Stamping Tool B S

[WyomingSlick]

I think we have established that many people are not happy with their experiances with recently made Craftools. I would like to hear how anybody is faring with the newer Craftools that are being made in Japan. Now that they are selling them for $3.33 each I am considering

buying some of the newer patterns.

I still object to Craftools being called "craptools" unless you want to add a qualifier that you are referring to the newer letter-prefix tools and not the older tools made before the mid sixties. As you can see in the atachment, my Craftool waffle stamps do some better in comparison than Bruce's.

I urge anybody who are considering Craftools to make an effort to find some good buys on eBay. There are many good buys there as a lot of people took up leatherwork in the 50s and 60s and many of their tools are now appearing on eBay from estate sales and retirement sales.

[wildrose]

"I'm not in 4-H anymore, I've grown up, and can afford to buy quality tools."

I was never in 4-H (except as a leader), am grown up (at least, I'd like to think so, at 42!) and I still use Craftools. As some of us have stated, it's what we can afford and I've not had a customer complain yet. Come the day I can afford it, I suppose I'll seek better quality tools, but at this stage, I have a 5 yr old son, alot of debt, and thus other things to spend the money on.

[DaCodaBuchan]

I think that I will look to replace my stamps after I buy them. For now I need stamps just to do my work. If I ever make money I'll pour all of it right back into buying better tools to replace my craftools, until then they at least give me the diversity of patterns I need.

[JLSleather]

I was just thinking about this TYPE of thing today. Bought a new strap cutter .... you know, the cheap wooden wingnut type thing.

I have knives, and I could cut staps with a straightedge. But that's time-consuming.

I could have spent $70-100 on the stainless model, but it doesn't cut any straighter (though I'm sure it will wear longer).

This CHEAP wooden model is a compromise, and one I would do again. In fact, since this isn't the first one I've owned, I already DID do it again. I personally would not buy a tool for the sake of having it. Otherwise, I'd have

dies to cut the taper on every belt width (why mess with cutting it with knives)

dies to replace handbag patterns I plan on making more than twice (that WOULD save time)

you get the idea ...

Oh, yeah ... the guy that did my roof last year used a '79 Ford and some pitchforks that looked like they'd been uder the tires at least once. Roof is beautiful...

Edited January 10, 2010 by JLSleather

[crissy]

pondering the pyramids.... it is not the tool it is the creators

[rickeyfro]

LOL You sure do suffer from an extreme case of "Snap-On Fever"!! There is no doubt that a Barry King basketweave that sells for $50 or more bucks does a better job than a Craftool basketweave which sells for $3.33 as of right now. So there you have a case of one tool costing 15 times as much as another. Yes, that cost is justifiable if you are a pro producing top of the line saddles, etc. Is it justified if you are the average guy who makes a few belts, wallets, purses, etc. in a year? No! You mentioned Harbor freight tools. I googled NASCAR and I see that CRAFTSMAN are their pick. Yup, a good tool....but a Craftsman wrench doesn't cost 15 times as much as a same sized Harbor Freight wrench. I have a big toolbox full of Craftsman tools and they are good tools. I also have some beautiful Bonney and Snap-On tools that make the Craftsmans look a bit clunky. And then I have some Harbor freight tools that do just fine for tightening a bolt. But getting back to leather stamping tools. I will not say that Barry King's basket weave tools are not worth 50 bucks. I am well aware of the investment, both in tooling equipment and time, that is required to produce a stamping tool like one of Barry's basketweaves or geometrics. BUT....but the fact remains that for the average guy; he can get a whole handful of tools and many patterns that are not produced by the custom toolmakers for the same money that he spends on a few "Handmade custom tools". And does a $25 beveler from Barry work that much better than a Craftool or a Craft Japan tool? Perhaps.......... that investment is justified for the common tools like a beveler, but what about if you are talking about a seeder. In pic one, I did some beveling, both smooth and checkered, with some Barry King, Ray Hackbarth, McMillen, Craftool, Craft Japan, and one of my modified Craftools that I ground a steeper angle on and checkered. Big differance? No! And to the customer? Even a bigger no! And which seeder, again from differant makers, are you going to pick as the best? And in the next pic - which bargrounder is the best of the 5 differant makers? The big differance to the customer is going to be the overall effect of your tooling which is created 95% by your facility with your tools and your artistic ability. I have looked at a lot of leatherwork over the years and it is the overall appearance that strikes the eye first and not the individual tool impressions. Perhaps it is a good selling point to point to a rack of $25 to $100 tools each to justify the price for your work, but I am sure that what is going to sell it is the quality of the actual work. And that comes from critical evaluation of your work. learning from your mistakes, and striving to do better.

And I will say that for most people's work I see, the biggest fault is their swivel knife work. LOL There is a lot of silly talk that goes on there also. A lot of foolish talk about "yokes that spin for 20+ seconds"!! It takes very little force to turn a yoke on a swivel knife - way less than the resistance in the leather to the turning of the blade. Tons of great swivel knife work has been produced by standard non ball bearing swivel knifes. One of those, matched with the proper leather preparation (casing), sharp and stropped blade, proper technique, and practice...with a heavy emphasis on PRACTICE, will do immeasurably more for your work than some damn ball bearing!

In summation, I will not argue that custom made tools today are not worth the money, and if a fellow has the money, he should invest in some of them. But to dismiss Craftools as "craptools" is totally uncalled for. No, they are not the quality they once were in the early days of the 40s - early 60s but for $3.33 each they will fill many needs for a leatherworker. And many of them, including early day vintage Craftools (No letter prefix) may be picked up on eBay for great prices.

"The use of your tools means way more than the tools you use!"

Here's a question, who is it we have to justify spending our money too? Last time I checked I was free to spend mine on whatever I chose. If that was Snap On Wrenches or Barry King basketweaves that was totally up to me, as is calling something crap if , in my opinion it is. How about posting a few pics of your work so we can see for ourselves if you can get the same result with the craftools...

[Leather Bum]

I think we have established that many people are not happy with their experiances with recently made Craftools. I would like to hear how anybody is faring with the newer Craftools that are being made in Japan. Now that they are selling them for $3.33 each I am considering

buying some of the newer patterns.

I know this is off topic. . . but where are Craftools being sold for $3.33, and are you sure they are being made in Japan? If that is the case, I might seriously consider obtaining some because between the tools I have made in Taiwan and the ones made in Japan, I definitely think the Craft Japan and Kyoshin Elle (also Japan) tools make better impressions.

L'Bum

Edited January 10, 2010 by Leather Bum

[WyomingSlick]

I know this is off topic. . . but where are Craftools being sold for $3.33, and are you sure they are being made in Japan? If that is the case, I might seriously consider obtaining some because between the tools I have made in Taiwan and the ones made in Japan, I definitely think the Craft Japan and Kyoshin Elle (also Japan) tools make better impressions.

L'Bum

Damn, we missed the boat. 5 days ago, most all of their stamping tools were listed at $3.33 and the 2-d stamps at 1.99. I just checked and the price is back up to $7.99. Must have been a sale ( Christmas ??) that just ended. I hadn't looked at their site in a long time prior to a few days ago, as I am primarily interested in the older vintage Craftools (Made before 1962). I would suggest eBay first if you are looking for tools. Look for the auctions that list the tool # as being without a prefix letter. Example - you want a #200 nearly every time over a #B200. They started the letter prefix system around 1963. Around 1967-1968 they added the words "Made in the USA". I suppose this was to separate themselves from the MIDAS and KELLY tools that were being made overseas.

[Hilly]

I've never seen craftools for $3.33, either. All Tandy's craftool stamps are $3.99 for some of the 3D stamps, and $7.99 for most all of the rest. Maybe he's talking about some eBay auction or something.

[D.A. Kabatoff]

Good point Rickyfro! I am, and always will be my worst critic. When I spend hours stamping a fender or jockey or any piece of leather, I see every little detail as it appears and I know what is acceptable to me. I judge my tools by what I see as I am using them and over the years have determined which tools are worth spending more money on. I started with a handful of thickly chromed tools... mostly basket stamps and geometrics that I used once. I had seen the work of good saddlemakers and had tried to imitate their work with the Crafttools I had only to be sorely disappointed... worst money I ever spent. In my case, it didn't matter if I was only going to make one saddle or a thousand, I knew what quality stamping was and it wasn't coming from the tools I had. My first handmade tools came from Ellis Barnes, Barry King, and Jeremiah Watt... even among these tools I was able to see quality differences and numerous times sent back what I thought were mediocre tools, ie. basket stamps that didn't have clean rope impressions or geometric stamps that weren't square enough. Even though I was still making my first saddle and didn't know if i'd ever make a second one, I figured if I was willing to put in the time to basket stamp a whole saddle evenly and straight, then the tools I was using had better be leaving a damn nice impression.

When I started floral carving, tool quality became even more evident and I quickly noticed the differences between poorly designed bevellers that left tracks no matter how you used them, and shaders that didn't have the right shape to achieve the results I wanted, or as Jim mentioned, bargrounders that weren't perfect. It was the same deal, I didn't care the price of the tool ( not because I had unlimited funds... I could barely afford the Tandy tools), or how many times I planned to use them, if I couldn't achieve the results I expected, they were junk, at any cost!

The point to my above rambling is that I have noticed over the years that you can show some people a cantle binding that was sewn perfectly at 7 stitches per inch and you can show them a crooked binding sewn poorly at 4 stitches per inch and they just don't see or care about the difference; The same applies to leather carving, some people don't see or care about the fine details while they are stamping and when the piece is finished, they don't see the whole of their work as looking any different than the next person's work. Stamping tools aren't like a power drill or a hammer where a cheap or expensive version will provide the same final results. Properly desinged tools will achieve better results. In the end, it may have to do as much with the kind of person you are as with the kind of tools you can afford. When I started tooling at thirty years of age, I had a much more refined eye for quality, and determined mind to achieve those kinds of results than most boy scouts or 4H club members.

I've attached a hi-res photo of a rear-jockey frog to give you an idea of what some people expect from their tools. I recently sent this set of bargrounder back to the maker because some of the berries are slightly smaller than others and one of the grounders doesn't leave as deep an impression as others. Some people may not care about this small difference, but I do and you couldn't sell me a set of grounders in the condition these ones were for any price, I'd always pay more for the ones that performed the way I want and that goes for all my tools.

Darcy

Edited January 10, 2010 by D.A. Kabatoff