Tandy Eco Flo dye

[Daggrim]

Aargh! I'm having a wretched time using this new dye. It has a very weak coverage, and if I use a wool applicator, it foams up and leaves speckles. The strokes don't seem to blend as well as alcohol base dyes, but I made it work by giving about 3 extra rubdowns with dye on a cloth rag, but that's too many passes. I'm at the point of considering this stuff unuseable. I'd rate the difficulty of using it at a 7 on a ten scale. Any advice?

Doug

[electrathon]

Buy Fiebings dye from someone other than Tandy.

[Tina]

Or try Angelus dyes, I Love'm...They also have a line with 4 finisher too, ust scroll down on the linked page:

http://turtlefeathers.net/text/angelus/dye.html

[kevinhopkins]

Fiebings or Angelus are far superior in my opinion..... (I have both)

Kevin

[Windom Leather]

I've decided to stick with the fiebings. Never tried the angelus. But I may have too just to see. And I have used the eco flo all in one and Im not too impressed. Hard to get rid of overlap lines and you still have to use another finish over it. I use a cotton cloth to apply. Is there a trick to that stuff or is it just the way it is?

[Todd]

The Eco Flo is total crap. It goes on uneven and wears and fades at a rediculously fast rate. Run, don't walk away from this product.

[CitizenKate]

Eco-flo is actually more light-fast than Fiebings (see this thread posted awhile back). However, I do agree that one thing I don't care for about EF is how much of it you have to put on to get the amount of color you want.

So now I'm testing Angelus, and so far I'm finding it to be better than Fiebings. It is more light-fast than Fiebings, and almost as light-fast as EF. And I like how much more intense it is; I can get the intensity I want with very few applications, and sometimes I even need to reduce it.

Kate

[electrathon]

This whole issue really bothers me. You need to understand, I really like Tandy. The name floods me with childhood memories of my Dad and leatherwork that he did. Most of us here like Tandy. The store managers are almost all great. I have a local store that I love to go to. Here is the trouble, they sell mainly crap. For 50+ years they sold dye that people like that worked well and lasted, now they decide to sell low quality junk that most people are not satisfied with the quality of. This is true with so many of their product lines. Look at what horid things they have done with Craft tools... the list goes on and on. They have a loyal customer base that they are trashing. I know they feel there is really no other choice so they can force crap on us, but at some point they need to sell what we want, what we will gladly stand in line to get.

OK, I am going to stop ranting for now.

[Daggrim]

Okay, nice to get a reality check about the dye. I can easily switch to Fiebings, but I just wanted to see if I was missing something about EF. I have heard good things about Angelus, too.

I've relied on my local Tandy for years, and I've been pleased with everything else. I've gotten outstanding support and a great deal of help and encouragement from the staff.

So, thanks again , forum members for the replies.

Doug

[Rayban]

I tried Eco Flo one time and that was it....but I won't give up on Tandy.....I switched to the Feibings Professional Oil Dye they sell and I'm really liking it......I still miss the Pro Dye I used to get there tho.....

[celticleather]

I feel for you guys and gals in the US, who are unable to get decent spirit-based dyes from Tandy. I don't use Tandy here in the UK, because their prices are way too high, and I can buy Fiebings Professional dyes from a number of suppliers.

I guess they have fallen foul of 'elf'n'safety' legislation in some parts of the US. I don't think you'll achieve much by just stopping buying the Eco-Flo dyes - although Tandy may notice the drop in sales. I think you need to let them know why you are not buying the product, so that they can work on improving it or coming up with an alternative.

Just my observation!

[Ancientwolf]

Its all about the profit for them, and lots of it. If you think its crap, they already knew its crap. Back when we first had these introduced to us before they were made public we saw this coming. A portion of their managers will tell you up front theres little confidence in it, the rest will goat you into "working differently" with it, and some may even blame a bad batch or your lack of skill (buy more, practice more!).

The stuff is awsome in a controlled environment. Just dont subject it to light, water, perspiration or the scrutiny of a perfectionist and you'll be fine, otherwise the other dye companies mentioned are your best bet.

[ClayB]

This whole issue really bothers me. You need to understand, I really like Tandy. The name floods me with childhood memories of my Dad and leatherwork that he did. Most of us here like Tandy. The store managers are almost all great. I have a local store that I love to go to. Here is the trouble, they sell mainly crap. For 50+ years they sold dye that people like that worked well and lasted, now they decide to sell low quality junk that most people are not satisfied with the quality of. This is true with so many of their product lines. Look at what horid things they have done with Craft tools... the list goes on and on. They have a loyal customer base that they are trashing. I know they feel there is really no other choice so they can force crap on us, but at some point they need to sell what we want, what we will gladly stand in line to get.

OK, I am going to stop ranting for now.

This isn't aimed directly at electrathon. I've been reading more and more people trashing Tandy and the products they sell for awhile now, and it's been really bothering me too.

Have any of you tried any of the new Craftools that Tandy has been putting out? I sat in on a beginner class earlier this year in a Tandy store and was handed a pack of tools and told to play along. When I used the cams and the veiners I was pleasantly surprised. They left crisp clear impressions. Then when I used the smooth pear shaders and bevelers, they walked really nice, no chatter marks with the beveler. I asked if these were the new tools Tandy was putting out and was told they were. I was really impressed with how well they worked. I don't know how many of the tools Tandy has redesigned up to this date, but they are working on improving the quality of thier products. I hear so many people complaining about the quality of their leather and their dyes, but I have been using them if you take a little time to figure out what works, I get along fine with them. I get so tired of hearing people call everything Tandy sells "crap". Tandy got most of us started. Tandy has some very talented, dedicated leather artisans working for them. They have added some better quality leather to thier line, they are working on improving the quality of the Craftool line of tools. When it sounded like we weren't going to be able to get spirit based dyes much longer, they got started on a new line right away so that we'd have something to use in it's place. Seems like so many people tried it once, and when it didn't work just the same as the old stuff they gave up on it and call it "junk". Getting good at the art of working with leather requires dedication, practice, experimentation. So many people seem to want instant gratification and unfortunately, that's not gonna happen for most people when it comes to this medium. Then they want to blame the leather, the tools, the finishes, or anything else.

I know I'll probably regret posting this, but I have a lot of friends that work for Tandy and I know that they aren't trying to "trash" thier customer base. I know that a lot of them are the most dedicated leather carvers you're going to find anywhere and I think it's wrong for people here to throw insults at them. Maybe some of these people that keep complaining should go out and start thier own leather supply company and offer us all the "perfect" leather, tools, finishes, and supplies for rock bottom prices if it's so easy.

[CitizenKate]

Thanks for speaking up, Clay. Not that I'm such a big fan of Tandy (or anyone I do business with, for that matter), and I don't mind if people discuss what they do or don't like about any product, but this is starting to become a "trash Tandy" bandwagon, and some of the claims I'm reading here simply aren't true. Let's keep the discussion focused on facts.

Kate

[Vickie]

I agree with Clay. I find it totally amazing that "artists" can make anything work for them, but leather artists can't. I have a lot of students come in and only learn to use the new EF items and have no problem with it what so ever and older more experienced artists come in and can't grasp the concept of water verus alcohol....and these are the people we depend on for guidance. Give me an open mind and the ability to experiment any day over the old this is the way I do it and I refuse to change attitude. Thank goodness the early age leather artists had the guts to try to develop new ideas instead of depending on old ones or we would all still be using tree bark and vegetable plants to color our work.

[Tina]

I agree with Clay. I find it totally amazing that "artists" can make anything work for them, but leather artists can't. I have a lot of students come in and only learn to use the new EF items and have no problem with it what so ever and older more experienced artists come in and can't grasp the concept of water verus alcohol....and these are the people we depend on for guidance. Give me an open mind and the ability to experiment any day over the old this is the way I do it and I refuse to change attitude. Thank goodness the early age leather artists had the guts to try to develop new ideas instead of depending on old ones or we would all still be using tree bark and vegetable plants to color our work.

Just a wee bit of a twist from an artist mind...

As an artist and a leather artist I can only say that I want the best on the market to work with.

Sure I can learn to work with anything but why? Why would I want to use second/third kind of material in the first place? I invest loads of time making patterns, loads of time carving and tooling and now for the rest of the project I want it to shine...So I'm looking for that number one product that can help me as an artist to put the item "over the top", not to make it mediocre.

I have not seen one item in person (leather shows) that "shines" with EF, my oppinion. Some items is actually rather good but the product itself does not seams to have that right "starlook" for my use, to "dull/not vibrant enough" in lack of better description. Just my 2 cents...

[Rayban]

I'm sure I could make EF work for me if I had to, but fortunetly, I have better options at my disposal

[Cowboy316]

ok ok now you guys and gals got me scared of eco flow dyes i just bought some for a wallet im shippin out to cali on friday but now not use i wanna try to use it LOL

maybe ill try to mix a feibings batch some what close to a light coffee color

thanks for the infi everybody

Cowboy316

[hivemind]

I missed something somewhere, probably because I don't ever go into a Tandy store (nearest one is an hour away and I have a local guy ten mins from my house). Tandy stores aren't carrying Fiebing's dyes? Are people having a problem getting them, or just a problem getting them from Tandy stores? Why did Tandy stop carrying them?

[crissy]

I believe Tandy is trying to make a living while also trying to make things available to more than those who can afford to buy $25.00+ carving tools to get the job done. also I believe the reason the ecoflo line was created was an environmental effect decision from pressure at state levels. not an expert here but Tandy employees are always willing to share, teach, and alert me of deals saving me lot-o-cash. I am not knocking the expensive tools they are worth the green backs required for owning them and the machines to make turned wood or metal and so on are certainly not cheap. then there is the time required to make it "whatever it is" so as all artist or craft persons have done since creating paint or the wheel is to use whats available, figure it out improve it if possible and don't buy it if you don't like it. I don't know the Tandy owners maybe this is all BS but I always start with a positive note nothing about the day is easy any more unless you begin with a take it easy attitude. ecoflo products are good for something sand not so good for others. shoot you could probably make your own dye if you wanted to. I use ecoflo and fiebings and eventually going to try staining with oil paints eventually.

the best of luck

crissy

[CitizenKate]

I haven't really jumped into this topic up to now, because I've already shared my findings in regards to EF versus spirit dyes. But since we're here beating this dead horse, I might as well add my own humble dos centavos once again.

In my opinion, there is no "best" dye product, at least one that meets all my needs fully, and therefore there is no single dye that I would use exclusively. They all have advantages and disadvantages, and you simply choose which advantages are most important to you for the kind of work you do, or the kind of project you are doing. There are things I like - and don't like - about all of them.

I could care less about any politics that may have brought about the development of a new product. Whenever anything new comes out, I always want to try it and see what I can do with it. If I have to adjust my methods to make it work better, I do. This is because the more I adapt to new things, the more I am capable of doing.

It is true that Eco Flo is not at intense as spirit dye. For some projects, I do want intense color. For some projects, I like softer, more subtle color. If I want intense color, it is much easier to achieve that result with spirit dyes. If I'm doing work where I want more subtle colors, or if I think the item will be exposed to a lot of light, I use water-based.

It is not true that Eco Flo fades quickly. Those who claim this are mistaken. I have personally tested both spirit dyes and the water-based dyes for light-fastness, and have found exactly the opposite to be true. I posted photos of my results in an earlier thread. All dyes fade with exposure to light, and some colors fade more quickly than others. But the water-based dyes hold up under intense light exposure far better than any of the spirit dyes I've tested so far.

It is not true that your project will automatically look like crap if you use water-based dyes. It depends on how you apply it. If you don't want to make the effort to learn how to apply it to get the results you want, that is your choice. If there is another product you're happier with, nobody expects you to change. But that is far different from just trying it once and saying the product itself crap, and your project will look like crap if you use it. Below are some examples of some projects I've done using EF. Maybe in your opinion they do look like crap, but those who have commented on them have not raised any issues with the coloring of them:

ClayB has won awards with work he has colored with water-based dyes.

It is true that water-based dyes run like a bad dog when water hits them! That is, if you don't seal them with a moisture-resistant finish. I've now got numerous items I've made with the dye, and in the months since I've made them, the color has neither faded, nor rubbed off.

But at the end of the day, it's just dye, and we still have choices.

Kate

[whinewine]

I missed something somewhere, probably because I don't ever go into a Tandy store (nearest one is an hour away and I have a local guy ten mins from my house). Tandy stores aren't carrying Fiebing's dyes? Are people having a problem getting them, or just a problem getting them from Tandy stores? Why did Tandy stop carrying them?

I've not had a problem getting Fiebings at Tandy- I picked up a bottle on Saturday at the Pgh Tandy's. [maybe it's just in california??? ]

To add my $.02 worth on eco flo (not that anyone cares, but...) I use ecoflo and Fiebings spirit (& the now defunct Tandy's Pro Dyes, [if I can locate any, that is]). I do prefer spirit dyes over water based dyes, but I must say that the ecoflo coal black is quite nice, as it doesn't crock like the black spirit dyes. Having said that, it is absolutely important to remember that all water-based dyes MUST BE SEALED PROPERLY, EVEN THE EDGES! I've said before, in other posts, that I've made coaster sets (to be used under wet glasses), using ecoflo products, but I always make sure they are fully sealed, including the edges. I seal very well with a lacquer (neatlac)- I would never take a chance trying to seal with a water-based finish over a water-based dye in a water-rich environment- that would be just plain stupid to think that would work in that kind of area.

As far as dyes in general go, I still prefer the old Omega dyes from the '60s & '70s.

russ

Edited August 18, 2009 by whinewine

[Tina]

...going to try staining with oil paints eventually.

the best of luck

crissy

It works just fine:-)

When I paint oil paintings I use Rembrandt oil paint and I did have a try at it on leather....Works beautifully:-) I used Angelus finisher ontop (after + a month of drying time) and this piece have been laying around for over a year now, still super:

Ohh, I forgot something. I agree with a lot of Kates words but...We're talking here about taste and preferences and that will always be different from person to person (we have a saying in Sweden: "The taste is like the buttocks-Devided!"). I stated my oppinion which does not mean that others have the same, I would think that the world would be a way poor place if we all think/do/like the same things:-)

Edited August 18, 2009 by Tina

[electrathon]

Well, I seem to have started this... I will input a little more.

I do agree with the people that are saying is you never learn to use the superior products that you will not know what you are missing and will likely be content with the only choices you are given. But there are better products out there. Tandy used to sell some of them. Many of us are willing to pay for them. The unfortionate part is that we are left with no choice but to buy them elsewhere.

As I stated earlier, I have an emotional attachment to Tandy. The local store is great, I really like the people that work there. The frustration I feel when they do not have what I want or the quality I want is echoed by the store employies when they tell me that the upper levels at Tandy do not listen to the stores or customers input. Tandy is turning/has turned into the Harbor Freight of the leather world. They sell cheap quality at reasonable prices. If you are a cub scout or a beginner, Tandy is without question the place to go. Once you start to learn, you will often need to go elsewhere for the products you want.

Thsi is all very sad to me. I want to buy from Tandy, I also like quality products. The two often do not go hand in hand. I buy from them for about half of what I use, I have to order the rest. If I had my way, I would buy everything from them, they are the ones that choose to not carry product lines.

[Rayban]

ok ok now you guys and gals got me scared of eco flow dyes i just bought some for a wallet im shippin out to cali on friday but now not use i wanna try to use it LOL

maybe ill try to mix a feibings batch some what close to a light coffee color

thanks for the infi everybody

Cowboy316

Oh no you don't Cowboy....you gotta try it out and decide for your own self if it will work for ya....I want a report on my desk in the morning....dismissed!