I would go for the thickest mould you can find and make sure the finished lead block will drop out easily. I had to destroy a pan to get the lead out once because it had a dent that locked the lead in place...

4" thick is overkill IMHO...

Another cool little obsession. I can use my backpacking stove and a cheap pot to do all this outside. Now I've got to do it just for the hell of it.

Ray, how thick is your lead block. I was thinking I could get an aluminum, foil, or tin meatloaf pan and make a 4" thick lead block.

Ed

[hidepounder]

Valerie Michael recommends using a lead block and not a steel anvil for doming the ends of solid rivets. Does anyone know where I can find such a lead block?

Thanks,

Ed

Ed,

I've been trying to follow along, but I just can't get my mind around what it is you're trying to do. Is the idea to use a solid rivet without the retainer ring? I'm curious because I just don't see how a rivet like that could have holding strength. Have you seen this done already? I understand not liking the copper or brass. Are you just looking for an alternative means of making an atachment. Would a cap rivet or chicago screw do what you need to do?

Also, I don't understand how or why you would dome a solid rivet with a lead anvil ILO steel......

Confused...

Bob

[esantoro]

I have two, Ed. One is for major thumping with crew punches and huge wad punches and the other I use for smaller tasks like punching oval holes in belts. The big critter is about 8" across, three inches thick and weighs as much as I want to move around. The little critter is about the same diameter but about 1" thick and doubles as a weight for all kinds of jobs. Both were made in an old enamel saucepan - I just poured less lead in for the smaller one. Easy stuff, but you really need to be so careful with boiling lead matie... It is hard to make briefcases when you have no fingers.

I would go for the thickest mould you can find and make sure the finished lead block will drop out easily. I had to destroy a pan to get the lead out once because it had a dent that locked the lead in place...

4" thick is overkill IMHO...

Ray,

How long approximately does the lead take to cool?

ed

[UKRay]

Ray,

How long approximately does the lead take to cool?

ed

The big one took ages before I could handle it without burning my fingers. Maybe an hour or two. I just left it in the yard and got on with something else for the rest of the morning.

Edited May 4, 2009 by UKRay

[esantoro]

I've started calling around for scrap lead. Junk yards are yielding nothing so far. But there is a source that charges about $1.50 a pound and free shipping for orders $99 and up. I'd have to ship from California to New York.

Is there a particular type of lead I should get?

http://www.rotometals.com/Lead-Ingots-s/32...CFQazsgodPx0Q9g

It seems like 40lbs of soft lead on Ebay might be the best bet:

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?s...o%3D2&fgtp=

I gave up one life and a few eyebrow hairs a while back with the lamp fixes. I've got a few more to spare. I can only wonder what project will come after this foray into molten lead. If I had it to do over again, I'd want to be born in medieval Europe.

Ed

[bustedlifter]

I've started calling around for scrap lead. Junk yards are yielding nothing so far. But there is a source that charges about $1.50 a pound and free shipping for orders $99 and up. I'd have to ship from California to New York.

Is there a particular type of lead I should get?

Ed

Go to Eastwood's website. They're an automotive specialty tool and product company. They sell a lead substitute for body work that works like lead but is far less toxic than actual lead.

[UKRay]

Ed, go find yourself an old fashioned plumber. These guys are hauling lead pipe out of buildings faster than a quick thing. They know the value of it but in my experience can usually be convinced to do a deal. I get all my scrap lead from plumbers and pay a fraction of the price because I haul it away myself.

40lb of lead? Half that would be too much for making a lead block. Are you planning on casting a few lead soldiers at the same time? <grin!>

Ray.

[esantoro]

Ed, go find yourself an old fashioned plumber. These guys are hauling lead pipe out of buildings faster than a quick thing. They know the value of it but in my experience can usually be convinced to do a deal. I get all my scrap lead from plumbers and pay a fraction of the price because I haul it away myself.

40lb of lead? Half that would be too much for making a lead block. Are you planning on casting a few lead soldiers at the same time? <grin!>

Ray.

I have the nasty habit of trying to get the best price, which requires larger quantities. I was thinking of making two molds and was thinking each one would require about 15 lbs.

I check out the plumbing angle.

After a bit more research, I see that there's soft lead that can be engraved with a fingernail and harder lead. I imagine that I should be looking for the harder stuff.

ed

[esantoro]

I have the nasty habit of trying to get the best price, which requires larger quantities. I was thinking of making two molds and was thinking each one would require about 15 lbs.

I check out the plumbing angle.

After a bit more research, I see that there's soft lead that can be engraved with a fingernail and harder lead. I imagine that I should be looking for the harder stuff.

ed

I was at a 99 cent store the other day and found the perfectly shaped aluminum pan for lead block.

After looking at some You Tube videos on smelting lead and reading about the health hazards, I'm not terribly crazy about the idea of heating the stuff to boiling and then pouring. But I am intrigued by the idea of cutting lead bars into pieces that will fit in the aluminum pan and melting with a blow torch attached to a small propane bottle. The lead doesn't need to be taken to a full boil, just heated long enough so that it all flows together inside the pan. The whole process should take just a few minutes and clean up would be negligible.

Is there any reason I shouldn't go with the blow torch?

Ed

Edited May 11, 2009 by esantoro

[leatherjunkie]

I was at a 99 cent store the other day and found the perfectly shaped aluminum pan for lead block.

After looking at some You Tube videos on smelting lead and reading about the health hazards, I'm not terribly crazy about the idea of heating the stuff to boiling and then pouring. But I am intrigued by the idea of cutting lead bars into pieces that will fit in the aluminum pan and melting with a blow torch attached to a small propane bottle. The lead doesn't need to be taken to a full boil, just heated long enough so that it all flows together inside the pan. The whole process should take just a few minutes and clean up would be negligible.

Is there any reason I shouldn't go with the blow torch?

Ed

Is there any

blow torch is overkill.

i use a steel pot on my coleman camping stove (converted to propane) to melt lead.

after i get the lead to melted to a liquid form i will skim off the junk that is floating on top, i use a long handled cooking spoon to do this.

then i use a ladle to transfer the liquid lead to the my muffin tin. i do this because i cast my own bullets for black powder shooting. the muffin tin size lead will fit in the melting pot that i use for making bullets.

i can also melt wheel weights without any troubles this way.

its a little slower to melt lead this way but it works just fine for me.

you also want to use the coleman stove outside preferable no wind to little wind. this way the heat of the flames will be on the pot more than if there was a lot of wind.

[barra]

http://www.torbandreiner.com/images/French..._gas_cooker.jpg

I have a gas cooker like this. They are darn cheap and can be found in camping stores, Wallyworld type stores or Asian groceries. In Aust they can be found for less than $20 and the gas cartridges are also cheap. I stick my lead in a pan and it melts together fairly quickly. When the lead block gets too mangled from using punches I just panel beat it with a ball pein hammer. Maybe once a year I will remelt it.

I also have some small lead blocks that I leave in it's own little pan and use these as weights to hold items like patterns steady. just like using shot bags. Lead can be scrounged fairly easily from scrap metal merchants, car batteries, plumbers but my favourite is find the fisherperson in the family and steal their sinkers.

Barra

Edited May 11, 2009 by barra

[esantoro]

blow torch is overkill.

i use a steel pot on my coleman camping stove (converted to propane) to melt lead.

after i get the lead to melted to a liquid form i will skim off the junk that is floating on top, i use a long handled cooking spoon to do this.

then i use a ladle to transfer the liquid lead to the my muffin tin. i do this because i cast my own bullets for black powder shooting. the muffin tin size lead will fit in the melting pot that i use for making bullets.

i can also melt wheel weights without any troubles this way.

its a little slower to melt lead this way but it works just fine for me.

you also want to use the coleman stove outside preferable no wind to little wind. this way the heat of the flames will be on the pot more than if there was a lot of wind.

I wouldn't mind buying a camping stove, but I was thinking that the blow torch would be the simplest method, especially for resurfacing the lead block periodically.

My first idea was to use my backpacking stove but soon realized that that is a terrible idea as there is a good chance the pot would topple over and all the dangerous sorts of scenarios to follow.

Even though the blow torch is overkill, is it a doable idea, especially considering the simplicity of operation and nearly absent cleanup required? I have kind of always wanted to get a blow torch. You, know just to have one on hand.

ed

[leatherjunkie]

I wouldn't mind buying a camping stove, but I was thinking that the blow torch would be the simplest method, especially for resurfacing the lead block periodically.

My first idea was to use my backpacking stove but soon realized that that is a terrible idea as there is a good chance the pot would topple over and all the dangerous sorts of scenarios to follow.

Even though the blow torch is overkill, is it a doable idea, especially considering the simplicity of operation and nearly absent cleanup required? I have kind of always wanted to get a blow torch. You, know just to have one on hand.

ed

well i used a cutting torch to meld down a big block of lead that a buddy found for me.

it melted the lead real quick. but the lead hardened up quickly once it hit the pan that i was melting it into.

to keep lead molten long enough to pour into the mould that you want to use, i still think the stove idea would be the best bet.

also its safer because you are not trying to hold the torch under the melting pot and pouring into the mould at same time.

a cooking stove or gas cooker that barra suggested is going to be $20.00 - $35.00 . oxygen and acetene bottles plus the hoses and other atachments that you need to operate it are going to be in the $200.00 plus range.

i think that you will have troubles melting part of the lead to resurface it. there for i suggest that you remelt the entire block. depending on how much lead you used for your block it wont take that long to melt it down again.

it only takes about 10 mins for me to get 10 lbs of lead melted and ready to start my bullet casting process.

just drop it in the mould that you used, heat it up till the block becomes liquid then let it cool.

Edited May 12, 2009 by leatherjunkie

[esantoro]

well i used a cutting torch to meld down a big block of lead that a buddy found for me.

it melted the lead real quick. but the lead hardened up quickly once it hit the pan that i was melting it into.

to keep lead molten long enough to pour into the mould that you want to use, i still think the stove idea would be the best bet.

also its safer because you are not trying to hold the torch under the melting pot and pouring into the mould at same time.

a cooking stove or gas cooker that barra suggested is going to be $20.00 - $35.00 . oxygen and acetene bottles plus the hoses and other atachments that you need to operate it are going to be in the $200.00 plus range.

i think that you will have troubles melting part of the lead to resurface it. there for i suggest that you remelt the entire block. depending on how much lead you used for your block it wont take that long to melt it down again.

it only takes about 10 mins for me to get 10 lbs of lead melted and ready to start my bullet casting process.

just drop it in the mould that you used, heat it up till the block becomes liquid then let it cool.

Your replies are helping me think through this process. Thank you.

I was thinking of getting an inexpensive propane torch, $20 sans propane bottle. I was thinking of using a 6" dia. pie tin of crushable aluminum and going about 2" thick. ten pounds seems about right. I was thinking of placing lead chunks in the pie tin and torching them there directly, obviating the need to pour anything.

I always like to invest in tools and equipment that have multiple uses. It would be nice to have a portable camping stove on hand.

Ed

[leatherjunkie]

propane torch is not what i call a blow torch.

to me a blow torch is a oxygen acetene cutting torch.

the propane torch may not be able to get lead hot enough to melt all the way without using lots of propane. i only went through one 1 pound bottle of propane on my camp stove to melt 20 pounds of lead. you have a bigger area of heat with a camp stove verses a propane torch that only centers the heat in small area

always remember to melt lead in a well ventilated area. best place is outside.

the lead fumes are bad for you.

just put the lead chunks into your pie tin and put on the camp stove. let cook. after its melted remember to skim off the sludge on top. this is the contaminated stuff and is junk. the top should look like a mirror after you are done skimming off the junk. it may haze over but this is ok. now let it cool and then dump the pie tin over on your work bench and you have your block. also be aware of the health concerns when handling lead. i always wear gloves while melting lead. i try to handle the lead with gloves(even when im done casting it) to reduce the lead coming into contact with skin. you may want to consider this when you are using the block.

[barra]

The gas stove also gets used for the coffee pot, creaser heater and oil warmer.

[esantoro]

It is precisely the health concerns that have been making me think of using a torch instead of boiling and pouring, my thinking being that the torch would be the quickest and most efficient method, requiring the least amount of exposure during setup and cleaning, especially for the basic needs of making a simple block.

Are the health concerns serious even when using a cold, hardened lead block? I'm not going to be using the block daily, nor am I going to be smelting the lead more than a few times a year, if that.

In my research, I came across the debate on whether a propane torch should be called a blow torch.

Another thing I came across is the warning not to smelt lead over concrete and wondered why this is.

Ed

propane torch is not what i call a blow torch.

to me a blow torch is a oxygen acetene cutting torch.

the propane torch may not be able to get lead hot enough to melt all the way without using lots of propane. i only went through one 1 pound bottle of propane on my camp stove to melt 20 pounds of lead. you have a bigger area of heat with a camp stove verses a propane torch that only centers the heat in small area

always remember to melt lead in a well ventilated area. best place is outside.

the lead fumes are bad for you.

just put the lead chunks into your pie tin and put on the camp stove. let cook. after its melted remember to skim off the sludge on top. this is the contaminated stuff and is junk. the top should look like a mirror after you are done skimming off the junk. it may haze over but this is ok. now let it cool and then dump the pie tin over on your work bench and you have your block. also be aware of the health concerns when handling lead. i always wear gloves while melting lead. i try to handle the lead with gloves(even when im done casting it) to reduce the lead coming into contact with skin. you may want to consider this when you are using the block.

[Elliot]

Another thing I came across is the warning not to smelt lead over concrete and wondered why this is.

Ed

If you spill the melted lead on concrete, it will turn the water in it to steam and blow up sending hot lead and chunks of concrete in all directions. This makes for a very bad day!!!!!!!

[esantoro]

And I thought I was taking risks with my lamp fixes. Thank you for this explanation. Thank you very, very much............Though now I'm quite curious to see what this will look like.

Ed

Another thing I came across is the warning not to smelt lead over concrete and wondered why this is.

Ed

If you spill the melted lead on concrete, it will turn the water in it to steam and blow up sending hot lead and chunks of concrete in all directions. This makes for a very bad day!!!!!!!

[UKRay]

The gas stove also gets used for the coffee pot, creaser heater and oil warmer.

...and remelting the beeswax blocks occasionally -when they get all shredded up and manky! I must remember to drop a bit of resin in next time. Just got an amazing cast iron double cauldron... hubble bubble... sorry, where was I?

Get a stove Ed. Take it outside and boil up your lead somewhere where the stove can't topple over and you won't kick it. It doesn't take long and probably won't kill you any faster than living in New York. Just don't breath the nasties. Oh yes, do scrape the crud off the top of the pot or you'll have a rough surface to your lead block. No problem. Nice and easy. Now go and mug a plumber like everyone over here does. Shipping lead from California, indeed - Doh! I can see I'm just going to have to come over there and do it for you! <grin!>

[electrathon]

Are the health concerns serious even when using a cold, hardened lead block? I'm not going to be using the block daily, nor am I going to be smelting the lead more than a few times a year, if that.

Another thing I came across is the warning not to smelt lead over concrete and wondered why this is.

Yes, even handling hardened lead can be an issue. Hard lead like tire weights are safer than soft lead though. As long as you wash your hands after handling it the risk is minimal.

There is a posability of the concrete exploding. VERY minimal. I have spilled lead and things far hotter on concrete and have never seen it happen.

If you need lead just go to the local tire shop and buy the scrap tire weights from one of the guys. Do not ask in front, walk in the back door and ask one of the workers.