Do you prefer a 4 prong punch, awl or what to make sewing holes?

[NewYorkerInSydney]

G'day folks,

When making holes, do most of you prefer to use a 4 prong punch to make evenly spaced holes or do you use s stitching spacer and then an awl or what? I have started making watch straps and the holes I have been making are with a rotary punch. Not sure if I like it, especially because it seems that the holes are still not perfectly aligned even though I have been using a stitching wheel. How do you all get nice aligned holes for sewing your stitches? I am trying to decide if I should buy a 4 prong punch or buy an awl? Its just that some of my straps are a bit thick and I can't imagine pushing holes into these thick pieces of leather with one. Thanks so much for your answers

Cheers,

NYIS

Edited November 11, 2009 by NewYorkerInSydney

[Hilly]

G'day folks,

When making holes, do most of you prefer to use a 4 prong punch to make evenly spaced holes or do you use s stitching spacer and then an awl or what? I have started making watch straps and the holes I have been making are with a rotary punch. Not sure if I like it, especially because it seems that the holes are still not perfectly aligned even though I have been using a stitching wheel. How do you all get nice aligned holes for sewing your stitches? I am trying to decide if I should buy a 4 prong punch or buy an awl? Its just that some of my straps are a bit thick and I can't imagine pushing holes into these thick pieces of leather with one. Thanks so much for your answers

Cheers,

NYIS

I would never even consider one of those 4 hole punches for something as fine as a watch band . They make very large holes, and it takes very heavy thread (spelled R-O-P-E) to fill them. Your best bet would be to get yourself a good awl haft and a very fine blade for it. I belive Bob Douglas (307)737-2222 sells what you are looking for. You also might try getting a pricking iron instead of using your stitching wheel. They don't punch holes, but work like a stitching wheel, showing where your awl needs to pierce the leather, and the angle it needs to be used at.

I'd also like to suggest the book "The Art of Hand Sewing Leather" by Al Stohlman. It is packed with useful information on the proper techniques of hand sewing leather. Worth every dime.

The best way to get perfect hand stitching is to practice......... a lot. Form your stitches the exact same way each and every stitch. Pull them the same tightness every time.

Hope this has helped. Please post photos of your work when you finish!

Hilly

[Luke Hatley]

I USE ONE AND IT WORKS FOR ME. NOW I WILL ADMIT IT HAS HAD A LOT OF WORK DONE TO IT.

LIKE USEING A FILE TO MAKE THE PRONGS SMALLER.

[Rawhide]

Personally I use an awl for all hand sewing, but if you like the use of the round hole punches, here's a trick for you. when you mark your hole locations, align the edge of the punch to the mark, instead of trying to center it on the mark. Once you cover it up, you can't see it and you'll never get perfectly aligned holes.

[Spence]

>Personally I use an awl for all hand sewing, but if you like the use of the round hole punches, here's a trick for you. when you mark your hole locations, align the edge of the punch to the mark, instead of trying to center it on the mark. Once you cover it up, you can't see it and you'll never get perfectly aligned holes.

If I could only find a stick, I'd whup myself over the head with it !!!

There are times I would like to use small holes, but I don't because of the alignment problem.

Not anymore !!!! Thanks for that trick.

Edited November 11, 2009 by Spence

[Hilly]

I USE ONE AND IT WORKS FOR ME. NOW I WILL ADMIT IT HAS HAD A LOT OF WORK DONE TO IT.

LIKE USEING A FILE TO MAKE THE PRONGS SMALLER.

That's a great idea, Luke! Can you show us a photo of a project you used this modified 4 prong punch on?

[DCKNIVES]

I use an awl for some stuff, but for most of my work I use my drill press. I sharpen the shank end of various sizes of drill bits( depending on the lace or thread sizes) and chuck them upside down and with the press running I punch the holes.I use pieces of 1"x 4" with a notch cut for the belt loops to keep the holes straight and even.I also made a small table out of aluminum and covered it with UHMW plastic to help move the piece around easier.Dave

[CitizenKate]

I USE ONE AND IT WORKS FOR ME. NOW I WILL ADMIT IT HAS HAD A LOT OF WORK DONE TO IT.

LIKE USEING A FILE TO MAKE THE PRONGS SMALLER.

I had thought about grinding the prongs down, so I could do the holes in just one step, and was wondering if anyone had ever tried that. I use my diamond hole punch just to lightly mark the holes, and an awl to punch them, for the same reason Hilly mentions. The holes made by the punch in its current condition would be way too big.

Kate

[bex DK]

The four prong thonging chisels are for lacing, not sewing. They are designed to make holes large enough for that size lace. I wouldn't dream of using them as-is for sewing with thread. The resulting holes are made to stay open, not disappear like the ones you need to make for sewing. If I need multiple layers of lace in, I generally stretch them with a stylus or something, but even if I didn't, I am sure they would be ugly with thread. Same deal with round punches.

My understanding is that for sewing with thread, you want to make the smallest possible hole so it will close back up afterwards. I haven't learned saddle stitch yet, but did use a different stitch for putting in zippers, etc. (don't know a name for it, but the front shows neat even stitches and the back is kinda ugly. but it is strong). Before I had the wheel for marking stitches, I sat with a ruler to make even spaces. Much easier with the wheel. You need to press firmly on a solid background to get clear marks. If you have unevenness in the marks, I would suspect either an error in technique or a poor quality or damaged wheel.

I use the groover to cut the groove for my stitches so they "disappear" flat into the leather. Then run the wheel in that with the desired spacing. You want to set it in carefully so your first hole is where you want it.

I then use an awl for the holes. I usually make all at once, but haven't done any large projects yet. With large ones it might be easier to do a few at a time. I don't know that my technique for that is completely correct--haven't studied enough yet--but I hold the awl blade so it crosses the "line" of stitches on an angle. Have to push it in far enough for the needle to go through, but not farther than necessary. My hands are pretty weak due to health conditions, so I often use a pair of pliers for pulling the needle through when it is a little tight. Then after stitching, line up the wheel again and run it over the stitches. It helps even them up and presses them into shape. that's why the wheel isn't just points--it has a curve to "shape" the stitches.

Hope that helps some.

I realize more experienced people are mentioned modifying the thonging chisel, but I imagine that can only work if you have a very low number of stitches per inch.

Oh, and whether you use chisel or awl, be sure to use something soft underneath that won't dull the points. I put a thick leather scrap under so I can push the tip into that safely. My plastic board otherwise dulls the point and prevents the thonging chisel from cutting deep enough to make a slit that is comfortable for lacing.

Good lcuk!

Rebecca

[Luke Hatley]

That's a great idea, Luke! Can you show us a photo of a project you used this modified 4 prong punch on?

hope the photos are clear, i did some changes on the camera.

the small case is with the small punch /6 cord tappered end thread.

the canteen is sewn /8 cord thread , punched with a larger punch.

...........works for me..........

Edited November 12, 2009 by Luke Hatley

[TTcustom]

Uniformity comes from consistency in method and practice. With that said I use an awl and bought a good one (already mentioned ) for my stitching and I run the stitching wheel over it when I am done.

But now I have some new ideas to try out thanks Luke!

[Colter]

I use a four-prong punch for my work, i absolutely love the ease of it to make nice, uniform holes. I'm yet to work with something as small as a watchband so i don't know that it's great there, but for anything else It works best for me.

[Hilly]

The four prong thonging chisels are for lacing, not sewing. They are designed to make holes large enough for that size lace. I wouldn't dream of using them as-is for sewing with thread. The resulting holes are made to stay open, not disappear like the ones you need to make for sewing. If I need multiple layers of lace in, I generally stretch them with a stylus or something, but even if I didn't, I am sure they would be ugly with thread. Same deal with round punches.

My understanding is that for sewing with thread, you want to make the smallest possible hole so it will close back up afterwards. I haven't learned saddle stitch yet, but did use a different stitch for putting in zippers, etc. (don't know a name for it, but the front shows neat even stitches and the back is kinda ugly. but it is strong). Before I had the wheel for marking stitches, I sat with a ruler to make even spaces. Much easier with the wheel. You need to press firmly on a solid background to get clear marks. If you have unevenness in the marks, I would suspect either an error in technique or a poor quality or damaged wheel.

I use the groover to cut the groove for my stitches so they "disappear" flat into the leather. Then run the wheel in that with the desired spacing. You want to set it in carefully so your first hole is where you want it.

I then use an awl for the holes. I usually make all at once, but haven't done any large projects yet. With large ones it might be easier to do a few at a time. I don't know that my technique for that is completely correct--haven't studied enough yet--but I hold the awl blade so it crosses the "line" of stitches on an angle. Have to push it in far enough for the needle to go through, but not farther than necessary. My hands are pretty weak due to health conditions, so I often use a pair of pliers for pulling the needle through when it is a little tight. Then after stitching, line up the wheel again and run it over the stitches. It helps even them up and presses them into shape. that's why the wheel isn't just points--it has a curve to "shape" the stitches.

Hope that helps some.

I realize more experienced people are mentioned modifying the thonging chisel, but I imagine that can only work if you have a very low number of stitches per inch.

Oh, and whether you use chisel or awl, be sure to use something soft underneath that won't dull the points. I put a thick leather scrap under so I can push the tip into that safely. My plastic board otherwise dulls the point and prevents the thonging chisel from cutting deep enough to make a slit that is comfortable for lacing.

Good lcuk!

Rebecca

True, pronging chisels are made for lacing, but these are made for saddle stitching.

[NewYorkerInSydney]

True, pronging chisels are made for lacing, but these are made for saddle stitching.

HI everyone, thank you so much for your suggestions. I currently have a Tandy sewing awl with a needle attached to it and tried using it last night. The only problem with it that I see is that when I poke a hole through my leather straps, on the backside of the strap the hole looks more like a tear and it doesnt look very nice because the leather looks torn. How to I fix that problem?? Thanks again. And Hilly, thanks for the link to that prong. Would those holes made by that prong you suggest be small enough for a watch strap hole?

Cheers guys!

[bex DK]

I would guess your awl needs to be sharpened if it looks like it is ripping rather than cutting.

I wouldn't want a punch like that for a watch band. It may be made for saddle stitching, but going from the size, I'd expect it takes a thick, strong thread.

I hadn't noticed those before--not something I'd need--but for a watch band you want something that will close itself up so you only see the thread, not the hole.

Are you using the handheld "sewing machine" Tandy makes? I'd expect it to be far too heavy for your needs.

But I am much less experienced than the others here, so they can probably give better advice.

[NewYorkerInSydney]

I would guess your awl needs to be sharpened if it looks like it is ripping rather than cutting.

I wouldn't want a punch like that for a watch band. It may be made for saddle stitching, but going from the size, I'd expect it takes a thick, strong thread.

I hadn't noticed those before--not something I'd need--but for a watch band you want something that will close itself up so you only see the thread, not the hole.

Are you using the handheld "sewing machine" Tandy makes? I'd expect it to be far too heavy for your needs.

But I am much less experienced than the others here, so they can probably give better advice.

Hello Bex, thanks for your reply. Yes, I have the "sewing machine" you mention. It is a sewing awl. I can change the needle sizes on it. Thus, I dont think you can sharpen the needle. I used that awl with the needle attached to it to make a hole in the straps only I dont like the to sew with it, but the back side of the straps I can see tiny rips. I rather have a real hole than a tear. Not sure why this is. I guess, I will just buy a regular awl like some of you mentioned that doesnt have a needle at the end and instead utilizes a blade. Gosh, I so did not think this would be so hard for me.

Cheers,

NYIS

[NewYorkerInSydney]

Hi again everyone. I have a question that may possibly be dumb, but I thought I would take the risk and ask anyway. I have the Tandy Sewing Awl. It is an awl with a needle attached to the end of it. The needle sizes can be changed. Do you think that I can attach an awl blade to this thing? has anyone tried? If I could buy a blade to this, it would be cheaper than buying a new awl with a blade on the end. If it can't be done, then I am fine with just buying an awl with a different end to it.

Thank you for your help.

NYIS

[Hilly]

HI everyone, thank you so much for your suggestions. I currently have a Tandy sewing awl with a needle attached to it and tried using it last night. The only problem with it that I see is that when I poke a hole through my leather straps, on the backside of the strap the hole looks more like a tear and it doesnt look very nice because the leather looks torn. How to I fix that problem?? Thanks again. And Hilly, thanks for the link to that prong. Would those holes made by that prong you suggest be small enough for a watch strap hole?

Cheers guys!

Unless you are making a really heavy/chunky type of band, I would probably avoid the diamond point 4 prong punch, as the holes it makes really are too large and far apart for something so small. But, this is only my opinion...

Hello Bex, thanks for your reply. Yes, I have the "sewing machine" you mention. It is a sewing awl. I can change the needle sizes on it. Thus, I dont think you can sharpen the needle. I used that awl with the needle attached to it to make a hole in the straps only I dont like the to sew with it, but the back side of the straps I can see tiny rips. I rather have a real hole than a tear. Not sure why this is. I guess, I will just buy a regular awl like some of you mentioned that doesnt have a needle at the end and instead utilizes a blade. Gosh, I so did not think this would be so hard for me.

Cheers,

NYIS

I have no experience with those sewing awls, so I don't know if you can switch the needle out for an awl. My suggestion would be to get a diamond point awl (made by C.S.Osborne and sold at Tandy), and the book "The Art of Hand Sewing Leather" by Al Stohlman (also available at Tandy), some waxed linen thread and harness needles (also at Tandy) and give saddle stitching a try. You might find it works better for you than that sewing awl.

The only problem with the diamond point awl, is that they never come sharp enough right out of the box. You will need to "tune up" the blade a bit, and keep it stropped. Then it should be easy to pierce even thick leather with it.

Let us know what you decide to do, and please post pictures of your cool projects! We all love pictures!

Hope this was at least a little bit helpful.

Hilly

[Rawhide]

The only problem with the diamond point awl, is that they never come sharp enough right out of the box. You will need to "tune up" the blade a bit, and keep it stropped. Then it should be easy to pierce even thick leather with it.

Unless you have a Bob Douglas awl... Ask my finger how it knows! Went right through the nail to the nail bed one time! Talk about pain!

Bob's are sharp right from the get-go.

[kevinhopkins]

Hi, I think a good awl blade will take care of your needs quite nicely, but don't try to put it in the stitching awl that you have. I'd recommend either buying an osborne handle, (12-15$) and buy an awl blade or two that it's actually designed to hold. And like was mentioned, just hone it to the size that you want, and keep it polished on a strop, and lubricated with wax or soap, or some such product, and you'll find that your stitching will be much more professional. We sell all that stuff if you can't find it where you are. Happy stabbing!

Kevin@springfieldleather.com

[Hilly]

Unless you have a Bob Douglas awl... Ask my finger how it knows! Went right through the nail to the nail bed one time! Talk about pain!

Bob's are sharp right from the get-go.

I have heard that the Douglas awls come sharp. Some day I will have to order one from him. Are they expensive, Marlon?

In the meantime, I use an Osborne I got from Tandy, and also, a really fine blade sent to me by another member here, in an Osborne haft I purchased.

[UKRay]

Apologies for dropping in late but I'm with Luke and his four pronged punch. I have a number of very 'fine' four and six pronged punches that work perfectly for me. They mostly started life as 6 or 8 stitches to the inch pricking irons so have already got the right set to make the stitches sit nicely. All I did was take the edge of a slim flat file (I grind the back to make the file even slimmer) to them and extend the length of the tines. It only takes a few minutes per tine to get them long enough. You can then use the tool as either a pricking iron or to punch the stitch holes in fine materials.

As a lad, I was taught to use an awl and pair of clams and still use the traditional methods when appropriate, but to be honest, it is often faster to punch the holes and simply saddle stitch the parts together. I have made several watch straps using these punches and they don't split the leather providing you don't beat them too hard as you make the holes. Always drive into a plastic cutting board rather than wood. It tends to be 'self-healing' and IMHO is easier to work with.

Ray

[bex DK]

I use plastic all the time, but it sure does dull my thonging chisels FAST. Hence my suggestion to put a piece of scrap leather under.

[NewYorkerInSydney]

Hi everyone, thanks so much for your help. So I am going to purchase a Osborne haft. It is between the 142, 143 and 145. I can't really see the difference between them. Any of those a better choice for me or are they all pretty similar? Thanks again. And as far as blade size, should I get the smallest one? You are all very helpful.

Regards,

New yorker in Sydney.

[UKRay]

I use plastic all the time, but it sure does dull my thonging chisels FAST. Hence my suggestion to put a piece of scrap leather under.

I'll bow to your patently superior knowledge...