Braiding Books

[roo4u]

hey all i have been looking at braiding books on line and without being able to see the content am having a difficult time deciding on my next purchase. i have all three of bruce grants books and can do all the knots and braids in his encyclopedia. would like opinions on what would be a good purchase to further my skills. i would love to be able to just take some instruction from a master braider but that is not an option right now. so if anybody has suggestions or critiques of the available books id love to hear them. thanks

[KnotHead]

hey all i have been looking at braiding books on line and without being able to see the content am having a difficult time deciding on my next purchase. i have all three of bruce grants books and can do all the knots and braids in his encyclopedia. would like opinions on what would be a good purchase to further my skills. i would love to be able to just take some instruction from a master braider but that is not an option right now. so if anybody has suggestions or critiques of the available books id love to hear them. thanks

Tom Hall; Purchase link Seller: Martin Combs Click Here

Books By Tom Hall; All prices USD...

INTRODUCTION TO TURKSHEAD KNOTS by Tom Hall $28.50 - (Instructions for many different types of turksheads, Casa, Herringbone, Headhunter, Gaucho, Barcus, etc. a very good book)

Tack Tips by Tom Hall $27.50 - (How to make your own horse gear, hackamores, bosals, fiadors, etc. lots of knots in use in the instructions)

MORE WESTERN TACK TIPS by Tom Hall $27.50 - (More info on how to make your own horse gear, but the knots shown can be used for more than that, some of the new knot info includes , the headhunter's rosebud knot, sennit rose knots, boxcar knots, if you like Tom's other books this one won't disapoint you.

The Turkshead Workbook by Tom Hall $14.00 - (A good book to accompany Intro to TH Knots)

Another great Author is Ron Edwards; Here's the link to the Ram Skull Press Site (International Ordering)

Books to get from them;

• Round Knots and Braids ( Spiral Bound ) $80.00
• Interesting Braids and Flat Plaits ( Spiral Bound ) $80.00

Some really great material in both all of these listed books. All of the books are illustrated.

Another good one to look for is Robert Woolery - Braiding Rawhide Horse Tack. If you google that one you should find a some where that will sell it. That should do you for a good start.

Brian...

[lilpep]

TOM HALL !!!!!!!!! i second KNOTHEAD on this issue. get the tom hall books before you spend money on anything else. you can leave out the turks head work book if you want but westerntack tips and more western tack tips have ALOT in them. intro to turkheads is great to learn pinneaples and variations that is the meat and potatoes of this book, it has more on other knots that are usefull. as for Ron Edwards books i really am not a huge fan but dont knock em either i guess i'm neutral about him. Edwards has a leather worker aproach to some of his books and has projects. i have Bush leather work and bush craft 8 as well as advanced leather work round knots and stuff but like he mentions in the beggining it is not geared for the begginer. for the money intro to turk heads is going to help any one improve alot more than this book will. well looks like i'm blabbing alot. theirs my two cents <BR><BR>PS.  Martin Combs is also one of the best sources for R E books. he is in the states and is cheaper most times than ordering from the Ramskull press. 

Edited January 31, 2010 by lilpep

[jerryrwm]

hey all i have been looking at braiding books on line and without being able to see the content am having a difficult time deciding on my next purchase. i have all three of bruce grants books and can do all the knots and braids in his encyclopedia. would like opinions on what would be a good purchase to further my skills. i would love to be able to just take some instruction from a master braider but that is not an option right now. so if anybody has suggestions or critiques of the available books id love to hear them. thanks

Grant's Books are a must have.

Tom Hall's are right there also

Robert Woolery has some good info

Gail Hought's books have some excellent resources.

David Morgan has excellent tips and hints on basics.

Ron Edwards books on Whips and Turks Heads and handle coverings are loaded with info

Also editions of "The Australian Whipmaker" available through the Australian Plaiters & Whipmakers Assn. published originally by the late Ron Edwards.

Dennis Bush has a good primer on whipmaking.

Do searches and you can find some of these books out there.

Edited January 31, 2010 by jerryrwm

[roo4u]

thanks for the replies folks. i was looking at the books by hall the other day. i was also considering the hought books...any opinions on those? worth the price?

[lilpep]

for about 60some dollars you ca get the Tom Hall books compared to about 1 one of the other books. i have only seen the index of the the other books so i can say how they are in fact but the index didnt show ANYTHING !!!! that any other book i've seen. and let me tell you i have ALOT of books in both spanish and english. western tack tips and more western tack tips have IN DETAIL explanations for bosals and reins as well as LOTS and LOTS of headstalls with measurements and maaaaannnnyyy designs. the briding content and buttons are far more supperior than any other book i've ever seen. Hall didnt just learn from Grants book and then rewrote some of it in his own words. he was actally a great knotter and braider who collaborated with the late George Shaake. his understanding and expertice are far above most people. he also shows some tack in strap leather just as a bonus and also has alot of stitching patterns. as for intro to turk heads is concerned if you can find a better turkshead book let me know so i can buy it. after this i dont think i have to explain any more where i stand. their is no comparison between both authors in my opinion. Hall !!!!!!!!

[entiendo]

I have all of Gail's books and I love them, couldn't do it without them, but I just met another braider that hates them. She said she couldn't follow her directions until she had the basics down. I guess it depends on how you learn. When you told me you learned from Bruce Grants' books I was very impressed, I couldn't even tie the alamar knot with his directions, so I bet you could learn from Gail's books easy. Just be sure to run through the index to be sure she has something to teach you. I really think they are devoted more so to the beginner. To bad they are so darn expensive!

[lilpep]

roo4u sorry to keep butting in. as i read again you mentioned you can tie all the knots in Bruce grants book. i over looked that particular detail which is very important i think because it gives insight to how much you know allready. definetly dont waste your money on GH books like entiendo said they are "so damn expensive". since i take it you are pretty familiar with turks heads and all the braids that are common amongst braiders, then you will love intro to turks heads. dont let the title fool you it has basic stuff but will open your eyes to ALOT more. the buttons section in more western tack tips is something you will love also. Hall teaches the basics and progresses to more advanced material in a manner that is easey enough to follow. the ilustrations are good and im sure you will find them interesting. from the begining of these books you will notice he is an intelectual and more than just a braider he had a great understanding of knot structure and theory. the great thing is even though he has a great understanding of things his "recepies for knots along with ilustrations lend themselves to beginners(i know you are not). i just have alot of good to say about him and his books. if you need more info read the comments that Martin Combs has on his website and if you want give Martin a call he is the nicest guy you will ever meet. infact Martin is more of a decorative rope/knoting kind of guy and a retired service member, he uses intro to turks heads alot and recommends it aswell. enough i think i may be over doing it. sorry

Edited February 1, 2010 by lilpep

[rawhide1]

lilpep

Tell us how ya really feel!!!LOL

I have Grants books and some of Houghts. While I've found Houghts books easier to follow I've also learned a great deal from Grants. I think a person can learn something from every book they read. While some are easier to follow than others they all offer something. I'm looking forward to getting the Hall books although with a youngun due in two weeks it might be awhile before I can. Interesting topic it's good to see which books work for everyone.

Mike

[Bevan]

Well I have a few books, Ron Edwards , Grants , and GH bosal 1 and 2 , now for those of you that have the bosal 2 book, i ask you to follow the destructions and see if you can do the 8 bight heel knot , keep an eye on the book , remember you have bought this book to learn !!!!! page 31 should slow you down a tad.

I look forward to the comments back on this one!!

I also am waiting on 3 Tom Hall books to arrive so i am happy i have come across this post , very interesting !!

Cheers for now

Bevan

[entiendo]

Beven, How funny!! I have that book but I don't have time to do a 8 bight heal know with her instructions, I'm dying to try now though. I suspect there is a mistake or 2 there. There are other mistakes in her books as well. I was just showing someone how to braid a few weeks back and we had to go over all the instructions and correct the mistakes. Just one or two but it does make a difference. They are still good books though.

[Bevan]

Beven, How funny!! I have that book but I don't have time to do a 8 bight heal know with her instructions, I'm dying to try now though. I suspect there is a mistake or 2 there. There are other mistakes in her books as well. I was just showing someone how to braid a few weeks back and we had to go over all the instructions and correct the mistakes. Just one or two but it does make a difference. They are still good books though.

Hi there entiendo

you are right they r good books once ya fix the probs , plus her lace size has to be fiddled with too mate , lucky i have a lace cutter resizer , beveller , when i cut the strings for the 16 plait overlay on the rawhide core !!!

Plus there is more , i have emailed Gail to let her know about page 31.

You never know i just might get a romal reins book for my services , lol

Toodle poop

Bevan

PS

So I suppose if you buy a book to help you , and the books are on how to make a bosal step by step , book by book , and back again to the one you havent got but now must buy ,i think you should have a good chance to acheive that , but if its not correct in the first place , and you have to rescorse info from others then i think those book didnt quite make the grade, for me I wont be buying anymore to see what i have to fix !!! there ya go now thats my bitch for the moment, lol but roo4u you make up your own mind i am sure all book help.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Bevan

[roo4u]

well thanks all for the continued input. i am looking to increase my knowledge beyond just being able to braid the basic knots so i believe i well give the hall books the first try, thanks lilpep for your critique. i really like the look of ghs braiding but am looking to go past beginner so her books may not be the best for me anyway. wow many mistakes in her books...i guess she didnt proofread them...though ive found a mistake or two in grants

Edited February 2, 2010 by roo4u

[lilpep]

now let me tell you how i really feel !!!! hahaha no not really i think you made the best choice. i have a thing with people who reply to an email i sent to them and they reply my website will have the info you need, when the point is i had to ask becasue i couldnt find that info on the page. but any way haha you will definately like the hall books. just to change the pace a little i think i should mention that alot of braiders at some point in time we want to learn more and look for the book that will help us learn that little bit extra, i noticed that manny people including myself get stuck with the saem herring bone and pinneaple knot and the same 8plait and so forth. i would recommend every one to look into rope work and all those sailors knots and stuff. invest in the Ashley book of knots and take a gander at it. learn structure and technique not just ovrs and unders (recipies) when you do this a 4,6 or any size pinneaple dont matter casue its just two extra bits. i my self did alot of research in places like KHWW.net brian is a great guy and their is alot of info in his site. the pinneaple knot forum.com and other yahoo groups that deal with knotwork are a great resource. and the best part is ITS FREE !!!!

well take care all and as soon as i get home i will show something off just so im not a name. later

[KnotHead]

Well here's my deal with books.

I have a crap load of books for leather braiding and a crap load of books for knot tying (more for fancy stuff). I have found the books I use the most are,

Tom Hall - All of the books for continued reference.

Ron Edwards books.

Robert Woolery book.

I continually go back to these books for reference when I need to, especially when involved in a project. I like those 3 books because they all got me into studying the actual structures of every knot I make. By paying close attention to the details of the knot structure I am better able to see a knot someone else made and backwards engineer it, or get as close to it as possible.

I also study The Braider publications because AG Schaake and JC Turner go into greater detail on the actual construction of a knot, or braid. A little more complicated than the average reader will want to get into. But it all boils down to how much passion you have for this fabulous art.

I have other publications by AG Schaake, JC Turner and another person I can not remember right off the top of my head. There were 3 individuals at the start of those publications. But peoples ego's tend to get in the way a great deal when it comes to being a math geek. Those publications then lead to The Braider publications.

Interesting factoid; Tom Hall is not actually Tom Hall. It is just his publishing name.

Like with all other people, each person learns differently and at a different pace. Most, I have found tend to not get into the math details of the braid or knot. My partner who is deceased now, did not like all the math behind the braiding and knotting, but he sure could tie and braid beautifully. He hated to do math. I used to hear him say, " Well shit on the math. I'm gonna figure it out anyway." He was a stubborn man and a great friend of mine. However, there is a lot to be said about the old school days of braiding. In those days you did not have books to refer to for help. The only thing you had was the one teaching you and your own ideas and resolve to solve a problem. I for one enjoy having a braiding mentor who enjoys braiding as much as I do and the concept of books is nothing new to him. But, when my mentor learned the craft of braiding, he was in the old school days. That man can tie any type of pineapple knot around any type, or shape of object you could come up with. He does not use a mandrel to tie with either. He ties all his knots in hand, or fingers (The old school way). Now if you ask me for my opinion, that's real skill.

Brian...

[roo4u]

well i wish i was lucky enough to have a braiding mentor to learn from...i am in god forsaken nebraska where the folks have mostly forgotten anything to do with their western heritage. no other braiders in my half of the state that i know of....i am not able to travel at all right now. but i learn very well from written instruction and so i will continue my education through the th books. I can already do as many bights as i need on foundation knots but run into trouble trying to do multiple interweaves or interweaves that vary from the standard recipes. have stumbled upon doing interesting things with my knots but then cant duplicate. its funny i hardly use mandrels either i either do them on the project or around my finger depending on the size. ive made dozens of little pineapple knots around my index finger. im sure i have lots of bad braiding habits from not having a mentor...oh well. yes lilpep i visit various websites regularly to dig for info... taught myself to do aussie style braiding patterns and how to graph them out by visiting an aussie braiders website last year.

[KnotHead]

Hey roo.

The way I see it, there are no bad habits in tying string, or lace. Just picking bad hides to tie it from. I think that every mistake I have made in braiding and tying knots I have recorded on paper in a note book. I know that all of those mistakes will come in handy some day. But for now, it shows me all the ways that I could not do a knot or a project. LOL...

If you tie on a mandrel, that's not a bad habit in my book. I use a mandrel for very large knots and I use one also, to discover a new knot that I have never tied before. The mandrel can serve as a way for you to examine the knots you tie. A scientist uses beakers, or a microscope for examination of a particle, or chemical. Well, to the braider/knot tyer the mandrel serves a similar purpose. Me when I see a knot I want to get to know really well, I will tie it by way of ghosting the knot with a piece of string that is smaller. Then I will tie the actual knot from a reverse working of the original in string, then double it, then tighten it down a tad bit, then put some spray Neat-Lac on the knot to harden it up. Once dry I take the knot off the mandrel and then cut it in half and then draw a grid on grid paper of that knot that I just cut in half. This way I can really study the knot and the characteristics of that particular knot.

Well take for instance a Fiador Knot of just about any type. Get a good picture of the basic Fiador in your mind. Did you know that 98% of the Fiador knots that are tied come from tying a two strand bosun, or diamond knot? The basis for this comes from a study I conducted on the Fiador knot. The instructions for tying the Fiador can be a little intimidating for a beginning tier, or even one that is at the intermediate level. Even a Mathew Walker Fiador knot comes from the same beginnings. Weird eh? or Fascinating?

You know what even more funky? The common divisor table. You can tie a gaucho knot on a 5part 4bight TH, but when you expand the 5x4 TH to a 7part 6bight, now you have a bight count that is divisible by 3 and 2, so the gaucho will not work out right on the bight count and structure leaving you with a single double color on a bight count. I know, stupid eh? But when you start building your own knots and projects, planning them out as you see me do here, you will save yourself soooo much time and headaches.

Well nough of my ramblins...

Brian...

[entiendo]

I found out that gaucho thing the hard way...hours, and hours invested and then I realized it didn't work out right.

[roo4u]

hey knothead...i didnt mean to say that using a mandrel was a bad habit...just one of those things that bg mentions in his books that i found i didnt really use...i also dont use a fid...im sure that purists would be horrified but to me its easier when braiding a knot tight from the start to use a lacing needle. i have a shoebox with cut off knots in it...when im doing something that doesnt work or i think i missed a step but cant find it i cut them off on one side so i can open them up and look at the inside to see what i did wrong.

havent done any detective work on any knots yet.. dont see alot of braidwork or knots round here and what i do see are the commercially produced stuff with just the basic knots on it...easily recognized stuff ya know.

and the stuff your talking about with the formulas and what you can and cant do with what foundation knots- thats the part i really want to learn so that i can go beyond just reading the instructions in some book but to really know, to have a really sound foundation of braiding and knotting knowledge.

the thing about the fiador knot is very interesting...but when you really think about it you have to realize that all knots are just variations on certain basic knots...i saw a fellas website recently where he claimed to have a copyright on his braiding...and that he could braid something unique and original that know one else would ever have one like it...he just braids standard standard basic braids and knots...his statements raised my hackles...people have been braiding for probably as long as there have been people...im sure more has been forgot about braiding than we currently know.

[KnotHead]

Yes you're right about more has been forgotten than what is known today. At least that's the way I see it also. There are just too many combinations that can be done from a basic knot to count really. It would seem that history would show itself more boldly as far as knot tying and leather braiding goes.

However, on that note; you will find an extensive history with the Chinese knots. They have some serious history documented and some with photos. The oldest of those knots go back to a time when there were no cameras. So, the documented knots are in illustrated format. While it is not known just how old knot tying, or leather braiding actually is, it is still an avenue that must be traveled in great detail in order to find and learn what has been lost. It is also very evident that we need a way to keep a record of what has been done in the now for the future generations. Truly, without passionate artists such as ourselves and in combination with all those who learned their craft in the old school days passing on the heritage to us, the Art & Craft will certainly die.

Nough of my ramblins,

Brian...

[KnotHead]

Well all. I stand corrected on the 7part 6bight gaucho knot. My bad mistake as a brain fart on my part for looking at it the wrong way. My bud here George showed me up with an exemplary show and tell sit down. With a few beers in us he proceeded to explain the rules behind it. My brain was thinkin the other way persay.

The 7part 6bight gaucho can be tied. I will also upload an image of this later example tied by lilpep.

Now I need some gasX to get rid of the brain farts I had.

Brian...

[KnotHead]

Here's a run list for those interested in the 14part 12bight Gaucho Knot.

First a photo so you can see how it will start. This knot is on the presumption that you have already made your 7part 6bight casa knot. If anyone has tied the spanish ring knot you will understand that each bight is a progressive bight and should progress forward of the standing part and should be realized that if one is not careful and watchful in the making of this knot that the working part will slide under the standing part making your progressive build come out wrong in the end result of the knot.

Photo time;

Run List; Where R= Right side and L= Left side when interweaving holding the knot in a horizontal fashion.

and O= Over and U= Under.

There are 10 half cycles to this interweave.

Start

O2 this includes the standing part

U1 - TO THE RIGHT.

O1

U1

O1

U1

O2 DONE WITH THE FIRST HALF CYCLE

2nd half cycle going to the left. With the working end,

U1

O1

U1

O1

U2

O2

DONE

3rd half cycle going to the right. With the working end,

U1

O1

U1

O1

U2

O2

DONE

4th half cycle going to the left. With the working end,

U1

O1

U1

O2

U2

O2

DONE

5th half cycle going to the right. With the working end,

U1

O1

U1

O2

U2

O2

DONE

6th half cycle going to the left. With the working end,

U1

O1

U2

O2

U2

O2

DONE

7th half cycle going to the right. With the working end,

U1

O1

U2

O2

U2

O2

DONE

8th half cycle going to the left. With the working end,

U1

O2

U2

O2

U2

O2

DONE

9th half cycle going to the right. With the working end,

U1

O2

U2

O2

U2

O2

DONE

10th half cycle and final run to the left. With the working end,

U2

O2

U2

O2

U2

O2

FINISH. This finishes the interweave. Now find something to put it on, tighten, tuck and dress it up.

This correction came from a meeting I had with lilpep here at my shop where we proceeded to have some beer together and talk shop. Thanks lilpep.

Brian...

[rgerbitz]

Just got Tom Hall's Western Tack Tips yesterday. I haven't really dived into yet. But just from flipping through it, I wish that I would have gotten this one first.

Rob

[lilpep]

Just got Tom Hall's Western Tack Tips yesterday. I haven't really dived into yet. But just from flipping through it, I wish that I would have gotten this one first.

Rob

yep yep i had the same thought Rob. you need to get more westerntack tips also it has great button knots and alot more stuff , and dont forget intor to turks heads. it is way !! more than an intro.

Brian (knothead) no need to thank me. i didnt come up with anything special. and FYI for all the others if you repeat the run list and increase everything by one you can make it a three pass. take care ya'll

[FlatWaterCowboy]

I am really dissatisfied with the Hought books. They are too expensive and they do things the hard way, in my opinion. I would not waste my money on them.