Artistic vs. Mechanical

[resqman]

I would say both. I have been beating on stamping tools for about a year. So far I have been using patterns for all my layout. My mechanical side of this craft has improved but is still far from where I want it to be. Certainly I can use the 7 basic tools and beat the leather until there is a recognizable shape. But the artistic side of doing it well enough that you overlook the individual stamping tools and look at the design still needs more practice.

As a scout leader, I have the opportunity to introduce leatherworking to a number of boys. They tend to be much more pleased with their work than I am with my work. Their expectations are at a different level. They are happy to have something where there was nothing. The purely mechanical side of it is often enough for their first several pieces. Then the art of doing it well comes into play and they either chaulk it up to another introductory experience or decide to spend more time and improve their skill.

[ArtS]

I'd say both. It depends on the piece that I'm creating. Some things I get to use my artistic skills and add beauty to function. Others end up being more function. I used to do a lot of artwork but now I try to direct that creativity into my leather work.

Art

[outcast]

I say probably both, but I lean heavily towards mechanical. When I build something it will serve a function. Of course I will do what I can to make it look as good as I can make it, but if it is pure art with no function, I really have no use for it.

[FredF]

I think anyone who creates (or enjoys creating) things that have a visual art component to them could be considered "artistic". It's not so hard to see why someone seeing such a thing might think the person that made it is artistic (even if the object made was copied and making it was purely mechanical). The person seeing this would never know that. I don't think this is the same as being an artist though.

I think the Mechanical side is the means to the end. Drafting, Handling the tools, assembling, stitching, finishing, etc. are all mechanical functions.

The artist, I think, is the person who has the vision, and can bring that vision to fruition through a complete mastery of the mechanical functions.

With regards to "form follows function", it is exactly that: Function is the purpose for the design. Form, is how we make that design appealing. It does not mean that form should be ignored. It shouldn't. Good design doesn't ignore form. It understands the place of both. I don't think an ornamental stitch line is wrong, anymore than ornamental carving is wrong. I don't think a table that can support a 2000 lb. fishtank is good design, if it is not pleasing to look at. It could do both.

Ed, there is no way you can say that your bags are only functional. They are functional, yes, but they are also aesthetically pleasing, and that is no accident. You put some thought into that. Made some choices, both is shape and color. Othewise there would be no practical reason to choosing brass over bronze over stainless. There would be no reason for color choice, the shape of the flap, the proportions of some of the elements, etc. There is definetly art involved in these cases.

Just my two cents.

Esantro, that is a really nice bag. I spent some time checking out your website, and all of your bags are very nicely done. It also is a great example of something being very funtional, but nice to look at when its done. The simple lines, clean edges, solid construction,and stitching all combine to make an nice piece. Do you consider your bags artistic, or simply funtional?

[yan]

Everything I used to do was pure function. Need something to hold my hammer: grab a piece of leather drill a couple of hole, put a couple of rivets and there you go: a ugly but functional ''hammer holder''

One of the raison I am on this forum is to removed the ''ugly'' part of the last statement and eventually put a ''nice'' instead

[nobearsyet]

I'm definitely more of the Mechanic than the artist, in fact carving and toolling have never really been my bag, although I can do them both, but maybe it's just my personal taste, but I like stuff plane anyways so where do I really fall into the mix? Does not enjoying doing the tooling and carving that most love so much make me any less artistic? Or does coming up with things on my own that the last guy definitely never thought of make me more so? Difficult question this one is, hmmmmmmmmmmm........... now you've really got me thinking.

[FredF]

Nobears,

The carving and tooling is not necessarily artistic. There may be someone who is very skilled at handling tools, who can stamp and carve better than most, that may not necessarily have any artistic inclination at all. There are many companies that manufacture goods, that are designed by an artistic person (a designer). Some of these people that manufacture are mechanical, more than artistic, and can handle the tools with great skill, but not be able to come up with the ideas themselves. There are people of ideas, and there are people of skill (and there are people of both as well). So carving or no carving don't make you artistic. Artistic is having an inclination for coming up with and developing, ideas for artsy types of things.

Ok, I'm done waxing philosophical on this artistic / Mechanical conversation. It's making me think too much, and I'm starting to wonder if I know what the H. I'm saying! Although I'm pretty sure that I do.....

I'm definitely more of the Mechanic than the artist, in fact carving and toolling have never really been my bag, although I can do them both, but maybe it's just my personal taste, but I like stuff plane anyways so where do I really fall into the mix? Does not enjoying doing the tooling and carving that most love so much make me any less artistic? Or does coming up with things on my own that the last guy definitely never thought of make me more so? Difficult question this one is, hmmmmmmmmmmm........... now you've really got me thinking.

[ETW Grumpy]

Great topic. I used to do some drawing when I was a kid, but my biggest problem now is getting what I see in my head on paper and then on leather. Google images is my friend. I am mainly mechanical with a little artistic motivation.

[CarvedOn]

It's like dancing, you can tell the difference between a natural dancer and a mechanical dancer. Every step may be perfectly executed, but there is a liquid flow that is missing. You never know it is missing until you have seen the natural in action. An intrinsic part of that flow is that the item is beautifully put together. The other part is the artistic part. It is one of those things that you look at and know it was crafted by a master, you just are totally in awe. Something that beautiful is spellbinding and rare.

I am first and foremost and artist. I love to work leather because I can put my original designs on something that in the end is functional and beautiful. Now, if that doggone swivel knife just didn't have a mind of it's own.........

[UKRay]

Interesting topic, but hard to put into a personal perspective.

I don't see myself as an artist and I'm not much of an engineer either but I do see myself as an innovator. I like to take very old machines and having given them plenty of thought, find skilled engineers to alter them and make them more efficient and even do things they weren't built for. I also like to explore new ways of producing good looking leather goods that take them one step further than the original concept. I can use a swivel knife and hand tools well enough but feel they are simply there to enhance the beauty of the original design.

I suppose that makes me mechanical... or does it?

Ray

[Petsha]

i'll answer your questuion with another question it might have already been said did't had the time to read all the posts

next to tool X to do job X is the factor skill involved? ofc it is and you also even if you only copy patterns if you give your own twist to it use skill that not every one could use (unless of training ect) it is artistic.

[Spence]

I kept away from this thread because I'm relatively new to leather, although I've got 50+ years of fancy ropework in my back pocket. My early years as a "Ropeworker" were spent in the Navy, where I was considered a "Marlingspike Sailor." I eventually, after 10 or so years, admitted to being an "Artisan" - not an artist (???). After getting comfortable with a particular method of doing a particular project, I would find myself adding variations to what I was doing and covering the juncture with a knot of some sort. After about 20 years, I was contracted to restore some 17th century ropework that had been stored in a damp basement.

My introduction to leatherwork was quite by accident. I was at a dog show with a friend, helping her with her 'crew' of German Shepherds. She was bragging on a very expensive, tiny show lead that was braided with kangaroo lace. She reached inside a crate to clip the lead on one of her very calm dogs and before dog cleared the crate, the lead had come apart at both ends. That's when I decided to explore this very addictive craft.

I'm starting to get bored with the U1, O1, etc. and wondering how I can incorporate a Matthew Walker knot into the middle of a 5', 12 str dog lead. I will do it, someday. I'm also branching out into what I affectionately call 'flatwork' now and my head hurts from the myriad of ideas that are crashing around inside that vacuum. All this, while attempting to soak up as much knowledge as I can from others on this board.

While I am learning to 'tool' the leather, my partner, the true Artist, is doing the design work. Our brainstorming sessions are almost frantic and quite funny actually. We finally started taking notes and the stack is growing. We are more into the abstract than the photo-type artwork. I can look at one of her abstract designs every day for 7 days and visualize 7 subtly different designs. All I have to do now is get my hands to catch up with her designs.

So, after all is said and done, I would have to say a particular project would have to start life in the artistic part of the brain, move to the mechanical side and end up back in the artistic part, where it will flourish - one hopes. It works for me.

[hivemind]

It's at least 80% mechanical for me - I'm an engineer brain (witness that I found it necessary to come up with a number for my opening statement). However, I strongly feel that something well and cleanly made it it's own art. There's beauty in something that does exactly what it's intended to do without a lot of embellishment or waste. Your carving can be beautiful, but if you can't finish an edge smoothly or line up a pocket or do even, straight stitching - go be a painter.

But as said already, it's the true masters that combine both.

[DaveT]

I'd suggest that leatherwork is equal parts mechanical and artistic. You have to be a mechanical person to build something that is functional, works well, and does the job in a simple, elegant manner. The artistic part is making it look good too. For example, a shaker style woodworking. They didn't have to build tapered legs, elegant turnings, etc. for purely functional items. Yet they took simple ideas and made them beautiful for the joy of doing it. In my mind that makes them artists. I've got some purely functional knife sheaths I've made for my bench knives. They are ugly, but they work. Pure mechanical items. I've also got some that are just as functional, but are beautiful, those are more artistic. Guess which ones I like better?

A long time ago I was given a quote by my Grandfather (A good woodworker). "A laborer uses his hands, a craftsman uses his hands and his head. An artist uses his hands, head, and heart." I've seen the quote attributed to several people, but it sure makes sense, whomever said it. Grandpa also told me, "If you aren't proud enough of something to put your name on it, don't sell it or give it away." Remembering that always makes me do my best.

Dave T.