old singers

[jnewburry]

Hi all just wondering if any old singers were suited for beginners wanting to learn to make boots (what models recommended, which to avoid) Obviously there will be limitations with these machines but sewing shafts and things seem possible. Several i have seen in area were a 99k, a 31-15, AF767223. Just wondered if i might be able to get started on the cheap.

Thanks,

jim

[Luke Hatley]

dont look for cheap.....Look for a good machine that will not let you down.

imagin getting the stiches almost done and the cheap machine starts skipping stiches.

I was told"CHEAP THINGS DONT COME GOOD

GOOD THINGS DONT COME CHEAP"

[King's X]

If you live in Indiana, there is a guy on ebay selling a Singer long arm patch machine that works with a starting bid of $100 and a buy it now option of $200. Stickler, you have to pick it up.

Good luck.

[steveh]

I believe some custom boot makers do use the 31-15 with a roller wheel to do the decreative stitching on the tops and toes. Parts are available and if you can find a tight one it will serve you well.

[cgleather]

Watch some of the 29 model singers. If the arm is solid cast (the area where the bobbin sits) and is not in good working order avoid it due to wear points that can not be repaired. You could be getting a fixer uper that cant be fixed. There were 29 models made with this part of the arm that can be replaced though. Check with some of the folks on this site that deal in machines prior to buying a used one, if that is the route that you want to take. Some you just can't get parts for.

[CowboyBob]

The 31-15 might be a better starter machine then a 29 since the 29's are top feed,meaning the foot pull the leather (they have teeth on them and will leave marks)

I know alot of people that use a 31-15 for leather w/a roller foot & we stock all the parts,needles& thread for them as for the 29's too.

If you have any questions about any particular machine give me a call.

Bob Kovar

[JoeS]

The 29-4s are what cgleather is referring to. I'd stay away from them unless you can test sew it yourself. Cobblers are well known for not taking care of their machines, I know, I work for one. You can get parts for the 31s and 29ks including the roller foot setup. You'll have to change out the feed dog to a single though for the roller foot. I picked up mine on craigslist for around $100 each but I had to go get them and clean them up, but I learned a lot about them doing that. I also learned a lot on this sewing machine forum http://needlebar.org/bb2/index.php

Free to join and ask questions in the industrial machine section. I learned about 31-15s and the roller foot thing from an awesome boot/shoe making forum here.

http://www.thehcc.org/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=4&post=9355

good luck

[Cobra Steve]

The 29-4s are what cgleather is referring to. I'd stay away from them unless you can test sew it yourself. Cobblers are well known for not taking care of their machines, I know, I work for one. You can get parts for the 31s and 29ks including the roller foot setup. You'll have to change out the feed dog to a single though for the roller foot. I picked up mine on craigslist for around $100 each but I had to go get them and clean them up, but I learned a lot about them doing that. I also learned a lot on this sewing machine forum http://needlebar.org/bb2/index.php

Free to join and ask questions in the industrial machine section. I learned about 31-15s and the roller foot thing from an awesome boot/shoe making forum here.

http://www.thehcc.or...tpc=4&post=9355

good luck

Hi jnewburry, a roller foot machine, new or used is your best bet for boot tops. They are easier to learn on and less money, unless you can down right steal one. Steve

[Daggrim]

I was in your spot a year ago, a beginner, and bought a 29k. I spent many frustrating hours trying to get it to sew reliably, but finally gave up, and sold it for much less than I overpaid for it. I had help with it from a cobbler who owned one, but even he never really got it working reliably. This is just my experience, but it's an example of what can happen. The 29k's don't often have glowing reports, even from the people who may own one, and can make it work. My advice is to stick with a machine that gets unconditionally good reports from users.

Doug

[Art]

The GC 128-B machines that are made by Highlead are a nice little boot top machine that won't break the bank. They are generally provided with a roller foot, servo motor and a speed reducer. By the time you get all that on a 31-15 the costs are getting real close. They are also sold as a 5550B.

http://www.leathermachineco.com/catalog.php?item=28

Art

[pancho47]

The 29-4s are what cgleather is referring to. I'd stay away from them unless you can test sew it yourself. Cobblers are well known for not taking care of their machines, I know, I work for one. You can get parts for the 31s and 29ks including the roller foot setup. You'll have to change out the feed dog to a single though for the roller foot. I picked up mine on craigslist for around $100 each but I had to go get them and clean them up, but I learned a lot about them doing that. I also learned a lot on this sewing machine forum http://needlebar.org/bb2/index.php

Free to join and ask questions in the industrial machine section. I learned about 31-15s and the roller foot thing from an awesome boot/shoe making forum here.

http://www.thehcc.org/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=4&post=9355

good luck

joe ,i have to disagree with you ,i've been a cobbler ,bootrepairman for 30 years i take care of my machines because their my bread and butter,i know many other ''cobblers'' all of them take care of their machines and tools its how we make our living,pancho

[JoeS]

joe ,i have to disagree with you ,i've been a cobbler ,bootrepairman for 30 years i take care of my machines because their my bread and butter,i know many other ''cobblers'' all of them take care of their machines and tools its how we make our living,pancho

my appologies pancho....I should have said the cobblers and stitchers I've seen and worked with....they don't oil them until they won't stitch, get bent and cracked when they're moved, etc. and was just trying to help someone from getting burned....I have a lot of respect for craftsmen like yourself shouldn't have generalized.

joe

[stelmackr]

Topic is "Old Singers". How about Andy Williams? ?

[barra]

Topic is "Old Singers". How about Andy Williams? ?

There just had to be one. I've been wondering how long before someone took the bait Bob.

[Beener]

I was in your spot a year ago, a beginner, and bought a 29k.  I spent many frustrating hours trying to get it to sew reliably, but finally gave up, and sold it for much less than I overpaid for it.  I had help with it from a cobbler who owned one, but even he never really got it working reliably. This is just my experience, but it's an example of what can happen.   The 29k's don't often have glowing reports, even from the people who may own one, and can make it work.  My advice is to stick with a machine that gets unconditionally good reports from users.

Doug

Ouch, that really hurts a 29K58 owner who uses and loves his machine like crazy. I guess to each his own really. I have torn apart, reinforced and re-sewn more figure skate boots with a 29K than I care to imagine and haven't had any problems. YES, I really liked my Claes as well, but it was about a bajillion dollars compared to the 29K and they seem to work just as well as each other dollar for dollar. (BTW, figure skate boots are constructed of multiple layers of leather and lately thermal plastic)

[jnewburry]

Thanks all for the information, I have just been sitting back watching the info come in. I am here to learn, but just wanted to let you all know that i was still in the background watching.

Thanks again.

jim

[kevinhopkins]

Hi Jim,

For what it's worth, you might want to decide how much grief you're willing to put up with, because if you start with cheap used, Unless you're a sewing machine person, you're going to learn to be one pretty quickly. And that can be pretty frustrating. Those old 31-15's were pretty good machines, but you can bet it will come with a clutch motor, and those things take off like a rabbit.... If you're willing to go thru the learning curve, and the hassles that often come with a used old machine, then a 31-15 might be ok.... I'd shy away from that patcher like I would a skunk. If you have to have a patcher, find one that you can watch while sewing. Otherwise, if you're serious about starting, try your best to start with a new machine that is designed to do what you want. You'll never regret it. There's nothing worse than a used sewing machine that only skips a stitch every few feet.....

Kevin@springfieldleather.com

[JoeS]

From a new guys' perspective and with all due respect to the guys/gals with much more experience than I , the 31s also came with a treadle base, if you can find one, and the one I have suits my skill level just fine, which is s-l-o-w. You can further adjust it's speed by cutting your own leather belts and fooling with the bigger or smaller wheel on the treadle. I'm not sure of the exact year brackets of industrial revolution machining and casting but from an untrained eye it borders on art to me. Maybe I just got lucky, but I had the time of my life taking those old things apart, cleaning them up and learning what made them tick. I'm still no expert, but I'd like to think that process has helped me get my Tippmann sewing right without some of the problems I've read about here. There was a guy on a shoe/boot making forum I used to read that used only a patcher to make his period boots and shoes at Williamsburg and made some really nice stuff and I've always liked a line from there that's something to the effect of.... no one will ever know what you used or how long it took you to make it....just what ends up as the final product. For the money, I wouldn't have been able to afford to make one stitch without these old dogs. If I can get to the point where I can justify and afford a new stitcher I probably will, but until then I've got what I have and enjoying every minute of it....just my opinion

joe

[jeeperaz]

Your first machine should be a post bed with a roller presser foot.... you can make a simple platform to get these machines to work as a flatbed as well. Singer models: 51w or even better a Singer 236. But Consew,pfaff, juki and others make good postbeds as well.

Don't take my word for it, read what the experts have to say about what machines are needed to make shoes/boots: Read the post from Friday, December 26,2008 and the answers from the next 2 or 3 days.

http://www.thehcc.org/discus/messages/4/1386.html?12566782253

[jeeperaz]

The GC 128-B machines that are made by Highlead are a nice little boot top machine that won't break the bank. They are generally provided with a roller foot, servo motor and a speed reducer. By the time you get all that on a 31-15 the costs are getting real close. They are also sold as a 5550B.

http://www.leatherma...log.php?item=28

Art

Singer 31-15's can routinely be had for $75-$150 on ebay.. plus maybe $50 for shipping. Roller presser and single dog feed another $50. These machines are very common and are frequently found on craigslist as well.

There cannot be an easier machine to work on as far as cleaning and tuning. I would not hesitate buying a used one as long as it looks decent.

[jnewburry]

Thank you all for the information. I just brought home a 31-15 last night from chicago, was a nice road trip and got to get some great pizza for dinner. I am sure to have lots of questions to the ones who use these machines. It came with table set up with motor and knee lift, it looks well used and well taken care of. Now i gotta find some help to get it off my truck lol, then i have to replace cord, think it is original. Well i am off to play with my new toy a little.

thanks

jim

[pancho47]

good luck with your new used 31-15 ,if it sews nice and tight you will love it,have a good day