Holster Mouth Reinforcement

[RVM45]

Guys I came across these neat flat springs. Working in a pair; they are supposed to hold purses shut. (They're 3.5".)

http://www.leatherunltd.com/hardware/findings/GA0806.jpg

Could they be used to hold an empty holster ( generally Inside the Waistband) mouth open for reholstering?

It wouldn't reach all the way around the mouth, but if bent into a "U" and sandwiched between two layers of leather, and centered on the top midline of the pistol...

Shouldn't it tend to force the lips open?

What do y'all think?

.....RVM45

Edited May 29, 2009 by RVM45

[Lobo]

A spring is made by tempering steel (heating to very nearly the melting point, then quenching in water or oil). This hardens the metal significantly and causes it to retain its shape, and return to original shape when bent.

Forcefully bending the tempered spring to a new shape will create stress within the metal, resulting in weakening the metal and making it more subject to breakage.

In order for a spring to work as intended the steel must be formed to the shape required, then tempered. For the purposes you have proposed, this would make it very difficult to install into a holster.

Hope this helps.

[TwinOaks]

I disagree with Lobo's post.

Bending a spring to the point of making a crease will weaken it, certainly, and repeated "maximum flexion" can damage it. To simply bend a spring doesn't hurt it.....otherwise it wouldn't be much use as a spring would it?

Perfect example: I'm looking at a shedding blade we use for horses. If I unclasp the little thing on the handle, it straightens out. Refold and hook, repeat. No damage. While it's hooked at the handle, it's got a teardrop shape and resists squeezing pressure.

I've been looking for some flat spring steel strips to use in holsters...not really searching, just keeping an eye out...for this very reason. As long as the spring isn't flexed to the point of failure, it should return to shape, or at least try to do so. Taking a piece of flatspring and folding to fit inside the mouth band is exactly what Andy Arratoonian (Horseshoe Leather) does. So long as the mouth of the holster isn't crushed flat (I'm thinking that good molding and multiple thicknesses of leather kinda help with that) the spring isn't damaged. As far as inserting the spring in the holster, well it isn't all that difficult. You simply sew the mouth band on three sides, then insert the piece of spring, then finish the stitching. No special forming to it. A flat spring tries to stay flat, and when encased in leather, will tend to try and make the leather flat. If it's sewn in a loop (mouth of the holster) it's gonna try to keep it open. Just like the shedding blade I mentioned earlier.

Back to the question of the springs for purses....It's hard to say whether they'd work or not. The thickness of the spring is going to be the determining factor. If it's too thin, it won't provide much opening pressure, if too thick, you'll ruin it trying to bend it.

Then there's the possibility of just sewing in a strip of plain ol' steel and when you form the holster you just bend the crap out of the steel and presto, it's steel reinforced.

[BOOMSTICKHolsters]

The springs in question don't look like they will work, IMO. It looks like they are curved down the entire length so that they dynamically flex and hold open, or snap shut. I imagine it would be fairly difficult to press them into service in this particular case.

[Lobo]

Well, once again there appears to be a difference in opinions. On one hand we have the science of metallurgy, and hundreds of years of experience in practical applications. On the other hand, we have what a few people would like for a piece of hardened steel alloy to do when manipulated in such a manner that the structural strength is compromised.

Any piece of steel alloy, properly hardened and tempered to serve as a spring, cannot be re-shaped or re-formed without critical damage to the metal structure (at least, not without re-heating and re-tempering for the required application).

Any piece of an appropriate steel alloy, shaped to the contours desired, then properly tempered, will retain that shape indefinitely. Forcefully changing that shape causes work-hardening of the affected areas and weakens the structure at those areas affected.

There is no way around this point. If one wishes to cause inherent damage to a critical piece, then use that piece for a specific purpose, the results cannot be counted on for reliable service.

I don't claim to be a metallurgist. I don't claim to be an engineer. But an elementary understanding of the materials and processes tells me that one doesn't have to graduate from barber college to understand this level of the sciences involved.

Best regards.

Edited May 31, 2009 by Lobo

[Shorts]

What seems like it'd be of help is whatever strip of metal used as the creamy filling will be supported on both sides by a layer of leather. I would imagine (I did not sleep at a Holiday Inn last night) that would (help) maintain the structural integrity of the steel to the degree it is installed.

As for those particular purse strips, I don't think they would work as well as a straight basic strip.

[Dwight]

Personally, . . . I think this whole topic reminds me of a Democrat in congress, . . . inventing a problem so he can take credit for the "solution".

I don't know how many IWB holsters I have made in the last 4 or 5 years, . . . but I have yet to put any steel, aluminum, kydex, or anything else around the mouth as a stiffener, . . . except leather.

And no one has brought the thing back saying it collapsed and wouldn't stay open.

Not saying that no one wants the end product, . . . I just think that the "need" is very much over rated.

May God bless,

Dwight

[TwinOaks]

Agreed Dwight, I primarily use just leather. However, one of my customers wanted Kydex around the mouth of the holster.....so Kydex it was.

Also, it doesn't hurt to know a little more about something is done so if one should ever get the request, one can make an item to a customer's specs.

[LeatherCaptain]

And so, the question becomes, how does one reinforce the mouthband of an IWB holster using Metal or Kydex? What are you guys out there who reinforce the mouthbands doing?

...oh, and add pics.

[okie44]

And so, the question becomes, how does one reinforce the mouthband of an IWB holster using Metal or Kydex? What are you guys out there who reinforce the mouthbands doing?

...oh, and add pics.

Well I was going to stay out of this, seeing as it is already getting contentious, but since you asked, here it is. I'll try to stay out of the spring controversy. A while back, on of the members here (can't remember who) suggested using the tough, flexible plastic used for packaging things. Well, I tried it, and I have been impressed. I have made several holsters using this as additional reinforcement, and so far, I am very pleased with the results. Thanks for the tip. If you get into a situation where you need to stitch across the material, it is much less a problem than trying to pierce metal. Thin spring might work, but ihas been hard for me to find anything suitable. Unless you use very stiff metal, there is a chance of it getting mashed closed, and bent. So far , the plastic works great, and resists taking a permanent bend, even when the holster lips are forced closed.

I don't have any construction photos, but here are pics of a completed holster, and the material I am using. This holster has been in constant use as my daily carry, and has the nicks and wear to show for it.

[Lobo]

I like the plastic approach. Very do-able without having to worry about bending tempered metal (and the likely results described).

Good idea, sir.