My thoughts on sewing machines

[bruce johnson]

Some random thoughts on sewing machines. There are a lot of really lucky people right now. I am going to try to not sound like some cranky old guy, but you "kids" don't know how good you got it. I was merrily sewing along by hand, and started expanding. One Sunday I sewed up several trucker wallets - zippers, pockets, edges. Monday morning I knew I had to do something. I lifted my tendonitic elbows and dialed Tippmanns. They had recently introduced the Boss for $1600 with NO attachments. The next option for anything comparable in a powered machine was about $4500, and with medical biils out the wazoo, that wasn't in the cards for our deal. There were a few ASNs, Champions, and other big machines on the used market. They all came with a spare machine "for parts", and a box of greasy or rusty spare parts for the spare parts machine. Anybody local who could work on them was generally too old to. The single needle machines were not being traded on the market to any extent.

There was no leather forum to discuss these machines or get advice. LCSJ wouldn't allow articles by any machine guys explaining even what to look for in a machine, feed mechanisms, anything for fear of offending another advertiser. ShopTalk had a smattering here and there, but no real meat and potaotes for an newbie. A guy looking to trade up had to wing it, or call everyone who had an ad. The guys really buying machines had knowledge of what they needed, were in "the business" in some fashion, and mostly knew who they wanted to deal with. I got my medical knowledge from Reader's Digest and my sewing machine knowledge from the back of Western Horseman. I ordered a machine out of there, those who read it know who and what machine. I just called them up, and within about 5 minutes, the deal was done. I didn't know enough to ask the right questions, ended up with a machine that by nature was not what I needed. Enter customer service - they traded me a different machine head and made the deal work for both of us. Service and parts on that machine post-sale were handled well, but no forums to sing their praises and the Yahoo lists frowned on it. I have since bought two more machines from them. The "price wars" still hadn't started and I paid for one about what you folks can buy 2 similar machine for now. I have no regrets, I sold the original for more than I had in it. The other two have paid for themselves already, and have had no downtime.

When the 3000 came out, it set a new pricemark that filled that niche between the Boss and the Adler/Juki/Classic machines. It allowed a lot of people that were in between handsewing and $5000 to get a machine. We all know what has happened since. There are more companies, the prices have been pretty stable and even dropped in some cases. You can get biased and unbiased information on machine capabilities, price, service, attachments, and the sellers. There are some new handcranks, new clones, machines out a few years with a track record, and good solid info on setting up and running the old machines. Not all of the sellers are represented on this forum, but there are others. Nobody is going to agree on any one. Heck I have a Ford, Chevy, and Dodge pickup in the driveway. But the fact is the stuff is out there and more available to make an informed buying decision. At the same time, there are some good prices on machines right now. That combination was not around even as short as maybe 3-1/2 years ago (I am thinking the 300 came out 3 years ago about Sheridan time). I can't think these prices will last forever, now looks to be a pretty good time to buy. The long time users, sellers, and recent buyers all sharing their experiences here is a plus. We won't all drive Fords, Chevy's or Dodges, agree that Canadians make better whiskey than Kentucky, or Coors beats Bud, but we all know a heck of a lot more about sewing machines than we used to. Thanks to all.

[jbird]

Bruce

I thank you for your level headed remarks well said sir well said.

[CowboyBob]

Bruce, That is very well put.The info available on this board is priceless.

As a dealer for almost 30 yrs I started out selling New Adlers 205-370 for $4,800.00 & had people calling all the time for used ones,(we did sell alot of new ones).theones we did find brought from $3,800-$4200.

We managed in 2003 to buy 7-Juki 441's in great shape that we sold f/$3,695.00.

Now in 2009 I still get calls for used machines since people still don't want to spend the $$ f/a new one,they just don't come in,I think if someone closes up,sells out,retires someone always comes along a snags them up.

So if you want a machine I'd say the time to buy is now before they go up.

[Cobra Steve]

Bruce, you are right. The information available today regarding sewing machines is vast. If the consumer has questions, Art, Ryan, or myself (and others), will make sure that we give them the best information that we know. This is a good time to buy, as you say, however the reasons for buying vary. There are the people that buy based on price, the people that buy from the company that they trust, and the people that don't give a darn about either. This is the group that will be filtered out, and may the best man win. To those who buy based on price, remember, desperate men do desperate things. You do not want to have any regrets in a year and a half from now. For those who buy from the company that you trust, we all thank you, we could all split the remaining potential customers, and all make a living. I say to the potential customer: call all of the sewing machine dealers and listen to what they have to offer, then make your informed decision. We all deserve a chance to satisfy you. You will not regret learning about each company. Thank you, Steve

[Windom Leather]

Thanks Bruce for your comments on this subject. I myself am in the market for a machine right and if it wasn't for these forums I would have no clue on the subject. So I would have to say thank you all for being here

[dirtclod]

Like ever one else i started hand sewing for my own work. The shop i worked at had a American Straight needle machine that i could use from time to time. When i left there i found a American Straight needle and used it for several years all the time wanting something with a deep throat.

My old machine was wore out years before i got it and it finally needed to be replaced. After seeing how much i had, i went to the bank to borrow the rest. Took a picture of the machine i wanted with me and had all the reasons i needed the money. I was pretty sure they were going to laugh in my face when i told them i wanted to borrow $2000.00 to buy a new machine. "I had saved $3000.00" Anyway they said sign here pay for 3 years and it's yours.

That was about 15 years ago and i am still using my Ferdco / Juki Pro 2000 almost every day. The only thing i have ever broke outside of a needle was a tension spring and the rubber piece on the thread winder and both were easy frepairs. The times i have broke a needle was because of hitting buckle or sewing a old saddle skirt.

So i would say if you really like doing leather work get one even if you have to borrow some money. You'll be glad you did as soon as you sew the piece. I'll bet you will be just like me a guy i used to work in saying i should done this years ago !

Their are so many more good chocies right now i might of bought something else. I just don't know.

Happy sewing

Dirtclod

[stelmackr]

Some random thoughts on sewing machines. There are a lot of really lucky people right now....When the 3000 came out, it set a new pricemark that filled that niche between the Boss and the Adler/Juki/Classic machines....

Bruce,

You remind me of my pre-adult years when I entered into a hobby of tropical fish keeping. I started with a 5 gallon tank, a few guppies, a heater, filter and an air pump. Later I found out that those little fish made more fish and I wanted to try to expand my collection, so I purchased a 10 gallon tank. I needed a larger heater, filter and air pump. The family was enjoying watching the fish and so I expanded to a 29 gallon tank. You guessed it--I needed a larger heater, filter and air pump. That was so successful the the family acquired a second 29 gallon tank with a stand that held them both.

You may ask: "What does this have to do with sewing machines?" The cost of the upgrading and changing to a setup that met the hobby needs wound up costing four times as much than if I had bit the bullet and purchased the correct setup to begin with.

You would think I learned, but the Boss, used Juki, Ferdco 1245 experience showed me I still have a lot to learn. I'd better hurry up--I'm getting older.

Bob Stelmack

[HARVEY]

With all this being said, maybe some kind soul can list 2-3 machines in different categories for those of us that still kill the animal and use sinew.

What machines would you folks recommend for:

Newbies, say 1-2 years experience;

Intermediate leather people; OR

For folks who do belts, notebooks, purses, small cases, etc., maybe up to 7-8oz.

Or folks that do saddles, tack, industrial belts, and heavier leather weights.

How about some categories of leatherwork with, say, 2-3 applicable/appropriate machines? Which are starter machines? What do you move up to from there?

Harvey

[Cobra Steve]

Harvey, ideally you would want 2 machines. One for light to medium weight, and one for medium to heavy weight. The lightweight machine should be a flatbed for sewing up to 20oz. leather. In some cases you may be able to sew a little heavier. The important factor is the thread size. Most of these types of machines will sew 138 size thread top and bottom, and in some cases 207, however you cannot use 207 in the bobbin, there's not enough clearance for the thread to pull up and make a nice tight stitch. This is where the heavier machine comes in. Most heavy duty machines are more versatile than lightweight machines. You can always sew thinner leather with a heavier machines, because you can use a 138 size thread as well as a 346 thread. You cannot do this with a lightweigjht machine. The reason for both machines... it is a hassle changing thread and needle sizes every time you want to sew different weights. This is just an overview of this subject, but it is a good starting point. Thanks, Steve

[UKRay]

I have to agree with all that Bruce has said. Although I have been in the leather business for many years I have always hand-stitched my work but recognised that I needed to mechanise to make a decent profit. I asked for advice and it came back in volume, freely given and all of it valuable. In fact, without the forum's advice on buying sewing machines I would have missed a whole lot of recent work opportunities.

Given that I live in the UK, most of the fine machines available on the other side of the pond are simply not available to me at a sensible price (shipping costs killed every possible deal) but the forum gurus were not put off... despite the fact I was never going to put money in anyone's pocket for a new machine the advice still came thick and fast - so many thanks for all your help folks.

I ended up buying an amazing Highlead machine here in the UK (from a forum member, cheers Troy) that, with a few modifications (once again I had a huge amount of help from the forum) does all my heavy stitching.

When I couldn't work out how to sew in straight lines (doh!) I was even sent a roller guide as a gift (thanks so much for that Art, it changed everything!).

More recently I was having a problem sourcing needles in the UK - a quick email to a couple of UK based forum members (thanks CelticLeather and Steve Brambley) and I was sorted out and ready to work again.

I now regard the forum as an extension of my business. LW isn't absolutely perfect, but I can't imagine being without it now and wonder how I managed before. I'm going to buy another machine sometime soon and will be looking for even more advice. Sadly, I won't be able to access the incredible bargains currently available in the US and will have to work very hard to find an affordable deal over here.

Count your blessings all of you in the USA, buy now if you can afford it, I can't see the prices staying low for long.

Ray