Product Design

[DaCodaBuchan]

So, I am meeting with a friend in fashion design next week to discuss leather. Yesterday I was talking to another friend about leather's use for topping benches and desks.

I have several sketches in the works for different bags and wallets. All of this made me curious as to how other leather workers (not that I really consider myself one yet) come up with product designs. Do you use borrowed patterns and templates, do you sketch out and design your own stuff, do you have friends in design, or do you just stick to simple stuff?

What are your thoughts and input on design and leather crafting.

Edited January 13, 2010 by DaCodaBuchan

[UKRay]

The whole design process is a struggle when you are trying to keep up with ongoing orders. I tend to design a product for a specific customer, make and deliver it, and then make more of them for inventory. This means the first one is very much the customer's idea with my input making it happen. Subsequent products are more my own.

I'm rather restricted by my poor drawing. I'm not an artist and wouldn't pretend to be one. I'm an artisan, pure (okay, maybe not so pure!) and simple. I rely on real artists for illustrations, line art and the like and content myself with being able to cut a straight line and burnish a good edge. Where I'm going to here is that my design process relies on other people's contributions although the final build decisions are mine.

I do use other people's design ideas occasionally - at least, I look at pieces of work and re-design them to suit my style of working and aesthetics. This is a long and often laborious process involving cardboard, glue and all manner of pins, tacks and staples but it seems to work for me. At the end of the day, I'm making my own patterns for the things I sell and this gives me a lot of satisfaction.

I tried to purchase patterns from other forum users a while back and although I had a few bites, I believe people are reticent about parting with their patterns because they do take so long to develop. I'm still hoping that a bit of hard cash will prompt people to part with their finished designs, but I'm not optimistic.

Right now I have half a dozen design jobs on the bench and have very little to work on. I just know I'm going to sit for hours trying to find the best way to make these complex projects come together and, I suppose, that is one of the skills we develop as competent leatherworkers.

I know you didn't ask this but:

One of the things that makes me most angry about this forum is the way some people assume that others will provide them with free patterns that have taken hours of sweat to develop. It makes me even more angry when they forget to say thank you afterwards.

One of the things I like best is that there are still good-hearted people who will continue to offer help, patterns, advice, instructions and tutorials without payment or acknowledgement.

Ray

[JLSleather]

... the customer's idea with my input making it happen. Subsequent products are more my own.

...I'm not an artist and wouldn't pretend to be one...I rely on real artists for illustrations, line art and the like ... my design process relies on other people's contributions although the final build decisions are mine.... I look at pieces of work and re-design them to suit my style of working and aesthetics...At the end of the day, I'm making my own patterns for the things I sell and this gives me a lot of satisfaction... hours trying to find the best way to make these complex projects come together...

I know you didn't ask this but:

One of the things that makes me most angry about this forum is the way some people assume that others will provide them with free patterns that have taken hours of sweat to develop. It makes me even more angry when they forget to say thank you afterwards.

One of the things I like best is that there are still good-hearted people who will continue to offer help, patterns, advice, instructions and tutorials without payment or acknowledgement.

Ray

Wow, Ray, that sounds so ... European. Maybe it sounded different writing it than it does reading it, but if you read your own post - that sounds like an artist to me.

I don't know any "design professionals", but I have known a few artists (though they didn't see it that way). One guy - Jim - would, given a piece of #2 pencil lead, a wad of toilet paper, and 45 minutes, draw a landscape so real you'd think you could walk into it, except you didn't need to cuz you were ALREADY IN IT. And Howard - aka "Curly" - could play a 6-string acoustic guitar all day and never use the same note twice (at least it seemed that way to me) and in my opinion should have abandoned that labor job for a concert hall.

I develop my point further ...Much has been said, and rightly so - about Mr. Al Stohlman. Al's books - there's some beautiful work in there. While I think Mr. S. had a legitimate desire to aid other crafters, the bottom line here is that Al made REALLY good money, for a long time, carving someone else's leather for discussion more than for practical use. Perhaps worth mentioning, he got paid BECAUSE the distributor knew they could make money by "subcontracting" Al's work (and disposition).

THEREFORE ... I think it's good for the guy who is learning to carve, bevel, and shade to use these "patterns" -- in the sense that you then have something to compare your work to. But I also believe that most are too "stuck" on the pattern ... I know it shows a V400, but use the 404 if you like that look, thus adhering to the principle with your own preference. Craftaids are a good example... I've known guys who had - well - I think ALL of them. Maybe they're collectors? Personally, craftaids are only beneficial if I have 10 of something to make, which rarely happens.

To your other point ... some folks are just rude. I used to have a bunch of these "my idea" things ... police say to forget it, my "ornate" doorknob precludes a good finger print. More than the money ($300 US for the new beveled glass in the door) is knowing that it will take hours and hours to replace them. Some of those books and tools probably found Ebay, but those designs and the computer back-up probably wasn't any good to anyone but me ... now THAT'S rude.

Personally, I LIKE to see other people using my ideas. Infrequently, it's like mine and I gained nothing. Usually, though, it's either not as good as mine (meaning I helped someone) or it's made better (meaning I haven't "arrived" yet and need to continue to improve), either of which is good for ME. Much of the time, I have customers who want to see a book so they can point and say I want that one

FOLKS,

if you need a picture of a horse - go to google search and type "horse pic", you'll have more than you know what to do with.

if you need a design, layout, construction that isn't readily available - show some consideration for the person who has it - may be payment, an exchange of ideas, or a simple thanx

keep in mind, that when someone helps you, it may be more in spite of you than because of you. I run the snow blower down the neighbor's sidewalk EVERY time it snows. He's a rude obnoxious jerk, and it's cold out there. I don't want to do his because I know he has 2 snow blowers but figures if he leaves it long enough I'll do it for him. He does say thanks when he sees me, but in the end he EXPECTS me to do it again next time. Perhaps one day he'll find out that it has nothing to do with him ... the mail lady who comes down our street is dating my buddy, and I clear most of the block FOR HER. Boy, does he get woke up when she gets a new route ...

But, it's wonderful to talk about helping each other, long as we all act like a bunch of kids in the school yard ... (No YOU go first, no YOU go first, No you... ) That said...DaCoda ... still have your address, send you some PRACTICAL stuff on Monday.

[JLSleather]

Oh, yeah ... one perhaps more concrete note: If I'm making a purse, at ALL, I am already copying SOMEONE ELSE'S idea.

Wallets and belts have already been invented. If I change the tooling, I'm still in someone else's business.

[jbird]

A very good topic, it seems somehow we have hashed over this about half dozen times, but let me say this and I know Ray he is a great guy and a good writer his post was very good and detailed, but for me there is no harm in asking for a pattern I think it helps grow the "craft" lets not go in to that deal.

I would say there are those hew don't give a dang about the craft they just want to save money there hackers, they have no talent no hope of gaining knowledge and further more they don't care.These are the folks I think should not be given any patterns or help, that having been said in my struggle to reach the top I have been helped by so many good people, Ray, Bruce Johnson, Luke hatley, Holly, kate, Mike (twin oaks) I was able to work out patterns with john bianchi A great guy. And now I make my own patterns I love working patterns and having the fulfillment of doing it my self. all that having been said if someone shows a real true desire for the skills and craft I will help all I can and they will understand that and thank you for it but a sure sign of a greedy person is no thanks at all just great I got it now get lost buddy. So I guess I am saying there are leaches and there are budding artisans I will help the later any time.

Josh

Edited January 30, 2010 by jbird

[Luke Hatley]

A very good topic, it seems somehow we have hashed over this about half dozen times, but let me say this and I know Ray he is a great guy and a good writer his post was very good and detailed, but for me there is no harm in asking for a pattern I think it helps grow the "craft" lets not go in to that deal.

I would say there are those hew don't give a dang about the craft they just want to save money there hackers, they have no talent no hope of gaining knowledge and further more they don't care.These are the folks I think should not be given any patterns or help, that having been said in my struggle to reach the top I have been helped by so many good people, Ray, Bruce Johnson, Luke hatley, Holly, kate, Mike (twin oaks) I was able to work out patterns with john bianchi A great guy. And now I make my own patterns I love working patterns and having the fulfillment of doing it my self. all that having been said if someone shows a real true desire for the skills and craft I will help all I can and they will understand that and thank you for it but a sure sign of a greedy person is no thanks at all just great I got it now get lost buddy. So I guess I am saying there are leaches and there are budding artisans I will help the later any time.

Josh

[JLSleather]

I agree, too. Hope I didn't say anything that made it sound otherwise.

[CitizenKate]

I use illustration software to develop my designs. That way I can adjust lines, play with shapes, move things around to see how they fit together, and so forth, without having to start over. Then when I think I have a workable design, I can print it, cut out the parts and use them for prototyping.

The program I use most of the time is Adobe Illustrator, but I also use Inkscape (which you can download for free), and it works just as well for my purposes.

Kate

[JLSleather]

Personal observations, tips, and a list of the tools to do it.

All in 3 lines.

[King's X]

Well say! There is very little in this world that hasn't been invented, so I say drove on.

I usually find things around me (in everyday land) that inspires me to create them in leather. It could be a fabric purse, wallet, handbag or widget. I always ask myself, "what would this look like in leather?" I will also see things that are made of leather and wonder how it would look like with a slight change here and there or sized down or a portion cut off here. For instance, I found a "sling-bag" or "man's bag" and thought to myself that I wanted to make something like that? I don't know why, it is still sitting in work area done? It just looked like a good design and came out too purdy to deploy.

I also look around the internet, books, magazine and such for other ideas? I believe that real artists call it "inspiration?"

The man bag that I completed is not called the Baird-Smith bag, not MY bag. Why? Because the design came from a F.O. Baird floral pattern and the saddlebag that I tweeked came from Jesse Smith (I did ask him for permission to bastardize his pattern, and he said okay, anytime!), even though it was eventually 'I' that did the work. Just because we see a picture does not me we steal the design. I believe that we 'steal' the concept and there is a difference. What we see as a picture is an idea of what we would to design and make.

But,

We have a crafter/artist/maker on this forum who posts something and says "here is my newest creation," but it is "copyrighted" or something like do not remake than we should honor such request. To go a little further, I believe it is 'our' duty to the rest of the member that had the honor to see this design to make the artist known if it is stolen and used by another person. It is our non-legal way of keep the battle lines even. We are the protectors of our craft/hobby/job/living.

Now, my final remark about 'stealing designs.' I don't believe that most crafters (not stealers) will take a product and copy it to the inifinate degree, but I do not believe it is possible. Hey, as much as I try, I cannot come close those swivel cuts, tool impressions or moreover the total outcome of the designs. But what I dislike the most is not given credit to those that may have simply posted it for us to have a chance to take it on.

I have a bunch of ideas & projects in a book that I carry. Eventually, they will become a reality, but way down the road and I will be willing to share every single one of the designs to be bastardized by all! As it stands, this is my hobby and as such, it is not my main bread winning job. Unfortunately, it take oh, about third seat in my life, so things are slow to getting around here. Eventually, I get them out for ALL to enjoy.

Here is my disclaimer. If you see what I have done, would like to do it the "way I did it?" Hell, go for it, but it would be nice to see my name around somewhere between the hello and the dyeing part.

Thanks.